Ninjukai

[rubinherring]

Hi, i was just writing a thread because ive read what people have said about martial arts they claim to be fake, the masters to be frauds or anything disrepectful like this. I think that they are taking the politics into martial arts and spoiling them, arguing and making assumptions about people and clubs is just stupid, the art i have joined called ninjukai taijutsu is great, u say that Shihan Ang is a fraud? What would you know, our art covers every possible scenario, attack, and is great for anyone to learn, the art is based on the ninja when they lived in the mountains and truly lived up to the name ninja which means "practitioner of harmony" the trained for balance in life equally developing the yin and yang of their body and mind. The art wa moved to malaysia because of the war recently and the americanisation of martial arts in japan which some of us know has ruined some martial arts today, our orgonisation is a non-profit organisation and our fees go to our club building and for training purposes. The belts are for a reason, so the level at which a student is distinguished easily and something to aim for in training aswell. Ive heard that in bujimkan that you are sometimes given belts as a birthday present?and that some 5th dans are in their twenties?and that u are taught weapons from the start?and that some are double graded or more to get people to train harder?In my opinion you should earn your belts, you shouldnt have such high dans in an early age, because most arts you get your 1st dan in a very hard, long grading and usually get to 5th well after 30if your lucky!Our art has alot of people training and they love it, our Shihan always starts the class off, and has a big involvment by what i see. Also you say that their is no proof of our art in history, well if im correct Hatsumi and Keyes claim that the ninja didnt record any history nad that the samurai where the historians, the great enemy of the ninja?Well i think this is very stupid because i hear of practitioners of bujinkan sayin oh your art cant be traced, ours can our masters says so?Well i think everyone should be quiet if your going to argue becasue i know my art is perfect for me.
Bye

[dragon_bunny]

Originally Posted by rubinherring

Ive heard that in bujimkan that you are sometimes given belts as a birthday present?and that some 5th dans are in their twenties?and that u are taught weapons from the start?and that some are double graded or more to get people to train harder?

there are the clubs were think are bad because of the reasons you say not that all ninjutsu is bad and fake.

In my opinion you should earn your belts, you shouldnt have such high dans in an early age, because most arts you get your 1st dan in a very hard, long grading

True enough but age isn't what matters it's the length you've been training and how good you are. Are you saying that if someone who is a natural at the art and is good enough to have a 1st dan in a few years that their grade isn't as good as someone who isn't as good natural and has taken a few years longer to get to the same grade?

Well i think everyone should be quiet if your going to argue becasue i know my art is perfect for me.
Bye

fair enough. but as far as i knew i wasn't arguing

[hatsie]

yep i wonder who lit a fire under his bum? i checked out that site ages ago, when the thread which style are you from, or something, i spent quite awhile looking at it, a nd i have to say i thought it was pretty cool. they seem to do a lot of good stuff, as in for the benifit of others in the local area.

i think the instructor is a good person, and if i go to perth i would definately be checking it out. however the techniques are clearly not of the takamatsuden arts, and as this is the only credable style to have survived (imho) it is not ninjutsu in the true sense of the word. even if it was another ryu ha, i doubt very much that it would not still be taijutsu related. where as that school would appear to use karate type skills.
this does not mean that school is 'fake' though i don't think, it makes a lot of people happy and they learn much. the only bad point i found on that site, was the fact the head instructor seemed to feel the need to display an article written by an australian instructor, which was very negative to the bujinkan. i wonder if he was aware of the irony of that article, relating to the 'pathetic ease' at which grades are given away, that the author actually asked for a judan, without a japan visit, training etc.
isn't life wonderfull

dazza

[DaemonLlama]

I do ninjukai too and originally thought it to be a true ninja art, but this was before I really knew anything about ninjutsu (and by ninjutsu I mean Hatsumi/Bujinkan). When I learned that it was an indie I was a little disappointed but I got over it. But to say John Ang is a fraud (not saying anyone here has, but others have) is wrong because I realised that I wasn't bamboozled or lied to. It mentions several times on the website that 'ninjukai is NOT ninjutsu'. The art tries 'to resemble as closely as possible to the training of the ninja from the 8th - 12th century'. Note the word 'resemble'. It makes no claim to ancient lineage.

