Trump by name......

totally agree. here we have a prime example of what modern conservative government means and whether it's effective or not. and instead, republicans immediately demanded we double down on all of that, the moment a black man becomes president.

and i will add, there is a lot of economic data showing that the reagan and bush years were not panacea, and in fact, detrimental to the economy in a number of ways. but yet, we're always asked to look back to this supposed terrific period economically. and don't even get me started on iran/contra, the drug war, and the federal response to hiv/aids. conservatives have shown for many decades, that they cannot govern.

 

Disgusting racist comment removed.

And it's goodbye to Avenger.

 

Yes, of course I can cite Trump insulting all those groups. You can't cite Hillary insulting women, but go ahead and post the quote and let's see it, and I'll post the hundreds of quotes of Trump insulting various groups, deal?

And if he'd said he wants to ban Jews until they can be vetted, would that be OK? How do you tell a Muslim, is it like checking their circumcision status circa 1939?

And there's nothing wrong with trying to keep criminals out of the US from other countries, but the vast majority of criminals are US citizens, not immigrants anyway.

I have her work in front of me, cite the exact words or you're just poorly paraphrasing and changing meaning. When paraphrasing an author, it's important not to try to change their meaning, especially to further a political argument the way you are doing.

Why would you think I need to get my information on her from the Democrats? I'm not a Democrats, I don't subscribe to any newsletters...

I think you are very uneducated on this subject and it shows in your lack of knowledge of certain facts, such as Byrd's entire recorded history from the Civil Rights era onward.

But that was the other day, and Clinton still wins if the election was held today, according to the entire sum of polls and probabilities as determined right now be actual experts, and not partisan sources like the ones you clearly follow.

Finally, 13 of 15?? Really, come on this is basic lying using statistics.

Exactly which 13 of which 15 national polls? This sounds like 1 out of 10 dentists, another fallacy of statistical argumentum. Chances are the 13 you're claiming aren't even national.

Trump is "winning" in all sorts of polls that don't matter on a national level. Polls in Arkansas are a great example, they are in extreme variance to other national polls and shouldn't be considered reflective of national trending.

The latest polls that do actually matter show Clinton has a significant lead well outside the standard error. At this point in the election, with weeks away, Donald Trump's only chance of winning is for Clinton to take a major dive in popularity nationally. And she's not doing much to encourage that, whereas he is still on the warpath against anyone that doesn't tout his line. His "job" up to now has been to gather enough votes to win mere days from now, and it's clearly very unlikely he's done a good job.

So I'll have to say it now... "Donald...you're FIRED"

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-clinton-leads-trump-ahead-first-debate-n652141

Oh and please stop challenging anyone who disagrees with you as using information provided by the Democrats. It's very weak debate form, to attack a source that isn't cited. If I ever cite Democratic material, or an actual Democrat, then maybe you can be correct that time. Thanks

 

Since you're obviously drinking the democratic cool-aid. Let's take a different tact, tell me what qualifies hillary to be president? One term in the US senate where she authored a total of two bills. Also one term as secretary of state where she was ridiculed around the world (I currently live on a military base in Asia). She has lived her entire life working in government after she was forced to give up her law license. She committed a felony when she was subpoenaed to turn over all of her e-mails, then she deleted 30k of them. The justice department, headed by a clinton appointee, admitted that but chose not to prosecute. She defended a child rapist, then laughed about it while being recorded. Her and bill paid off bill's sexual assault victims, then ridiculed them in public. She says she never used her private server for government work, then said she never used her government server during her FBI testimony because she didn't trust it. So when DID she do work as SOS? Her and bill are at the center of land sale frauds going back to his days as governor, she has 40 years of scandal after scandal. She even claims she didn't know what a "C" meant to classify documents? As SOS? Really? She sold 20% of the US uranium deposits to the Russians for a song after a 45 mil donation to her 'foundation'. Trump is brash, arrogant, a loudmouth. He's extremely successful in business, he has filed bankruptcy in 7 out of just less than 500 businesses. A successful businessman by any standard. Bankruptcies which were chapter 11 meaning that the debts were reorganized and paid back. No one lost any money. He is a billionaire, extremely successful. She is a liar going back decades, fired from Watergate for unethical behavior and lying, lying about 'joining the marines', lied about being under sniper fire in Bosnia. She is anti-military, anti business, announced just yesterday she wants to raise the estate taxes to 65%. She says she is against the big hedge funds and insurance companies yet she's taken millions from them in donations to her 'foundation'. Heck her daughter married a hedge fund manager....


The US political system is broken. If she wins, or takes, the election by fraud, it will be business as usual. If Trump wins, there will be drastic changes. Maybe they will fail, maybe they won't. But we know what another clinton presidency will bring. Republicans have said IF she is elected, they will begin impeachment proceedings almost immediately. She will be just like obama, an embarrassment and a disgrace to our country.

