Hakko Ryu Jujutsu and Aikido: the DIFFERENCE?

[CCG2]

Seriously what is the difference between Hakko Ryu Jujutsu and Aikido? They both originated from Daito Ryu and from what I've seen so far look almost identical.

What sets them apart?

[aikiMac]

Originally Posted by CCG2

Seriously what is the difference between Hakko Ryu Jujutsu and Aikido? They both originated from Daito Ryu and from what I've seen so far look almost identical.

What sets them apart?

"Almost identical" ? Huh?
Are you talking about this? And the long statement on the Home page? I don't see anything similar to aikido except the historical connection with Daito Ryu and references to joint locks.

[aikiwolfie]

At a glance it's clear there are similarities with the general philosophy and some of the techniques. However that isn't surprising given the arts apparent origins. I personaly didn't see anything that indicated to me they were "identical".

It's also important to remember alot more went into creating Aikido than just Diato Ryu.

Originally Posted by John Stevens - Abundant Peace - ISBN 0-87773-350-3 (pbk.)

... Morihei clearly stated "The direct influence of Sokaku's Daito Ryu techniques on the formation of Aikido is not that great. It was but one element among many" ...

[Graham]

I'd done a bit of both aikido and hakko ryu. From what I've seen the application of hakko ryu is much less flowing and more to the point. Although its often called aiki jutsu, I'd say it is better seen as a jujutsu.

There are tecnique differences too. The hakko ryu eqivilent of 'kote gaeshi' 'te kagami' is done with a different grip, that alters it significantly. Also there are several joint locks not seen in aikido.

They are overall quite different arts.

[greg1075]

I train in Hakko Ruy and Aikido is just a part of it (studied at the Brown belt level). You'll almost find as many differences between teachers of the same ryu as you will between the different ryus themselves.

[tsunami3970]

I've been exposed to both arts and I would agree with Graham's description. Both arts are Daito Ryu derivatives and even have similar ethical views (neither seek to just destroy an attacker).

Technique wise, Hakko Ryu is, as Graham indicated, more direct. It therefore lacks the more flowing circular movements of Aikido. The Hakko Ryu techniques are fewer and tend to be heavier on pain compliance (and IT DOES HURT - I've been on the recieving end of a Menkyo Kaiden's wrist binds and it was something I won't forget!) and precise atemi aimed at kyusho points. Not to say that Aikido doesn't contain atemi or it isn't painful but that seems to be Hakko Ryu's focus and they do it well.

I actually think practitioners from both arts could benefit from cross training in the other.

my $0.02

[lycurgos]

The main difference between hakkoryu and aikido I believe is the direction of energy. In hakkoryu the energy is directed to the kake's center there by collapsing and pinning the kake in a very small area. Hakkoryu done correctly takes place in one tatami. To visualize the energy picture a coin rolling in to a funnel,starting at the outside and spiraling in pinpointing the kake's center.

This is the complete opposite of the energy graph of aikido with starts at the Tori's center and spirals out. Disrupting the kake's balance sending him flying off.
Pictures off this energy path can be found on many aikido sites and books. For the hakkoryu usage of the graph just completely reverse it.

To the layman the ends of a technique may appear very similar both being decedents of daitoryu,but the core of the exchange between kake and tori are in fact complete opposites.


kake-receiver of technique
tori-deliver of technique

Chad Myler
San Dan Hakkoryu