Kurai Kotori Ninjutsu

but without the usual pointless arguments and general nastiness on this forum i doubt very much there would be more than 1 page of topics.

the siggie is confronting and controversal. It is an icebreaker for others to think for themselves and ask the questions that need to be asked in order to find the core truth.

 

If I was as bolshy and desperate to be centre of attention as you are, I would at least avoid dunce-esque spelling mistakes and instead concentrate on solid argument and facts.

 

I agree with Mr Gibb's, you do tend to tar a lot with the same brush for moving away or to those that no-longer wish to be members any more.

Most of us train hard.
Most are devoted to training whether Indie groups or not.
It is also a forum for everyone who have or ever been training in taijutsu not just the Bujinkan


But to Landofthelost:

Diving in head first ain't going to get you any brownie points from the Indie's, no matter how valid or good of a question you may ask.Even if some statement's ring true to effect.

I don't want to see another thread shut down due to bitchiness, this tends to happen more than not on MAP between Indie Vs Booj Vs Outsider.

There is only one winner and that is the Moderators

Ask civil questions, but don't always expect a civil answers.

 

Deleted

 

I can see a Ban on the horizon

 

...or ear surgery and psychotherapy.

 

I'd say you might be able to say that's a possibility, not a very likely one though.

However why are the specific systems not listed? Now you might say for the same reason above but I think it's even less likely, why say you are preserving "classical arts" but not mention the specific ones?

Also how do you account for the huge amount of errors seen in their movement?

 

The alternative is that his instructor has banned him from using his name - cos he is chuffin' embarrassed.

 

Well, this thread has altered somewhat.... let's see if we can find our way back to the topic, which Don tried to do earlier.

Landofthelost, in response to Don saying that there were major credibility issues with Mark's story of his methods being traditional Japanese martial skills,

you mentioned that the reason Mark Grove doesn't reveal his teacher is due to a possibility of some form of respect

but what strikes me is not the lack of a name for a teacher, when it comes to what Mark is showing, it's the complete lack of resemblance to any authentic, established system or method of using the weaponry that he is showing. If he had a teacher, he didn't teach Mark anything at all, at least not relating to anything authentically Japanese.

This is not restricted to sword, though. Go to the video section on the site, and watch the first one, Bojutsu ("Dragon Cudgel Blocking Form (?)") http://www.warriorquest.com/ninjavideos.html The static hands, the weak blocks and weaker strikes, the completely useless actions and combatively illogical movements.... honestly, what it looks like is someone who watched Errol Flynn as Robin Hood one too many times, fixating on the Little John on the Bridge scene.....

I could go on... the next one (Fu no Kata "Wind Method of Fighting" - huh? Who does his translation?) is as much a mongrel of a demo as anything, with primarily karate takedowns and sweeps, a bit of gyaku waza, some TKD spinning crescent kicks, and back flips, with very little being similar to anything Japanese, and most being dissimilar to itself. Again, it looked like Mark read Steve Hayes's books and took his cue from there.

Now, all the evidence indicates that Mark, like Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, and many others (Kevin Hawthorne down here....) had no actual teacher in anything even Japanese, let alone anything authentically relating to the skills they purport to teach. And I'm not even refering to the Ninjutsu concept here, just things like use of a Japanese sword, or staff, as opposed to the Okinawan method of using a staff, or the Robin Hood Movie-Ryu of using a staff. So that seems a better reason to be distrustful of no indication of an instructor, not even a name. If you can't see the difference between what he does and teaches, and the actual use of a Japanese sword etc, then I feel you will not be in a position to comment on anything to do with Japanese arts here.

Oh, and just to point something out with the Wikipedia article, and why Wiki can't really be taken seriously as a source (in this case of nothing more than an opinion):

The term used is Takamatsu-den. It is taken from Takamatsu Sensei's name (obviously), and the Japanese term "Den" 伝. This word is sometimes translated as "traditions", but more accurately refers to transmitting. So refering to the system as "Takamatsu Den" refers to "arts that have been transmitted from Takamatsu", not "arts that have been created by Takamatsu". The main reason is that Takamatsu taught a wide range of systems, from a wide range of categorisations, and it's the primary link between all of them. They aren't all "ninja", they aren't all "samurai", they aren't all weapons, they aren't all unarmed, they aren't all composite schools (sogo bujutsu), but some are....