 

It's very obvious you don't know what you're talking about when you're unable to engage the subject matter and simply start ranting.

 

No, let's stick with your mistakes and relying on information that's been thoroughly fact checked and proven wrong by Snopes.com and other non-partisan outlets. Before we begin, I'd like to point out just about everything you claim in that big paragraph of inaccurate partisan accusations and email spam conspiracies, has been proven false by non-partisan sources. Fired from Watergate by who, Jerry Zeifman? No. Forced to give up law license? Nope it expired. Crimes? Nope, not a single one so far (although you seem to be drooling for it).

It's also hard to take you seriously if you keep backpedaling and evading questions, but seriously, if you're going to try insulting others, learn to spell things accurately.

"Kool-Aid" is spelled with a K. And no, I've yet to post a single thing from the Democrats, otherwise you'd be able to identify it, the same way we identified you using Ben Carson's talking points. Don't throw stones in your glass house especially when everyone is aware of what your source is (someone already posted it).

But I digress...let's get into details since that's your weak spot.
Now on to your paragraph's inaccuracies and red herrings, shall we?

There are 100 Senators, plenty of them never author any bills, and authoring bills isn't a prerequisite for being President.

This is a superfluous opinion unsubstantiated by any facts, and your position in the military in Asia doesn't mean anything at all, so don't bring it up as supporting evidence.

No and no, she's not spent her entire life working in government, only a relatively brief number of years in any elected or appointed capacity. Being First Lady of either Arkansas or the US is not a government position.

She was not forced to give up her law license, it expired due to the fact that she stopped taking the necessary Continuing Education credits, because quite frankly, she moved on to non-legal work outside of Arkansas.

The DOJ is headed by Loretta Lynch, who was appointed by President Obama...not a Clinton. Where the heck do you get your information, email forwards???

No felony committed, nor did the FBI Director admit that she'd committed any felony, in fact, that's exactly the opposite of what the FBI admitted.

Remember, her committing a felony is not adjudicated via opinions like yours, it's done via due process (thankfully).

Defense attorneys defend rape suspects and murder suspects all the time. That's their job, and if you had the courage to post the recording, you'd see exactly why she chuckled. Only an extreme partisan would try to spin that laugh into something more substantive. You are taking two completely different events, trying to combine the context, to make another political jab (that Clinton finds child rape comical?)

Once again, that's not how the law works. There were never any sexual assault victims. No charges, no evidence. Just hearsay and more unsubstantiated accusations.

Are you noticing a trend? You keep leaning on accusations for which there has never been evidence. That's because accusations are easy to make, but hard to prove (thankfully).

This is a terrible summation of what she's actually said. I think you need to take a breather, man.

Nope, no fraud. Another unsubstantiated claim of yours. No evidence of fraud, no fraud charges, no fraud conviction. Just accusations. Ho hum!

You're wrong again. Did you even watch the hearings? C stood for "Confidential", not "Classified". And again, another inaccurate claim about tying Clinton to selling uranium to the Russians...straight from the Trump campaign no less. And you have the nerve to accuse me of getting all my information from Democrats???

Listen, I think you need to actually learn about Trump's business successes before typing out all of this stuff. He's not that successful, he didn't build his wealth from the ground up. In fact, he's not even close to "extremely" successful, given his current ranking among American billionaires. He's no Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet (both of whom are against a Trump presidency). Trump's lost more money than he's ever made, probably why he's stayed so low on the totem poll of the American wealthy elite. Few successful businesspeople need reality TV to pump their brand, like Trump has needed. Without 'The Apprentice', nobody would know who Trump is...just some 80's mogul nobody gave a damn about anymore, right?

So, why are all the MORE successful businesspeople against Trump? Why is Mark Cuban so against Trump, and why are economists predicting a possible $6T debt increase from his policies? Where are his mega-donors, people willing to put their own money in investment? The answer is simple, most ran screaming from being associated with Donald Trump, and any who remain might as well be dumping their capital into the sea.

Are you a conspiracy nut? Do you really believe US elections, some of the most transparent in human history, can be won via fraud? If Clinton wins, the system must be rigged? You just nailed your argument's coffin shut with that statement, another Trump conspiracy.

The first Clinton presidency was pretty good one by objective standards, so why are you so afraid of another?

The Republicans beginning impeachment proceedings against a newly elected president will sign their party's death warrant. The American public is obviously tired of this kind of Republican obstructionism, especially in Congress where their approval ratings are the lowest ever, so anyone doubling down on it, especially Trump, is going to have the door shut in their faces. For that reason, half the GOP has already fled Trump's campaign.

