Swings and Roundabouts

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Nick Mandilas, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. Nick Mandilas

    Nick Mandilas Resistance is an option..

    I have had a lot of people ask me via PM, Facebook and skype to clarify my viewpoint in regards to Bujinkan training, why I cross train etc…so I thought it would be better for me to just post it openly on the forums and leave it open to discussion and of course (constructive) criticism;

    When I first started training with Craig Guest I already had some experience with martial arts and fighting as many of you know.
    For those that don’t, I had spent some years learning a form of freestyle martial arts from a guy that had mashed a core of karate with a small amount of Judo and western boxing. It was walking distance from my house (my parents didn’t have a car) and only 3 dollars a lesson back then (about 28 years ago when I started) which was exactly my pocket money back then. Like many people in the 80s he masked it at the time under the brand of Kyushin Ryu Ninjutsu and as a kid, without tools such as the net to verify what he was claiming to teach, and without another Ninjutsu school to compare techniques in, I believed in the product he was selling and joined up.

    For a number of years I trained earning a high rank and thinking what I was learning was quality. Back then classes consisted of a gruelling cardio warm up (to this day I must grudgingly admit that no class - be it Muay Thai, BJJ, Bujinkan or boxing - has ever worked me as hard as those guys used to), some very basic two man drills (block vs punch, grab vs sweep etc), then the last half of the class was committed to medium to full contact, bare knuckle sparring. Looking back, he wasn’t creating good martial artists, he was just creating poorly trained but highly pain tolerant brawlers.

    In my teens, I discovered that the style was a sham. I could go into how I found out, but it is long winded and a story in itself so I’ll leave that for another time, but suffice to say I was shattered and embarrassed and when people asked me what I trained in, my reply would be “Karate”. I hate to say it but I eve used to do that when I first started coming on to the forums.

    Many years passed and I did not train in a dojo. I had a friend that trained in Golden Lion Wushu. Another that did Zen Do Kai karate and another that studied Judo. Sometimes we would mess around together, or I would just be their training dummy, but most of the time I just stuck to weights and cardio. Up until this time I still believed my martial arts training was quite solid. I worked for a little while as a bouncer, I managed to hold my own. And so still I believed that my training was solid. I felt invincible.

    Years passed, I got married and the new job kept me away from the gym. My fitness was dropping. I felt something was missing so I decided I’d take up some training again. On the way home from work I noticed a sign out front of a leisure centre in a suburb by the name of Fitzroy saying Ninjutsu. Curious I went in to see if it was the same schools I had attended.

    It wasn’t. the sensei’s name was Richard Cootes, and the school was headed by Wayne Roy. I watched them train. It was very different I thought I’d give it a try. I stayed with them for a while, but because of my previous experience with such heavy handed sparring I felt the training was too soft and that some of the students were heavy handed in kata, which was silly because as uke you could not retaliate… nothing against the school, it just wasn’t for me.

    My wife got pregnant while I was training there and with the arrival of my first son, having so much fun as a dad, I kind of forgot about training for a bit. Not too long later my second son was born and I had my hands full… then one day both boys were at an age were they were inseparable, playing together and I kind of had some free time on my hands suddenly. My fitness wasn’t all that great. My knees were starting to ache and my doctor suggested I took up martial arts, saying that the deep stances would strengthen the muscles around my knee… My wife suggested I start training again also.

    Near my house – about a 5-10 min walk there was a sign out front of a brick building that just said “Karate” I thought what the hell, I’ll go take a look. And to my surprise, it was a Bujinkan school with Craig as the instructor. I chatted with him for a while and took a liking to him instantly. I watched a class, the training was not hardcore but his teaching method was very good and he was always pointing out potential openings, and his distancing and timing, his flow and counter striking was flawless. I decided to give it a try.

    That was probably about 6 years ago, and a lot of things happened since then. Which brings me to this post

    The first thing that happened was a bubble burst for me. As I said earlier, I really did believe that dude to my previous “hardcore training” that my crap didn’t stink when it came to martial ability. If someone told me my training was crap or that Bujinkan training in general didn’t work I was quick to defend it. I attended my first throwdown and as discussed before, was overwhelmed. At the time I think I was only 4th or 5th kyu. In reality what happened was that from a Bujinkan training viewpoint I had still only started to understand the techniques I was being shown. I wasn’t ready to use them effectively yet. From the viewpoint of my previous training, yes I could take a beating and yes I could hit pretty damned hard, but I was outclassed by those around me, who had not gone through their years of training just slugging it out with a core of basics blocks and strikes…their teachers had fuelled their training with thought, concepts of tactics, counters and transitions.