Whoever wrote that for Wiki doesn't get what the term means itself, and there is an implication in the description that doesn't match the term itself. Not a good source.

 

He has never referred to it as such as far as I know. He calls it Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.

 

To Landofthelost

Damn I'm good.... who's next LOL, my ban sense is tingling

 

Good post before Dale on George Silver, really good read.

 

:topic:

Thanks. I knew your post I was responding to was tongue-in-cheek, and I really did think folks would find it interesting to see the level of combative sophistication that existed in the West (even England. . .sigh) at the time of Japan's Warring States Period. You might find this clip of people working on material from Vincentio Saviolo (from the same time period) interesting as well:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSYSqdz9WKc&feature=share"]YouTube - Renaissance Combat From The 1595 Club (aka. Historical Fencing or European Martial Arts)[/ame]

 

wolverine claws.....wow

 

Now, now Dale, no need for that lol. Or I might start singing 'Two World Wars and One World Cup Do Da Do Da'

Again another good clip cheers...

 

Interesting point in that clip, is to my knowledge and I might need Gary to back this up, is according to the police I know in the U.k.
That the walking stick/cane is the only legal weapon you can carry in the U.K. Obviously the older you are the better, or if you like hiking, or have a sheep dog a lot you'll get away carrying one.

Dale see if you can find a Game Keeper's Stick/Cane for ye olde poachers and look at the techniques involved in that one LOL.



I bought one like the bottom item years ago off a car-boot sale for £20. Made a lovely profit on it, when I realised what it was.

 

Unless you are LEO, military or that little group that can legally flounce weapons carriage laws, there is NO SUCH THING as a legal weapon.

Anything that you can carry that is used in such a manner is a weapon. Once someone is in intensive care from a baseball bat, it ceases to be a sports item, even if you carry a glove and a ball in your car too.

Under UK Common Law, carriage/ownership of certain items comes down quite simply to justification. As daft as it sounds, if you can justify that tac-nuke in your garage, you can own it. Heh.

If you are a sparky and you have a screwdriver in the door pocket of your car when you get stopped by the peelers, then no probs - it was left there after doing this morning's rewiring job. Carpet fitters having a stanley knife in the car (or much more risky, in your pocket) - generally ok 'cos it can be justified. Me carrying my shinken on the way to the dojo - once again, reasonable reason for having such an item with me.

All of the above are justifiable. If you are carrying something that has no reason to be there, you are in trouble. Simple. Something as basic as a walking stick in your car - that a prosecution could prove you didn't need - and once again, you have probs. *

* Sure, a prosecutor would have a hell of a job with this (maybe you keep it in your car 'cos you give an elderly relative lifts in your car on a regular basis?), but just making a point here. If you got into a scrap and someone got SERIOUSLY hurt, they would try a lot harder to prove you carried a walking stick just for combative purposes.

Note to all - if you can find an item you can carry legally due to your work/hobby etc - don't go telling a forum you carry it for self-defence. If you are arrested and your PCs taken as evidence (more often than ever these days), they WILL find your forum posts and you WILL be in it up to the neck.

 

Exactly right Scott, when i was down south i had good relations with the police and i always kept them up to date with what live weapons(swords etc) i owned and when i was carrying them in the car to and from the dojo, i also told them what nights live weapons training took place so that if myself or any of my students were stopped for any reason we were covered, they were very happy with that arrangement.

 

This of a police officer in my neck of the woods, if you have a sword in your house and it is for decorative purposes hung on the wall, it is classed as an ornament. If however the sword is stood in the corner of the room or leaned against a wall as such it is class as a weapon.

Good Old U.K.

Them fishing brollies I have are deadly then

 

I think your local bobby ain't got a clue.

If you really want to get in-depth with questions over the OWA and ownership/carriage of weapons, contact the CPS. I did (as well as spend a good chunk of time with a Chief Super of the West Midlands Police).