As a long-time conservative voter, it's never been clearer to me how badly the GOP in general has handled the party reigns, first by allowing the radicals in the Tea Party to define their new platform, and the loudmouths like Trump to swindle away the nomination from people actually qualified. It's funny I told my friends I would never, ever vote for say, Jeb Bush for various reasons. Now, I wish Jeb was still around. A third Bush beats Trump by a wide margin.

Going forward, I suggest you stick to one or maybe two debate issues at a time, rather than trying to plop 50 false statements in one paragraph, all untrue, in an attempt to muddy the waters.

I may not be the best debater, man, but I am a meticulous fact checker. If we graded you on accuracy, you got big F with your last post.

 

Anyone who relies on Snopes as their 'fact checker' is laughable. You simply have your head in the sand, stay clueless my friend....so continue with your farcical argument. Regarding the military, it's a shame you have no respect for the military, classic democratic hallmark. Having worked for them on and off for many years I respect them greatly. You're offensive to think that military members opinions are not worthy of being taken seriously. It's a shame that people like you are allowed to spew your messages of hate and lies. You ignored 3/4 of what I said about hillary...Bosnia, the marines, etc....continue to cherry pick little man. Let the adults in the room make the grown up decisions...

 

Why is it a "personal attack" Simon, to say he got an F on accuracy with his post? Nothing he's saying is accurate at all, it's a list of email forward conspiracies, yet he's the one who keeps accusing me of using party talking points, and now he's moved on to the straw man of disrespecting the military? I'm spewing "hate and lies" about the US military?????????? Remember when he merely said Planned Parenthood/Sanger wanted to kill all the Black people and I challenged him on that one? Exactly which of his untruths am I supposed to tiptoe around? Are his opinions special somehow because he's a long-time poster or on a military base in Asia???

How can you POSSIBLY equate what he and I are doing. Kwajman is attacking without facts and relying on personal feelings, and immutable in his perspective. At least I'm addressing each of his factual errors with reason and evidence. He clearly hates not only Clinton but Democrats, so he keeps calling me a Democrat and dismissing my arguments as Democratic propaganda.

He's also clearly against Planned Parenthood and is misusing history again, to support his flawed suppositions.

If your policy here is to provide a balanced discussion, then how do you suggest dealing with posters like Avenger or Kwajman who use propaganda as facts? Does the TOS not support critical dissection, and if I call someone dishonest or peddling labels like a bigot, I've made a "personal attack"?

I don't understand, but I think I know why you're giving Kwajman a pass on his own personal attacks.

 

Oh I don't have to rely on Snopes, I have every other respectable periodical to rely on. And now explain to everyone here why Snopes.com is laughable.

Is Snopes now a Democratic plot?

By the way, Snopes and Politicfact alone debunked every.single.accusation you made. That must explain why they can't trusted by us kids, right?

Which argument, the one where I provide evidence that practically everything you post and believe about Hillary Clinton, Marge Sanger, or Robert Byrd is 100% wrong, and easily debunked by numerous legitimate sources?

You haven't provided a SINGLE legitimate source to back up a SINGLE thing you've claimed. That's why I gave you the F.

Yeah ok stop. You're making this whole line up, it's a huge straw man argument, and at no time in any post ever on MAP, have I ever disrespected the military.

No, I addressed practically everything you crammed in your little paragraph of uncited, non-supportable statements in an attempt to overwhelm me with facts to check.

Unfortunately for you, citation and fact checking is currently what I do for a living and yours are truly trivial to expose.

I don't think you know what "Cherry picking" actually means in a debate.

Are you incapable of actually citing a single source for any accusation you make?

 

Here's a sanitized less confrontational version of previous posts.

Authored vs sponsored vs co-sponsored? "authored a total of two" is not an accurate representation of bill she helped pass. Either way, time in the Senate has never been a prerequisite for being President of the United States.

This isn't evidence of anything. I support the military. That should end that.

She wasn't forced to give up her law license. She's only spent a small fraction of her life in official government service, if you're counting elected office or appointments, it's a matter of less than a decade total.

There's no evidence she's committed any felony.

Headed by someone appointed by President Obama, you meant, and chose not to prosecute based on the law.

Bill Clinton has never sexually assaulted anyone, according to the legal system in the US. Lawyers defend rapists all the time...it's their job.

While she was Secretary of State, obviously.

No fraud charges or convictions. No evidence to these claims.

As previously stated, C stood for Confidential, not Classified. There's nothing wrong with running a private email server and handling Confidential emails. Millions do it. Colin Powell did it too.

"She sold" nothing.

True.

False, in the realm of US billionaires, he's at the very bottom.

