Chiropractic - Discussion of Legitimacy

Hi, I thought I'd start this thread so MAP members could freely discuss their experiences with chiropractors and the arguments for and against their practice.

First of all, I am strongly considering entering a Chiropractic college in less then 4-5 years (right after 3 years of preparatory classes at a junior college which I will enter next year). The reasons why I consider Chiropractic as a career are A) I want to be able to work with both athletes and regular people, and I want to be able to take care of and medically advise my martial arts students. B) I want to be self employed. C) The pay is good.

The last one may sound shallow, but I have to keep financial security and whatnot in mind. I plan on teaching martial arts, and I want to be able to provide my students with a great place to train, great equipment, and great prices. The more I earn from my primary career, the less I will have to charge my students. I'm not willing to sacrifice my integrity for money, though.

Moving right along, Chiropractic as a career of its own is not that important to me. It's the ability to work with people and help improve their lives, to work with athletes and help them fulfill their athletic goals that I want in a career. Whether it is physical therapy, sports physiotherapy, or something similar, I really want to be able to do these things.

I was first considering a career in sports medicine, but I read that it does a lot of work with

This argument/discussion thread will hopefully serve as an educating experience for everyone involved and will help me discern my career!


The Question:

Is Chiropractic Legitimate? Is it effective or is it a hoax?

The first thing I will bring attention to is written by Paul Ingraham who is a message therapist.

http://saveyourself.ca/articles/reality-checks/does-chiropractic-work.php

 

I train in a gym full of a lot of great powerlifters who swear by chiropractors. My wife goes occasionally, though I never have. I probably should, my one shoulder is rising faster than the other in my deadlifts.

In short, yes to effective and legitimate.

 

The noun is "chiropraxy".

 

Moosey - Actually, I believe the proper noun is "Chiropractic."

 

The way I understand it is that "traditional" Chiropractors are pseudo-scientific rubbish, however many modern chiropractors include real medical knowledge and practices such as massage and exercise in their work.

And I don't think there is anything shallow about wanting a job with money, kind of important, as long as thats not the only reason.

Have you considered other alternatives such as physiotherapy?

 

If you want to help athletes, become a Physiotherapist. The effective Chiropractic techniques are borrowed from physio and medicine, so why learn all the other junk that Chiropractic is associated with.

I associate Chiropractic with Scientology. Sure, they're right about some things, but that doesn't mean they're not making a lot of stuff up.

 

Here's a link from a guy that knows what's what when it comes to medicine and evidence based medicine.

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1867

He has a number of entries on it.

Do a search and read up on the Simon Singh libel case. When Singh criticised the british Chiropractic association (for promoting bogus treatments) they sued him. He has since won his case because essentially the BCA realised Singh was absolutly right and dropped it (after producing laughably scant "evidence" that got soundly savaged by skeptics).

Together with Edzard Ernst (mentioned in the first link too) Singh has written a fantastic book called Trick or Treatment. I'd suggest picking it up.
Chiropractic does not come out well I'm afraid (the only alternative therapy that does is Yoga!).

Chiropractic is founded on a very shakey foundation.
That foundation being that EVERY malady, problem or disease is caused by the spine being out of alignment (subluxations I think they call it) and throwing out the bodies "innate intelligence" (basically chi or life essence by another name).
From that start much pseudo science and just plain making stuff up has followed.

Well done you for doing some research while you are young though Patrick.
At least this might save you wasting your time training in a bogus modality.

 

Yes, I'm reading about it now. Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the recommendation. That matches up with what I've been reading.

 

Thank you, PASmith. I appreciate the help.

I'll continue my research about Chiropractic. I will also read about Physiotherapy. It may turn out to be the most direct route to my goals. Even if Chiropractic has certain aspects of it there have merit, if Chiropractors are widely distrusted as phonies, it could hurt my reputation and credibility as an instructor to be one.