    I felt like nothing was working for me.

    I felt very down at this point. Part of me wanted to get good and get good quick. Part of me wanted to quit. I blamed my Bujinkan training! Was it because there was very little sparring? I was 5th Kyu goddamn it! I ignorantly thought that I should have been better by that stage!

    I talked to Craig about it one night after class, I shared my thoughts and feelings with him. After spending so much time on forums and seeing the reactions of many Bujinkan instructors, I thought he would get mad, or defensive or both. Instead he told me he had felt like that many times, that it was swings and roundabouts…you learn something, as you improve at it, you doubt it, you want to pressure test and spar with it to see if it works, then you realise you need to refine it so you go back to it’s origins and you start to learn it again…full circle. I didn’t understand. I just wanted to do some sparring.

    So Craig adjusted his syllabus. He added pressure testing and light sparring to his classes, and created a class that was just dedicated to sparring and pressure testing on Monday nights. I was in heaven. I didn’t think much of the pressure testing (drills that added movement, resistance and random distance and timing) and just hungered for the sparring…I became sparring mad.

    Two of our higher ranked grades attended…both nidans…and to my surprise, they could hold there own in sparring very well. They moved incredibly…and for the first time I was surprised. Here were two guys that only sparred occasionally and yet they could spar quite well. Why was this? What was their secret?

    I attended another throwdown and did much better. We hosted two additional throwdowns at our dojo. There were very good events and all those that attended from others arts (BJJ, MMA, Judo, Muay Thai, Kung Fu, TKD) went away with a much better understanding of BJK training and techniques. I have managed to use many Bujinkan submission holds against skilled martial artists where many, even people from BBT who I admire greatly, told me I would not be able to apply against someone resistant (is it because I drill them against people that resist?...I don’t know).

    A firend of mine taught a muay thai class, he asked me if I wanted to train with him on Monday nights. I liked the idea and gave it a try. I have found it to be very interesting for a number of reasons. For one it is a great workout. Two it has awesome ways of closing the distance against very realistic and fast strikes to get me into clinch range and three, the muay thai round kick has to be for me the best way to execute a roundhouse kick. Funny enough, I thought that every class would have sparring, and yet it was not the case, as there was more pressure testing.

    A guy I work with studies BJJ and he offered to roll with me very Friday night after work. We brought matts in and have them in the store room. I get an hour of training in BJJ every week, with striking added into the mix. This has taught me so much about transitions on the ground and learning to be calm and focussed when there is so much chaos around me.

    These two additional training sessions in different styles have made me look at my Taijutsu from a whole new angle. I can see its strengths and its weaknesses. I can see that BBT is a very good style that just needs to be trained a little different to help students understand these strengths and weaknesses a lot faster. To be pressure tested with random attacks. To be drilled with faster counters, to drill more on basic counters against blocks and kicks in real time, real motion and real speed, and not just focus on kata all the time, like attacks that need to be a little bit more realistic at times so people get to drill techniques at different ranges and distances, but most of all I have come to realise that sparring, while still a very important tool, doesn’t need to be a nightly event to make you understand how to use your art.

    Craigs classes can be like this, and I am thankful for it. Every class I learn something new. Every class he keeps me on my toes. Last week I went to strike him in real-time with no stepping in punch and suddenly found myself on my head from a front foot sweep I never saw coming. This is why I am training with him. The skill in him is apparent. I have so much to learn from him.

    But what is funny the most is now, 6 years later with a fresh shodan around my waist and a lot more fight experience in three arts under my belt, I finally understand what Craig means when he calls it swings and roundabouts…I have learned much, and I have improved on it, I have pressure tested and sparred with it to see if it works, and now I realise that I need to refine it and improve on it, so I go back to it’s origins and have started to learn it again…full circle.

    Hope that made sense and helped understand why I say the things I say and feel the way I feel
    Nick
     
  2. Dhalsim-on

    Dhalsim-on Banned Banned

    Multiple thanks and nobody feels the need to add anything. The sign of a classic post!
     
  3. zenpokaiten

    zenpokaiten Valued Member

    I agree, great post Nick.
     
  4. ShadowHunter

    ShadowHunter Living the Dream

    Took a while to read but, in the end, it was worth it.
     
  5. Devil Hanzo

    Devil Hanzo Doesn't tap to heel-hooks

    My own history is pretty similar.

    See? We're not so different. :cool:
     
  6. Nick Mandilas

    Nick Mandilas Resistance is an option..

    Thanks guys. It's much appreciated.
    I have had a few minor queries on my above post and I guess its because there are a few notes I forgot to add for clarification; I was going to edit the post but I'd rather put them here.

