Rogue One (spoiler free)

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Travess, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    That's crazy! My fiancee and I have been trying to go to a showing, but they've been sold out nearly completely for the past week at several area theaters. It's kinda nuts.

    My ranking for the films:
    Good - ANH, ESB
    Passable - RoTJ, TFA
    The prequels.

    :[
     
  2. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    I did go to the 11.15pm showing, which finished at 1.50am! I think the earlier showings were pretty full though.
     
  3. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    :zzz:I watched Rogue one while out of the country over the christmas holidays.. Personally, I thought it was boring with the exception of Donnie Yen doing the staff combatives scene.. I fell asleep during the movie because of boredom and have no intentions of watching it again until it comes to the netflix ( if ever if it does):zzz:
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    "Are you kidding me?! I'm blind!"
     
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Might I suggest your library?

    I read the "Episode 1" book after the horrible movie. Come one -- it SUCKED. Just everyone admit that it is gawd-awful. The book was okay. Much better than the movie. So I'm totally in the camp of reading the books versus just watching the movies.

    I haven't seen "Roque 1" yet so ignoring that one -- Empire, Original Star Wars (Han shoots first, hello!!!), Return of the Sith, Return of the Jedi. So we just have to flip one. :D :D
     
  6. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    See that's how I feel about Revenge of the Sith... How the heck was Vader surprised that he had twin children? Did Padme just not go to an Ob/Gyn?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  7. Travess

    Travess The Welsh MAPper Supporter

    :jester:
    The only OB and GYN she went to, was OBi wan and Qui Gon GYN :jester:

    (Sorry!)
     
  8. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    HAIYOOOOOOO

    I actually laughed at this, thanks :]
     
  9. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    LOL, now I feel silly for never thinking about that! Excellent question.
    (And ya, I chuckled at the joke, too!)
     
  10. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/womens-healthcare-star-wars

    On that note, this essay is amazeballs.

    I re-watched the Walking Dead with my fiancee and the same issues popped up for me in the Lori story arc. As a society and audience we just accept that pregnancy is mysterious and dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    So I finally saw Rogue One and wow, what a letdown. I found myself incredibly, incredibly bored by the movie, I think in part because the film lacked any sort of emotional core. The characters move around like chess pieces from this action set piece to that, making decisions not because of who they are but because of what needs to happen next in the movie. The surface of it is awesome, the aesthetics perfectly matched to the original so that everything looks like rediscovered Ralph McQuarrie concept art, but that's all the similarity to be found.

    Underneath the glamor of Star Wars is a really functional, nuts and bolts, story. The characters have clear emotions, the different scenes have obvious emotions, and the movie takes us on an emotional journey, with highs and lows. I feel like a consistent misunderstanding that occurs in storytelling these days is the mistake of thinking dark and serious means one note. Empire was dark. Empire was serious. There were profound consequences for our characters' decisions. Han is encased in carbonite. Luke is mutilated by his father. But we had moments of love, of laughter, of wonder(!) in that movie. A two and a half foot tall green muppet made us think about life a little differently.

    All of these moments, and indeed, even the grim and serious nature of Empire, were made possible because of character. Rogue One felt like a slog of a movie where bad things happened to people we didn't really care about, who were moving from scene to scene to reach a predetermined action set piece. In this way they resemble no Star Wars movies as much as they do the prequels.
     
  12. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Amen, keep preaching, brother! :happy: :jester:

    My son made a comment recently that I thought really nailed the problem with movies these days, and it fits exactly into your critique here. There are movies and tv shows with fights that are boring, just violence for the sake of violence, and then ... there are Quentin Taratino movies with fighting and violence. The difference is that Taratino tells a story with compelling characters that the viewer actually grows attached to, in spite of the blood and body count.

    I'm not saying that we need more blood and death in our movies, but we certainly need more story in our movies. :mad:

    I think of the original Star Wars and Empire, and I think, "I really really want a Chewie! :cry:" Those movies were about relationships, and I want my own Chewie!

    I think of all three prequels plus Force Awakens and I think ... someone is really good at special effects. :rolleyes:

    Same thing with Star Trek. The special effects of the old stuff sucks by today's standards, but it was about the characters. It was about their relationships with one another. The movies are still good (to me) because they're stories about characters, not about flash-bang-pop special effects. The new stuff lacks the characters and they're boring to me. :dunno:
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    This was the sole reason I went to see it on the big screen.

    I didn't expect any more from it, and I wasn't disappointed.

    I completely agree with your assessment.
     
