What are the fundamental differences b/w Ninjukai Taijutsu and Bujinkan..Taijutsu?

There has been considerable debate over the history of these arts. I would like to hear from those who have done both Ninjukai Taijutsu and Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu as to what are the fundamental differences in style between the two? I want you to go into detail comparing footwork, rolling, striking, blocking, throwing, ground, weapons, ...etc.. techniques and the various training drills you would do in each.

Please keep discussion limited to the style/techniques. No talk about the history or legitimacy of their senior members please. There are plenty of other threads to do that in.

 

What's the history of your art first? where did it come from? what does it comprise of? describe some basics?

What makes it legitimate?

 

Trouble is to discuss the techniques you need to (with regards to the Bujinkan) discuss which ryu they are from as each school has a different approach and feeling, i.e. omote gyaku from Gyokko ryu differs from doing it with a Koto ryu feeling.
A schools waza will, for the most part, reflect it’s development for example as I understand it Kukishinden changed its “line up” of areas studied depending on the time. So as you can see its history does have a bearing not only how things are done but why things are done the way they are.

So to compare the two you may say Bujinakn does X because of Z and Ninjukai does B because of S.

Just my thoughts.

 

are you saying ninjukai only does B & S??

 

just a couple of arbitrary letters that's all...

 

just popped in your head did they?

 

Are there any videos of ninjukai techniques on the net?

It's pretty rewarding to compare to schools of martial arts based on their movements - one can usually see what they were used for, roughly at what time in history, and by whom. I haven't seen any ninjukai techniques yet, but it sure would be interesting.

 

dont know about videos but found some god awful photos

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays/Royalshow_2007/index.html

in this article he calls ninjutsu a brand not a style, i thought a brand was to sell something

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/articles/balanceandharmony/page12.html

looking at the site, wouldnt you be worried if you couldnt find any info at all, even made up info of where it came from?

 

There are so many differences its not funny. The two simply aren't comparable as martial arts. If it wasn't for the get up Ninjukai simply wouldn't pass as ninjutsu based martial art.

How about a fundamental basic stance. Ninjukai has its weight ratio distributed 30/70 or so it was taught a few years ago. the taijutsu taught by the xkans has 0/100 weight distrubiton (with exception.)

Ninjukai has 30 different throws which are actually all just hip throw with a different hand position. Bujinkan has 7 throws.

 

You really really want to know.

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays...hires_images/ninja_royalshow2007_DSCN1081.JPG
Grandmaster is outside of the grading system.

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays...hires_images/ninja_royalshow2007_DSCN1455.JPG
Is that a butterfly sword?

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays...hires_images/ninja_royalshow2007_DSCN1447.JPG
Learn seiza :bang:. If you are going to imitate a japanese arts at least make it look authentic.

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays...hires_images/ninja_royalshow2007_DSCN1381.JPG
Learn proper ukemi.

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays...hires_images/ninja_royalshow2007_DSCN1340.jpg
Tonfa

http://www.ninjukai.com.au/displays...ires_images/ninjai_royalshow2007_DSCN1142.JPG
Sai

 

0/100 weight distribution? I'm not quite sure what that even means.

Only 7?

 

If that was true, none of the xkan waza would involve any stepping or moving, just standing on one leg and maybe hoping, to move you need to be able transition weight from one leg to the other, hence why 50/50 weighting is preferable in self defence, it gives you more options.

I think what you mean is that Xkan kamae has a 0/100 weight distrubiton which also isnt true, apart from the exception of hicho no kamae, there is far more use of 70/30, 55/45, and maybe 90/10.

 

Say what?

 

One question!

How long has Ninjukai been using the dan grading system?

 

since it began.......last summer....

 

If Ninjukai, as according to Mr Ang, is one of the arts the Ninja but from a different era (again according to him) then what other schools had it as part of their curriculum and are there any other mentions of it in historical text or more contemporary works such as the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten?

Finally what ryu is Ninjukai Taijutsu from?

With all this we may be able to get a better understanding of it's techniques and so help towards a more productive discussion.

 

Ok before looking at the differences between Bujinkan and Ninjukai I would like to ask a question, but first lets get something right. On the Ninjukai website it states.

Absolutely there is little evidence for Ninjutsu and the earlier one researches the history the harder it is to find evidence for its existence, especially before the 1600s.

Wait a minute you just said that its not easy to trace the historical background on the Ninja. And you have techniques from the 8th to 12th centuries?

If your talking about the 8th century thats earlier than anything practiced in the Bujinkan.So I guess you must have some scrolls that have been handed down from your teachers and you can present this historical evidence for these 8th century techniques?

Can you?

Can you really?

Wrong, actually ninjutsu had its hey day in the Sengoku Jidai period as supported by books like the Shoninki, Ninpiden, and Bansenshukai.

Funny no mention of Ninjukai in those books.

Also if Ninjukai takes it techniques from the period of the 8th to 12th century, why are you using Sai and Tonfa that were not invented at their earliest in Okinawa (Not Japan) before the 16th century.

Garth

 

Time travelling ninjas. They are synonymous as to the come from the future to act like a douche throughout history.

At present they reside in Australia pretending to be a legitimate school with a past from the 8th century.

 

Fundamental differences? from evidence so far Nijukai is crap, Bujinkan isnt....

 

Sorry, I meant 8, it was getting late and my partner was throwing stuff at me.

I know there is more, but I just wanted to point out the ridiculousness of how many hip throws they have. they also have shoulder throws which are... hip throws.

This might not be the place for it, but regarding 100% weight distrubution in kamae. From Ichimonji shouldn't you be able to enter Hicho without giving any movement away? This would suggest that all your weight is on the rear leg. Obviously Hira is hard to do this way. The transition from one kamae to another should be as brief as the time we stay in one kamae, so I hardly think that time counts as weight distribution. (cept in training, because everyone sits in kamae trying to remember what the next move in the gata is. While we are here, what is the difference between gata and kata?

Ninjukai has no kata, except for its sword work. But the sword work makes about as much sense as choson ninjas.