 

I don't know about every malady stemming from misalignment, but I know that finding a good chiropractor has helped me a lot. I've got a really jacked up L5, and if I don't go to my chiro for an adjustment at least every two weeks, it's guaranteed to go out in a very bad way.

That said, it took me years to find a chiropractor that I trust, who I believe is not a quack.

 

Two things Patrick, try to decide where you want to practice, I know you are in the south, up here in the north we are saturated with DC's. I know a couple who have moved 2-3 times because there are so many practices opening. Make sure the community you choose is accepting to DC's. Some are and some aren't, do some research.

Personally, I've been in the medical field for 28 years and about 15 years ago was in a bad, bad car accident. I had chronic neck and shoulder pains for over two years, different MD's would just do injections, pills, musculoskeletal therapies, nothing helped. One finally gave up and said to go to a DC, in six weeks my pain was gone, full movement restored of the neck. I don't think DC's are a cure all, but then neither are MD's. They have their place...

 

Agreed 100%. We actually have a chiropractor who just opened up a practice in our BJJ school. He's a blue belt at our school, is a chiropractor and also does the Sports Science Lab stuff.

 

Ok so first when considering efficacy or validity of chiropractic the question of how much you can earn being a chiropractor should be set aside because it is irrelevant. It can pay well but so can being a homeopath or a TV vitamin pill salesman and this has no bearing on their validity as medical systems.

I'm not saying that the issue is irrelevant to you, or that it isn't something to be taken account of, just that it bears absolutely no relevance to the issue of validity. So you should take care to distinguish the two.

Now in terms of validity- the original theories behind chiropractic 'innate intelligence' and 'subluxations' have now been completely discredited by modern medicine. Palmer the founder of chiropractic was a magnetic healer and claimed that ALL illness could be treated by spinal manipulation (including things like deafness!) as well as arguing just before his death that chiropractic should be reorganised into a religion with him as the leader. His son took the profession down a marginally less crazy route but the fact remains that the foundation of chiropractic was an anti-scientific philosophical/religious ideology.

Chiropractic today as a result is a very mixed profession with two major groups: mixers- who do spinal manipulation and a bunch of other dubious treatments (magnetic healing etc.) and straights- those who primarily use manipulation (although even this group has divisions). The only group that explicitly focuses on evidence based treatments are a minority of practitioners who are identified as 'reform' chiropractors.

None of that means that people won't get benefit from going to see a chiropractor or from getting chiropractic treatment. As we know the placebo effect is powerful (see homeopathy) and from detailed reviews we know that spinal manipulation can have some effect on alleviating back pain. The problem is that chiropractic treatments have proven to be no better for back pain than most other therapies (including massage/physiotherapy) and there is no reliable evidence that they have ANY effect on any illness other than back pain.

So this leaves chiropractic in the following situation:

1. There is NO evidence for most of its claims.
2. The profession is philosophically/methodologically divided into extremely polarised camps with diametrically opposed views on what chiropractic is.
3. The evidence for the ailments it can effect (i.e. back pain) are no better than any other mainstream therapy.
4. Many chiropractors promote and act as primary care providers despite not possessing the qualifications or training to diagnose and treat most ailments.
5. Chiropractic is notoriously hostile to critics and overall practitioners tend to promote an anti-science/modern medicine agenda.

If that sounds harsh... well it is. But it also true. I've spent more time than I care to admit researching chiropractic medicine and interacting with chiropractors over the past year and while I think that the practitioners are, by and large, sincere individuals trying to help people, I also think there grasp of what constitutes evidence of efficacy is extremely shaky.

Overall, I think if you want to go into the kind of field you are discussing you would be better going for physiotherapy OR in a pinch osteopathy. Osteopathy is in many ways the same as chiropractic and it comes from similar dubious origins but the difference is that osteopathy has in recent times increasingly come closer to modern medicine and restricted some of its more outlandish claims. So yeah, chiropractic will allow you to help people and make good money too but in terms of being an effective treatment or based on solid principles... afraid not.