  14. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i think it's kind of funny to me personally, as a cinephile, hearing you guys talk about the star wars movies. we're not exactly talking about casablanca or citizen kane. lol.

    at the end of the day (for me, to emphasize), even a new hope is at best a decent movie that for its time had good special effects that just happened to strike a chord with people. it's certainly not 'seven samurai' level.

    me personally, i like rogue one better than everything else except new hope, only because new hope was the first. but for me, the compression of space/time, the total lack of nuance in just about everything, the horrible scripts and even worst acting in all the movies (yes, all) just makes the entire affair just kind of blase. i own star wars stuff, and i've seen all the movies in the theater. and i actually now have a lego millenium falcon that me and the kids put together. ha ha.

    you guys ever watched 'hidden fortress'?

    also, i'm not wanting to or trying to rain on your star wars parade. sorry if you think that. don't know how to fix my text to convey what i'm getting at though. :) there are actually much better adventure movies. just sayin'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    On a technical level, I agree with you completely.

    I think that you may be underestimating the chord that it happened to strike with people though. For raw, emotional devotion, it's hard to beat Star Wars in any art medium of the 21st Century.

    Star Wars and Indiana Jones were both rehashings of the films of the director's childhood. Sinbad, Flash Gordon, all those swashbuckling adventure stories. They worked because they didn't stray too far from the formula, even though they were somewhat innovative with the settings and aesthetic. The story comes from conflicting motivations between characters we understand.

    Rogue 1 was a rehashing of war movies form the 40's and 50's. In this, it failed. It failed because what it was missing was the character stereotypes that made all those old war movies work. They failed to derive a story from the motivations of the characters, and instead were finding excuses to move from one set piece to the next.

    This is literally how blockbusters are made now. They get particular shots mocked up as concept art and write a story around them. It's all ass-backwards.
     
  16. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I am geeking out that you like Citizen Kane. :happy:

    I did watch Hidden Fortress but I wasn't impressed with it. I suspect too much was lost in the subtitles.

    Seven Samurai, though ... I don't know, I'm with David. I still put New Hope in the same list of bests. They both strike a chord, like you say.
     
  17. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i'm not disagreeing with you. me saying rogue one is my favorite aside from a new hope is an indictment of ALL the movies. your quoted criticism above applies to all the star wars movies, i think. what is a new hope except for an excuse to go from one set piece to another?

    and i get how deeply the franchise has struck a chord. i remember riding home in my parents' car after empire and just being flabbergasted at the plot line. "i can't believe darth vader is luke's father". lol

    funny thing...my kids love episode 3 the best of all the movies. also, jar jar, huge fans. all kids seemingly are.
     
  18. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Smart kid! Great comparison. My go to is The Walking Dead vs. Game of Thrones. Totally agree with everything else you've said too - especially about the Star Trek movies. Latest one was pretty dang good, I had a lot of fun in that movie!

    On that note - I was kinda bummed out by the color palette of the movie. Endless grays and earth tones and maroons.

    I disagree, I think ANH and ESB are every bit as good as Citizen Kane. I think you'll have to rewatch Empire Strikes Back if that's what you got out of it :p. The Star Wars series were very well constructed films with original aesthetics and vision - something that you don't really see these days, even with exponentially more advanced special effects.

    Their scripts were incredibly functional and the chord that they struck (and continue to strike!) is a direct result of that function. That sounds like an easy thing to do until you look at how very many movies fail on that front, and the reception of movies that are even able to nail that one ingredient.

    As for poorly acted, well, I think the performances were what they needed to be. Every single character in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back is instantly recognizable. I could have conversations in African villages about Darth Vader even though the people didn't have running water or electricity. That's kinda crazy when you think about it.

    Yup, loved it. I'm actually on a kick revisiting old Kurosawa flicks.
     
  19. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    it's definitely the greatest movie i've ever seen.

    but i also think ulysses is the greatest book ever.

    i know i know, movie and books that no one reads or watches. :cry:
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    A New Hope was retelling a story that has been told a million times, because it works. You had characters with character, no matter how hackneyed and corny. The original trilogy was silly fluff, but silly fluff that had most people emotionally involved with the characters.

    Stand out moments in the original trilogy, for me, all revolve around scenes where character's motivations are shown - Luke pretending to be a seasoned adventurer in front of Leia, Han taking the money and leaving only to come back and save the day etc. etc... No-one talks about the special effects when Luke finds out Darth Vader is his father, because the special effects are used in service of the story.

    I haven't heard anyone talk about the characters' emotional journeys in Rogue 1, only how cool the lasers and AT-AT's look.
     

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