What helps, to my mind, is that the art was started in 1924, WELL before the 1980's ninja craze, and that it's run by a not-for-profit organisation.

I scoured the site the other day and picked at all the information provided there to come up with a few conclusions about the art. It's quite long so I won't post it unless there is interest. rubinherring - I'll pm it to you if you want.

[Krum]

Headbands? Camouflage gi? No thanks.....

[Krazy5051]

our orgonisation is a non-profit organisation and our fees go to our club building and for training purposes.

awe, Bless.

As for yor belts and grades, they don't mean anything. It doesn't matter what martial art, belts and grades equal the amount of time you have spent lining the pockets of your instructor. The higher the ranking, the bigger sucker you are. Soon as you encounter a situation face to face, where is your grading and belt and knowledge then? Nowhere! Too busy trying to work each other out in routine and sequence and before you know it your on your ass wondering why? Where is your instinct that takes your knowledge and ability and puts them into play automatically? Everywhere, as you stand with arms folded smirking at your loser of an opponent.

Yours in martial arts,

Kid.

[Saz]

Originally Posted by rubinherring

our art covers every possible scenario, attack

Sorry, but you can't train for every possible attack scenario, simply because real fights are highly unpredictable!

[Krazy5051]

our art covers every possible scenario

With words like that,
I could defeat your most advanced student and sensei.

Yours in martial arts,

Kid.

[Kalifallen]

rubinherring, happy you like your art that is all that truely matters.
Don't know if you actually have trained for every scenario but I'd say you have the main points down.
Belts don't matter. Rank don't matter. Certificates don't matter. You are the only thing that matters.
I'd say your art is modern ninjutsu. Kind of reminds me of Kurai Kotori (www.warriorquest.com). They do basically the same thing that your art does. Study the whole medieval ninjutsu, go all training camp on you to get the full authentic effect. I mean, come on. You're going to have to train outside sooner or later.
Yep, like the whole hours long grading thing. It really shows all the stuff you have learned. Of course, age should not be a factor. It is all about what you can do and how you do it.

Also, I know no one said this, but I think you should ONLY get certificates for dan ranks. Maybe even 1-3 certificates for kyu. Like you'd get your first after you past all the beginner stuff, then the second for intermediate stuff, and lastly the third for 1st kyu.

[dragon_bunny]

Originally Posted by Kalifallen

Also, I know no one said this, but I think you should ONLY get certificates for dan ranks. Maybe even 1-3 certificates for kyu. Like you'd get your first after you past all the beginner stuff, then the second for intermediate stuff, and lastly the third for 1st kyu.

may sound kinda shallow but i really liked getting a certificate for my 9th kyu and a new belt.. think because it was my first grading ever and i was so proud i passed that i wanted something to show for it. don't mind not getting a new belt until my black belt but i think i personally was inspiried to carry on when i got the grade, i might not have been if i didn't have anything to show for it.
Like i said i'm kinda shallow that way thou

[Kagebushi]

hey, it doesnt make you shallow. you just find happiness in little things. if you thought you were better than a beginner because of it, that is shallow.

[dragon_bunny]

nope i'm happily aware that i'm one of the worst people in my dojo but hey i can only get better

[Kalifallen]

I understand dragon bunny, but I think it should be optional. Or something....

I don't know how many Bujinkan dojos do this but if it is part of Richard Van Donk's then it is mandatory to pay for the certificate. If you don't you can't take the test for the next rank. Now, I think that is a little mean. Besides that, I don't really feel like keeping a scrap book full of 8th-1st kyu certificates, but that's just me.

And, nope, you're not shallow. I mean, everyone loves to show off what they can do. Whether it be actually doing it or showing off a certificate or trophy. Besides, when you learn something hard and you are actually able to do it a nice little prize always makes you a little bit happier.

