[Freestyle/Sporting MA] Opinions...New "light MMA" style for Karate etc

I would like to see something like this get started. I would love to hear your opinions on rather or not you like the idea, if you think it will work or any other suggestions you may have to improve it. The idea here is generally to have an avenue of sport available for those that wish to compete in a safer environment than standard full contact MMA and enjoy the corrolary benefits of improved longevity in the sport etc. Stuart Anslow, I'd love to hear your feedback if your out there.

Freestyle: Method of safe point fighting involving integrated grappling
and striking in a moderated (semi) contact setting. These events will take
place on Tatami or cushion mats. Divisions are for all black belts and
intermediate/advanced adult belts.

Points are scored per standard point fighting technique. The fighter with the
most accrued points at the end of one 3 minute round is declared the winner.

3 seconds are allowed after a striking technique to engage an opponent (either
attacker or defender)-(defense strikes are not allowed) and initiate a grappling
sequence. One center judge calls the point for either the red or white designee
as it occurs and the fight continues until the judge calls a stop. During this
sequence strikes are no longer allowed.

Once standing grappling sequence initiates, 10 seconds are allowed to work for a
lighting fast takedown. A successful takedown defense awards the defender
(either fighter) 2 points. A clean takedown awards 1 point. A takedown which
appears sloppy and lacks good technique is awarded a half point. All standard Judo
throws and MMA throws are allowed, i.e. the shoot, single and double leg
takedowns (knowledge of break falls is strongly recommended).

Upon successful takedown, 30 seconds are awarded for groundwork (no striking
allowed). Submission results in 3 points and fighters are stood up to continue.
No points are awarded for groundwork not resulting in a submission.

These events should serve as a celebration/gathering of formerly nonintegrated
traditional styles such as Hapkido, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Kung Fu, Chi’Na as well as
affording an opportunity for contemporary MMA fighters to compete in a safer and
less damaging sport with an increased longevity of competition. Additionally,
this allows Karate, Tae Kwon Do and some Kung Fu styles an opportunity to
enhance and reward their takedown defense which should be helpful to their
respective, mostly stand up style of fighting. *Approved attire includes
Middleweight or Heavyweight Gi’s. Elbow length sleeves, Advertising and Logos are allowed on attire. Headgear is
optional. A no gi is division is optional, however, only shirtless and skin
shirts are allowed.

 

wouldn't it be better to eliminate all the multiple threads & throw this in the general discussion forum?

 

most mma sparring (not comp) is fairly light contact anyway. Intergrating a point system will over complicate things and be detremental the whole spirit of "more realistic training"

Imho of course.

 

I see problems with semi contact strikes vs takedowns.

 

You've put some thought into this! I think something of this sort would be fun and I'd love to try it out. Judging would be a nightmare, but competitors would have to put their egos aside and say, "These rules are in the spirit of promoting safety and fun. Don't whine about losing because of them."

And I think it would work because a lot of the traditional styles emphasize discipline in competition where you don't bitch to the referree.

There is, however, a problem with it. Takedown defense is partially created by putting the fear of getting hit really hard. I've sparred in this sort of fashion with really good grapplers and there is a tendency for them to say, "I just would have taken that kick/punch and secured the takedown..." One of them later got kicked in the head with a technique that wasn't pulled as much as it should have been. Not only did it put him down he had to miss a week of work because his eye was swollen shut. Tough guy too. He competes regularly in MMA matches.

My point is that by controlling the strikes (to semi/light contact) the natural tendency is for the rules to heavily favor the grappler. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. If the goal is to learn and have fun it is fine for the rules to favor one or the other specialty.

One other thing...30 seconds is not a lot of time to get a submission. Speaking from personal experience it can take a long time just to work past someone's guard before you even start thinking about a submission. Plus if there were only 30 seconds there would be a tendency to use delaying tactics (closed guard and holding onto the back neck of his gi and just holding on for dear life). Again problems like this, however, might be unavoidable. You can't create a perfect system so sometimes you just take the best rules you can get and enjoy the ride...

 

Why award points for a successfully take down defense. The opponent would just get no points. Frankly I would award 2-3 points for any takedown as takedowns are harder than strikes. Also a submission should end the match just like a ko. Also need to add at least a minute for the submission as they take a while to setup if you cant use strikes on the ground. You are weighing it to heavily iin favor of the striker IMO. Of course I am an ex-karate guy know who does bjj so I have my prejudices

 

how come you've posted this in umpteen areas? lol!

 

Why bother with rules - the OP doesn't bother with them anyway - multiple posts cut and pasted together on 3 forums at least.

 

I think you are a little too late for the MMA 'lite' deal. There are already lots of rule sets and events set up for people who want to get their feet wet.