Facing up to practicalities isn't shallow. However, if your integrity matters more than money then I suggest that you will have a hard time practicing chiropractic if you actually do the research and look into the evidence for it's claims for how it is supposed to work and how effective it is claimed to be.

 

I lived next door to a chiropracter and he must have been one of the "reform" bunch as I never knew him to treat anything but muscle aches from slipped discs and other skeletal injuries. Until fairly recently I had never associated chiropractics with anything but this so reading this sort of info a few years ago was a bit of any eye opener.

 

One thing that really worries me is the root of the Simon Singh case where Chiropractors were claiming they could cure croup in babies with Chiropractic.
An adult manipulating a babies spine!
I wouldn't let a Chiropractor manipulate my babies nappy contents.

That's what happens when you trust feelings and hunches over evidence and common sense.

 

Just to add to what CKava said, I was really gun-shy regarding chiropractors for many years, as my initial experiences were extremely negative. In addition to a lot of quasi-scientific stuff, there was a kind of cavalier attitude taken toward manipulating my lower back. After 8 months of very regular chiropractic manipulation, my back was worse than ever.

 

Not just croup- ear infections, bed wetting, colic, asthma and prolonged crying. Truly shameful!

And boards> I know what you mean. I always assumed a chiropractor was simply a medical doctor who specialised in backs. I only found out in my early twenties what it was actually about. There are though decent folks in the profession and it's just a shame those who value evidence aren't in a greater majority.

 

CKava - Thanks for the super post!

I understand. I added that because I felt that it was relevant to my explanation of why I was considering Chiropractic in the first place.

My uncle, who is a chiropractor, actually recommended that I consider Osteopathy when I first mentioned my interest. I looked at it, but at the time it didn't look like something that I wanted to do.

I know that, and integrity does mean more to me then money. I would not be comfortable or happy practicing a medical profession that was not medically and scientifically proven and that did not give my clients exactly what they needed. Plus, I don't think I want to become a member of such an split up profession. I know there are divisions in almost every career, but in something that appears so shaky as Chiropractic already does, having the professionals in the field disagreeing with each other at every twist and turn would make it even worse.

That is shameful, but not surprising considering DD Palmer's ego. I'm not surprised that he thought he had found the ultimate cure for illness. He sounds like an extremely arrogant and egotistical man.

Kwajman - I've known quite a few people who had positive life changing experiences with chiropractors. On the other hand I've read about quite a few people who've had very negative experiences with chiropractors. I would be interested in seeing how many of the positive experiences were with what CKava calls 'reform' chiropractors. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a lot.

PASmith - I read that article by Dr. Novella. A great read! Dr. Novella writes in a very concise manner and argues very logically. Thank you for the link. I also want to read 'Trick or Treatment' by Ernst and Sing, but my library system doesn't have it. Maybe I can get it some other way.

>Patrick

 

Steven Novella is awesome. The Skeptic's guide to the universe is a great podcast too.
I'm not sure "Trick or Treatment" has had a US release? Both author's are based in the UK but it's well worth reading.
Also good is "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre. Can't remember if it covers Chiro specifically but it's essential reading if you want to know more about how we fool ourselves and can be fooled by others when it comes to health.
There really is a wealth of information about alternative "medicine" out there.
It's truly eye opening how shakey things (like Chiro, homeopathy etc) really are once you start getting beyond the widespread (but usually erroneous) public perception.
Most people don't really know for example that homeopathic "remedies" (I love quote marks!) don't actually have any substance in them. I wouldn't be surprised if many homeopaths don't know that either.

 

Singh and Ernst's 'Trick or Treatment' is one of the best non-fiction books I've read- no joke. It is very engaging, very well informed and very readable. I give it two thumbs up- (and being the incredible geek I am, I've got my copy signed by both of them ).

Also, Patrick I think you are really going about this the right way by researching your career before jumping into something. It is a heartening sign because most times people make a decision then look for the evidence to support that decision. The claim about treating children was from the British Chiropractic Association one year ok btw so Mr. Palmer's influence has lasted...