[SilentNightfall]

::Sigh:: Okay, time for a little rant... Lately there have been a few things on the 'net that I am just so tired of seeing. One of those things is the indie organizations such as Ninjukai Taijutsu complaining about the flak they take for their art. Do I feel any sympathy whatsoever? Absolutely not. I am of the thinking that if you don't want to be ridiculed for being an indie Ninjutsu organization, then simply don't be one. People claim to train in the "spirit of Ninjutsu" in their art, but tell me...is this even possible if you are not using techniques that follow the philosophy of the Ninja? I don't believe so... People whine and cry when we ask for proof of their claims, but is that not a reasonable thing to do when researching an art's credibility? If an art doesn't claim to be real Ninjutsu fine, but why claim any link to Ninja or their martial art at all? Skill and ability should speak for itself. Most often, claiming any sort of link to the Ninja is just a ploy to make more money. To Rubinherring, you have your facts mixed up about the Bujinkan. Hatsumi-sensei and others may have said that samurai and the ruling class wrote Japan's history and thus why the Ninja may have had much misinformation about them passed around; however, we are still able to prove our claims to our lineage through the scrolls of the various ryuha. No other organization outside of the X-kans has offered any such historical or verifiable proof as to their authenticity. As a side note to the end of this portion of my rant, I pose a simple question. How is it people can claim to train as the Ninja of the 8th-12th century did when the leaders of these organizations have no ties to any true schools of Ninjutsu and thus have no knowledge of any sort of Ninja methodology?

Now, onto the ranking issue. First of all, no serious practitioner has ever been given rank for their birthday or any such instance to my knowledge. People who do not train in our oganization have been given honorary judan gradings simply out of friendship or to recognize an accomplishment of that individual. But such honorary rankings do not give the person the right to instruct and have never been wrongly used by anyone to go out and start their own school to make money. To your other comments, I will tip my hat to dragon_bunny who made the comment about individuals who really pick this art up quick and have the skill necessary to pass the Sakki test. From personal experience, I also believe that people gain skill faster in this art than any other I have encountered before simply because we are only really learning to use natural movements. It shouldn't take someone 30 years to be able to learn to move naturally and in a relaxed manner, or so I believe.

Onward to another point... Is there really a problem with us learning weapons from the beginning? Weapons are only an extension of yourself and also fine tune your taijutsu greatly. Yes, they are harder to work with than empty-hand techniques in most cases, but this makes no difference. Weapons training helps to form a good basis in taijutsu. In fact, there really isn't that big of a difference between empty-handed taijutsu and taijutsu with weapons. I certainly had no problem learning to defend against knives, use a sword, or twirl a rokushaku bo within my first four months of training, so why do you find it to be such a big deal? Is it because your art, or most other arts for that matter, do not follow the same pattern? By now I would have thought that with our different approaches, ranking system, etc. that people would have realized the Bujinkan will never be anything like other arts. Oh well...

Final thing... I am just overly tired of seeing people on the internet talking about how much better they are than those that don't train the way they do. Honestly, I have nothing against Ninjukai Taijutsu and I would not claim to be able to defeat their most skilled practitioner, yet that claim showed up in this thread, as do similar claims in many others. I think if people dropped their egos, stopped caring what other people say about them, and just trained, the 'net would be a much better place of discussion and learning for all of us. Heck, I haven't cared about what everyone says about the Bujinkan since I started years ago. I just know that what I train in works and that I enjoy it. If someone else disagrees, I'm not the person to prove them wrong unless they want to put my life in jeopardy or the life of someone I care about. Bottom line... Don't take people who talk badly about your art seriously and don't respond to them in anger. I post what I do just to be informative and not to argue with people. Hope this lil' rant hasn't been offensive to anyone.

[Ryoku]

I agree with you SilentNightFall, and rubinherring why is a bad thing to train with weapons from the start. As far as I understand arts like Eskrima begin training with weapons because it allows empty-handed techniques to develop more naturally.