There is Sport Jiu Jitsu http://www.sportjujitsu.com/

Pro-Hapkido http://www.pro-hapkido.com/

Pankration http://www.fightleague.org/home.html

Not to mention Shidokan or Daido Juku.

In any case, I still think it would be cool if someone would start another series of events possibly within driving distance of me. Perhaps you could contact one of the above organizations about getting started?

Your 3 point submission rule needs to be changed pronto.

 

Hate the idea TBH. Whatever you might call it, you shouldn't call it MMA. Here in Ireland we have a very success amateur MMA circuit for those who don't want to compete in pro rules MMA. It still maintains the full contact element but is safe and fun. Instead of me going on more about you can find out more at www.mmaleague.com it's actualy where I started competing in MMA myself. And yes as the TKDist I was then I made all the same arguments some of you guys might make now!

 

Your right, takedowns are very difficult. Takedown defense is equally difficult against a good grappler. The general consensus so far has been to award points for the defense. However, you have a good point. Maybe the points could be equal for either.

Point taken on the submission. Been hearing a lot of that too.

Also getting a lot of different feedback on the time allotments.

Thanks for the ideas

 

I'm glad you pointed that out. Your right, part of a good takedown defense is Power KO shot on the button. Considering this is set up to be semi contact, this becomes useless. So everything is based on the ability to sprawl or counter throw etc. It makes takedown defense more difficult and that is, in part why were looking at awarding points for it. If I was a grappler, I'd go to this tournament, eat my one light karate style shot, then take my opponent down and choke him out. I'm trying to even the playing field somewaht given this consideration.

 

That MMA league is pretty cool, sort of like the pankration and pro-Hapkido rules over here in the states (no head strikes). Except the pro-Hapkido doesn't allow kicks below the belt either. Which sort of limits where you can strike and is basically an invitation to get your kick caught. If they know it can't go high or low then it would be pretty difficult to 'set up' a kick.

But I think these leagues are a great way to allow people to compete on a more amateur level with more safety in mind. I wouldn't mind trying it out, but every tournament I've found is far away.

Strangely enough things like this are harder to find than a full MMA match! There are no shortage of small-time MMA fight promoters looking to fill their roster (and their wallet) with people who will enter the cage for no money! I've got friends/training partners who do that and they are constantly getting last minute calls from promoters trying to fill their upcoming card.

 

This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. Don't get me wrong I am sure you would get a load of points fighter entering and subsequently claiming they were MMA fighters but the event its self would be a joke.

If you want to fight MMA in a safe environment there are loads of armature MMA events around that allow this, by not allowing head strikes in stand up or on the ground and not allowing many other dangerous techniques. And these events are supported by lots of great fighters and are very safe and controlled.

But a point stop MMA (if you can even call it that) event sounds way to McDojo for my liking.

 

Too bad. The amateur format is a great way to get people involved in the sport. It's how most people get started here, do the league for a year then maybe a few semi-pro fights (no head shots on ground) and then pro. I think it's a great way to help improve the standard in fight shows actually as people aren't just thrown into a ring or cage with no experience.

Come to Ireland!

 

I have to agree it sounds terrible, just use the amateur MMA rules that are already common. If people are too scared even for that then they need to find something else to do. Like knitting. The idea of anyone being able to proclaim themselves as an MMA fighter is a bit of a slap in the face really- the guys who get in the ring and throw down for real make a lot of sacrifices and put in the hard yards for what they do, people need to either man up and reach that level or not. No halfway semi contact bollocks.

 

2 points -

1 - The whole idea of MMA having "no rules" was to remove any rule-specific advantages to any particular group that competed. Amateur MMA is already skewed in favour of submission grappling by removing strikes to the head both standing up and on the floor. Remove the full contact element and you've further skewed it to the grappler. Make the strikes semi contact and you've tipped hte balance in favour of the striker as the grappler has no chance to "eat" a shot or two. In short it's a no-win situation.

2 - Despite their difficulty level takedowns should not be scored (in any form of MMA) as they have no value in themselves - unless it involves a slam.

I applaud your thoughts on this but I don't see it working. Ju jitsu kumite is quite close to these rules (does it even exist anymore?) but again it's not MMA in any recognisable sense. And as has been mentioned before, referring to anything like this as MMA is doing a disservice to people who actually compete in MMA

 

Throws and takedowns are allowed in traditional karate kumite anyway. It's a good way to win a match outright.

As someone else said, there's also Kudo, which combines kyokushin karate and judo rules.

 

I agree with your first point, most MMA 'lite' type rules favor grapplers. But I do not agree with not scoring takedowns. Especially if the takedown lands you in a superior position (side control, standing above your opponent). I don't think that throws should decide a match but they definetly need to be given value.