Not very successful though compared to thousands of other businesspeople. Not a very diversified portfolio, either. It's very possible without his reality TV success he'd have been forgotten by now, except he ran for POTUS.

"No one lost any money" is false, unless you can prove it with a source.

Not true, or maybe you can post a source proving she was "fired"?

Not true, or maybe you can post a source proving the "lie"?

Not true, she didn't lie, she was under threat of sniper fire upon landing in Bosnia. I already posted sources confirming that, regardless of how you might interpret her words.

She's not anti-military, or anti-business, or you can source proof of an action that was anti-military or anti-business?

She wants to raise the estate tax for billionaires (estates inheritances of more than $500M which means nobody on this website is affected..), and while I don't agree with her on the numbers, I agree in principle that billionaires don't pay their fair share of taxes, like Donald Trump probably doesn't. I only say probably because I can't actually analyze his taxes, he's hiding them from public opinion like a coward.

Why did you put foundation in quotes? It shouldn't be in quotes at all...

Irrelevant.

Broken how? She can only win with fraud?

He won't win. He doesn't have the support, the polling is clear as crystal.

I disagree that Obama has been an embarrassment or disgrace. I think he's been very presidential and taken a lot of baseless attacks like yours in stride.

Coming from me, a conservative, that means nothing? See you can't call me a Democrat-loving, military and business hating liberal, because I'm the opposite of those things. I don't like political parties, but I donate to Wounded Warriors, and I generally vote for Republicans unless a Democrat wins me over, like Obama and Clinton have. If that's "drinking the Kool Aid" (remember, big K not little c), so what? It doesn't make me a Democrat, it means I can think on my own.

 

i'll give trump credit, he's got the uneducated and racist vote all locked up.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/09...election-two-coalitions-moving-further-apart/

 

Please post a racist quote he's made against Americans?

 

That's funny.

 

Well most of the world and most of America consider him a standing joke. Our allies can't depend on us and our enemies laugh at us. The commander on our base had to remove his photos from most of the base due to graffiti. Shows what our active duty men and women think of their 'commander in chief'...

If you donate to Wounded Warriors check their rating, they have one of the worst records of donating to those in need, mostly what your doing is paying for their CEO's parties. Earlier this year their CEO and COO resigned due to mishandling of funds...not a good organization...Most military families do not donate to it due to the way they use funds....

Trump is currently ahead nationally in the polls, some states a little, some states a lot. He's also behind in some states, but overall he is ahead as of yesterday morning.

Her "foundation" is considered a joke, they donate less than 10% of funds received. Look at their 900k salary of chelsea, also paid 10 mil for chelsea's apartment. Also not good.

As far as Trump's taxes, there's no law that states that any candidate release their taxes. Suggested yes but law no. He has stated he will release his taxes when hillary released her unscrubbed medical records as he recently did. Why won't she? She released a one page statement from her doctor, not her medical records.

Regarding her anti-military stance, she has said repeatedly she intends to reduce the size of the military. She is considered a standing joke here on our base and those I've visited through Asia that's why she has less than a 20% approval rating from the military and Trump has the overwhelming support of the military officers and enlisted men...

If all you can come up with is the argument for c or k in Kool-Aid, that's funny. Oh and in the PI it's cool-aid, not Kool-Aid....

Bosnia: so when she said she had to run ducking to the terminal when the photos showed she was OUTSIDE taking flowers from children she was under sniper fire, she didn't say threat, she said she was under sniper fire. You lose...

I went to the Arkansas State Law website, google it. It clearly states she 'voluntarily surrendered' her law license under threat that she would get it revoked if she didn't. That's like saying a dui driver 'voluntarily' surrenders his license when pulled over. You lose...

You say there are "thousands of businessmen more successful". Really, I didn't know we had that many billionaires in the US. Seems more opinion than any facts that you claim to check so thoroughly. Go to the NY law library website and check whether he repaid his bills, he did. Again your 'fact checking' fails you.

Your comments about being overseas and demeaning the importance of our votes or opinions shows you DO look down upon the military and it's members.

False, in the realm of US billionaires, he's at the very bottom. Really? Forbes has him listed as #113 in the US? Seems your ability to count has dropped off. He's also listed as #324 in the world? So who are all those 'thousands who are more successful" businessmen at? You lose on this one also...

She refused to turn over subpoened e-mails to the FBI, then deleted them. That is a felony...

So your arguments fail, your arguments are mostly your opinion and therefore are worthless in an argument. Go to the websites, do your so called fact checking, enjoy your day and vote for hillary. Be well my friend...

 

Just repeating the same old lies, I see.

 

it shows me that some people don't understand or appreciate the constitution of the united states. as i'm sure you've read, we have civilian control of the military in this country and the president is the head of the armed forces.

so in other words, those people you mention are treasonous.