Look what i found I typed in Koga Ninjutsu in the Wirral and found this link... http://www.loopylove.com/profile.cfm/screenname/1116207 took a screen capture......same guy? I wonder who his Bujinkan Instructor is?
Garth said:- And I've told you exactly how to get hard evidence. Speak to the same people I did. Ask to see the items in question. Couldn't it be argued that you yourself have already acted without anything tangible, with no physical evidence and on nothing more than the unsubstantiated claims of this individual? You were quick enough to do so when you saw an opening against the Bujinkan. When it turned out that you'd been misled, you at first tried to backtrack and then obfuscate and now you're trying to pass the buck on to the Bujinkan. Garth said:- I have no intention of posting any of the emails here or indeed elsewhere. It would be unethical and indeed against MAP's TOS. Garth said:- That's true enough to some degree. This person's claims have been investigated by myself and others and have been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be nothing but ridiculous. He has failed to answer even basic questions and failed to provide even basic evidence to back up his claims. And even your own command structure has previously given instructions regarding this individual - confirm or deny? Garth said:- What makes you think I am interested in talking to this person, especially after the way he has tried to misrepresent himself, his history and in doing so, impugn the good name of one of the finest martial arts instructors to walk the planet. I've told you already, I'm happy to meet him with a view to validating or otherwise his certificates and related items but beyond that I am not interested. I'm not the Bujinkan Police. And Garth, if it is a Bujinkan matter then it's solved. The Bujinkan rules are highly explicit in that area are they not?
Garth said:- Semantics? According to the website earlier they were quite happy enough to charge for the lessons they're not giving! :bang: Saru1968? That LoopyLove link showed the guy signing himself off as "jonpt", yes? Well according to the Cape Ninjutsu Federation's website, the guy in Bidston's email address begins with "jonpt". I think that's beyond circumstantial evidence. Same guy. It seems that they train in the Tennis Centre in Bidston on the Wirral on Sundays.
Oh god. I've just had this image of a bunch of guys in ninja costumes parading around shouting "Koga! Koga! Koga!" in the style of John Belushi in National Lampoon's Animal House. Totally unrelated to the thread I know but still. Perhaps we should organise a Koga Party this weekend?
or invited them to the uk ninjutsu meet... 'insert evil smiley here' btw Andy on another section of MAP someone was asking about Kyudo, so you might get a 'pm' http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61863
"Semantics"? No Gary. Absolutely NOT. I was told by Mr Norris myself that those without official sanction and/or a black belt (i.e. not instructor level in TSD) *cannot* teach TSD. It's logical. If this guy is a BLUE BELT how *on earth* can he *teach* however broadly you obviously use that word?? I want to reiterate to people again: this is not an official training group. Every goat and dog can train in seminars and take a few lessons here and there- heck, I'm one of them (was one of them). They have a shady background and things need to be assessed by senior Shihan in Dayton. I have saved the web site as archive because I have a feeling some pre-launch editing will take place ;-) This will do nothing but further damage the reputation of To-Shin Do not only in the UK but abroad. Gary, please, have the sense to move this one on and do something pro-active about it. As for me I want nothing more to do with TSD in the UK. Period. Me.Close()
MWDAndy Posted It is nothing against the Bujinkan, if someone tells me of their claim in another organisation who am i disbelieve them. If I really wanted to make an attack on the Bujinkan, the first place I would have posted would have been here on MAP, not in a private e mail to yourself. Please can you also tell me in your e mails where you have pointed out who to talk to. You have only mentioned two people, one of who is directly involved from the other side and i do not think this person will agree with this party as it would be damning for him, the other is in Japan and is far removed from the event in question. Yes absolutely. I feel that this issue is not actually an issue for MAP or any other forum, but considering you brought it here I have no option but to respond. There are of course things that I have agreed not to do with someone that I call a friend, if you get my meaning, and whatever happens here on the forums I will not breach that trust. Of course its true. This party that we are talking about is making claims in regard to his Bujinkan history, and as this person trains in Bujinkan with a high ranking instructor in the Bujinkan it is for the Bujinkan to act. It is not for members of To-Shin Do to act on the Bujinkans behalf. Sure this person trains in To-Shin Do too, but he is not an instructor or leads a group. As I say the claims are in regard to Bujinkan, and as he is a person who trains in Bujinkan then surely the first action should come from his instructor. I wonder if you have contacted the said instructor to take action or expect To-Shin Do expell this person from our organisation while he remains within the Bujinkan because they themselves have not acted. In regard to this parties claims this party has offered to sit down with you and go through everything at the next Stephen K Hayes seminar, however you have refused to do this by saying So you have listened to one side of the argument, which is exactly what you expect me to do in this regard. i.e listen to you without taking on board what the other side has to say and then take action against this party, and what for... Making claims about his Bujinkan history, for which I have no tangible proof, i.e records. I know its difficult to prove a negative, but apart from yourself no person has contacted me in this regard and even what you say is via a third party. I am not saying that what you