    *The first is that one of those nidans, a man that I admire greatly by the name of Gede (pronounced Gid) attended the second throwdown and while he did have to put up a epic struggle when taken to the ground by some of the submission fighters, his stand up was an awe to watch. Its an amazing thing to hear MMA practionters, one of them a muay thai coach and MMA instructor say "Geez look at that guy, he moves like a cat!" or "wow its like his ice skating around his opponent"

    Gede's taijutsu is one of the smoothest I have ever seen, and his distance and timing is amazing and before that throwdown he had sparred very little. His mindset on training is always with a viewpoint on reality with a deep and practical understanding of what constitutes a realistic attack however and this can be the key difference to what makes him such a good martial artist.

    *The second thing is that I don't want you to be under the impression I no longer spar or pressure test. This is not the case. I just do not do it as often as I had originally thought I needed to. I also need to mention something I call "fight filters" because a few people have asked me what I mean these last 2 days so I'll clarify.

    When you spar or do pressure testing drills (Randori/henka), you get an understanding of what techniques work well, what works poorly, what techs you must execute quickly under the element of surprise to pull off successfully and what techs you can fool your opponent to walk into. For this the kind of creates a "fight filter" when you go back to training your drills/kata...You are shown something and the back of your mind is now saying "thats not going to work against that type of attack" or "if I do that against that type of attack, I'm going to have to watch out for that right leg"

    Make sense?
     
  7. khetienn

    khetienn New Member

    Nice post Nick,

    remind me next time you see me to tell you of a sparring session I had with Gede once, a few years ago. Was an interesting experience. Craig filmed it too so you might be able to have a look. Not sure if he kept it though, was a while ago.

    And it's not a secret why they can spar without ever doing it before. Just watch them train. :)

    James
     
  8. Nick Mandilas

    Nick Mandilas Resistance is an option..

    Hi James,
    yes I know. and while I haven't had an opportunity to see you spar, I see that same smoothness in your weapons work.

    As I said to Craig once, its like I have come to the point I am in my taijutsu from a different angle to you, Gede, and Matt. We'll all get to thesame point in the end I suppose. Of course, you guys are a lot better than me...so it will just take me longer.
    Cheers
    Nick
     
  9. skuggvarg

    skuggvarg Valued Member

    Thanks Rubber Tanto for the interesting read.

    I think were on the same track here but I want to point it out anyway.

    Ive had similar experience where as a newbie I learned the basics and even though I did them 1000 of times over the years I didnt really grasp the essence. At that point however I thought I did and as a result I then "stepped up" training by trying to make the basics work against more realistic attacks, pressure testing, sparring, and so on. Ending up modifying them because I just couldnt get them to work. Feeling quite good about myself I then got my cold shower and wake up call when going to Japan, finding out that my basics had been twisted by my own ignorance and bad comprehension of the art. Coming home and starting to practise the "old way" again with an understanding that the art did not change over the last 20 years, it was me who did! I should say I needed 3 trips to Japan and some seminars with Dr Kacem Zoughari before I could see more clearly...

    For the record, I have always trained in Dojos who put a strong emphasis on kihon training. Even so, we drifted of over time.

    Regards / Skuggvarg
     
  10. Dhalsim-on

    Dhalsim-on Banned Banned

    Any chance we could get the video footage mentioned posted online? I'd like to see cat man :)
     
  11. snake_plisskin

    snake_plisskin Valued Member

    Excellent, comprehensive post, with really specific detail and some outstanding examples. I loved the phrase "ice skating around his opponent." What a cool image.

    --Snake
     
  12. khetienn

    khetienn New Member

    Not sure if I'd feel comfortable posting footage of myself online even if Craig does still have it.

    There might be some of the throwdown with Gede in it if he's comfortable with that. Nick might have that footage.

    James
     
  13. Lily

    Lily Valued Member

    Nico!!!! That was a soul-baring post, thank you for posting it and sharing your experiences. Come set up a training centre in Sydney already!

    I recall the maturity and the no-BS way you took to the mats, it reflects the depth of your experience and your learnings too. I recall being quite demotivated about JJJ when I came to the Melbourne TD, feeling that so much of what I did was not pressure-tested and also feeling the shackles of the dojo 'family' mentality. You guys inspired me to continue and get my shodan that year and then branch out and try BJJ, Judo and MT which I've had a taste of in the last 18 months. Similarly I'll never write-off my JJJ training and realise there is much that I can learn and re-visit and learn again in this journey.

    Gede...I got to roll with him. Thank god I didn't do stand up with the guy :) Say hi to him if you see him. He was all class.
     

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