say is incorrect but if the Bujinkan are so aware of these claims why is the Bujinkan not taking action? If this person was making claims against To-Shin Do which were incorrect then I or another person in To-Shin Do would deal with it, but the party in question is not. Yet you expect me to act and expell this guy from To-Shin Do, when the Bujinkan will not do anything themselves. I will not do that. This person has greed to meet with you and discuss what he says, what could be more fair than that, however you have spoken to a few people that says his claim is rubbish and this party is therefore made out to be a liar. Hardly fair is it? But then you say So lets leave it till July. Sure Andy I understand where you are coming from based on your background and your loyalty to the Bujinkan, but i'm sure you understand where I am coming from. Meet with this party and discuss it then, lets not start making one sided unproven statements on the forums about another person until they have had a chance to put their side of the story. Lastly one of the quotes you put was But not in this regard. You are taking this completely out of context. The issue you are talking about has nothing whatsover to do with what you are putting on this forum. As I said there is a lot of stuff that cannot be placed on here due to the Data Protection Act, and student care. But the issue you are talking about here, and really think about this Andy, but if the whole episode that you are refering to comes out and this party decides to hit the forums it will become more embarrasing for the Bujinkan, and certain members of the Bujinkan than it will for To-Shin Do. I know this seems like a threat, but it is not. I do not think this party will come on here and is very sad about the whole affair, but if you knew what i knew Andy for the sake of this student you would not be airing this issue here. I know people here believe I have an anti Bujinkan agenda, but in this regard I am really trying to stay non biased in this and not cause a flame war on the forum. Unfortunatley for me people will think that I am backing out to try to save face, but the forum is really not the place for this. Due to the fact that this incident contains some sensitive material involving personal data then it should be resolved within the organisation i.e the bujinkan for this is where he is making his claims. Not and I repeat NOT against To-Shin Do. At the end of all this you may be right and i might come out of this looking like a bloody fool that should have listened to you, but as in the case of any investigation it has to be carried out correctly and without bias. I will assist you in getting the information you desire by arranging for you to sit down with this party, but beyond that, considering it is a Bujinkan issue, I cannot get involved. Beyond that contact me by E mail Andy or call me, or wait until July when the other side of the story can be told and the truth can at last reveal itself. Gary Arthur
This is the most important point in this conversation, a lot indicates they WERE koga kola like that bit Saru put up, more evidence against than for them, but i think it should be your own Shihan that police this issue.
Tactonic Gate posted Then you need to contact Mr Norris. Mr Hayes is well aware of the situation. So because a couple of guys make a mistake by getting taking in by a bogus organisation they are shady. At no time did these people you talk about attend, sponsor, or teach Koga Ryu Ninjutsu. As I said the web site was not in the public domain AFAIK and was something sent to me as a rough draft of a future website. Mr Farrington and his group ARE NOT teaching Koga style. They are studying To-Shin Do under Stephen K Hayes at seminars, myself once a month, and when I get down to Liverpool. They have a history in the Bujinkan that is far longer than anything within Koga Style. You are a member of To-Shin Do and your actions here are doing nothing more than damaging the reputation because you are not in possesion of the full facts. please contact me (see your e mails) Gary Arthur
what about the snip that saru put up on here? no, the situation is damaging the org, theese guys should be made to give up any link to Cape fed AND shinobikai and train just in TSD not dip in here and there where they feel like it.
BIDSTON. UK Tennis Centre Bidston unknown Times 10:00 - 12:00 (Tradition) and 12:00 - 14:00 (Modern) Days Sundays Contact Sensei Peter J Ferguson 0151 670 0893 Email address: <E-Mail addy removed > Taken from Cape fed koga website, how can he explain that? they are making it up? These are the exact dates that the NEW TSD dojo train at, so how are they similar, i think its best for them to at least admit this then people can move on.
Keikai posted You are correct in this although Mr Farrington did say last night that he wished he had now included the details and location of his shop because of the free advertising. But you are correct. As I stated Mr Farrington has severed all ties with this group and has not sent them any money to remain a member of this group. I will speak to Adrian Farrington regarding this but i'm pretty sure that he has not updated them with details, although saying that at least when the guys looking for Koga Kola walk into his dojo they will be getting the real stuff. Gary Arthur
Also to be fair, anyone with a small amount of time in Bujinkan proper knows the situation with Koga Ninjers....but i shall ask when i visit next Sunday...
Saru1968 posted I am wondering why you would want to visit them when you have a black belt in the same area. You said on a number of occasions that you want to tray To-Shin Do so why not go to Dale, or is it that you just want to dig the dirt? Gary Arthur
Got to agree here. What's the point in going over. The guys made a mistake and he's paying for it now, no point rubbing his nose in it. Let him get on with his training.
Gary, you really can be an idiot sometimes, if you look at Gary's past training history you will see he will travel long distances to train with people, no matter who they are under or what grade they are, why not give him a chance and believe that he's actually going there for the training!. :bang:
