Part 4 - Internal and External

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Fire-quan, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. ANGELSGYMSINGH

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    One other thing John:

    Please help me understand your comment about Zimen concerning the manafestation of cold air coming from your fingertips... what does this indicate? Is the rest of the body cold...is there a specific mind intent that precedes and sustains the manafestation? What is the breathing pattern?

    About the long Fist stuff...Miyamoto Musashi talks about that in the Water Book of the Book of Five Rings...has reference to the long cut and the resolution of the mountain. Thanks for helping me remember this for training..... G
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    That's in the Zimen Chuan Pu. I had spent sometime training in that style but I could not reach to that level. The theory of Zimen style is much deeper than the Taiji system. The reason is a Zimen guy needs to train not only the Jin have to reach to the hand but also the finger tips. It's 100% Yin Jin that's differet from the Yang Jin most people did in their iron palm training. The 1st step is to break through the 3 joints (shoulder joint, elbow joint, and wrist joint). So your body have to be extream Sung. When you strike with your Yin Jin, your Yin Jin will go through all those 3 joints while the body is in extream relax situation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  3. ANGELSGYMSINGH

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    I will research this.... Thank you John.
     
  4. ANGELSGYMSINGH

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    I will research this.... Thank you John.
     
  5. eyeofstorm

    eyeofstorm Valued Member

    It takes years to be able to develop the jin in different parts of the body then to connect them in one unbroken stream. Any excess physcial tension in or surrounding a joint will prevent the effect. YouKnowWho is correct in this but he only mentions the arms and shoulder joints. Don't forget the spine, hips, knees and ankles also to get the jin from the root to the fingertips. When you have achieved this you will really have developed something phenomenol.
     
  6. ANGELSGYMSINGH

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    Stormy

    As Musashi advises... I will study hard... and Thanks!!!!
     
  7. KFSON

    KFSON Valued Member

    As I have heard, external and internal lead to the same source but in opposite directions.

    The internal, by concentrating on qi and mind, will lead to the ability to read your opponents mind and being able to generate a kind of qi with the mind and deliver this energy in constructive or destructive form into your opponent without physically touching him/her. The person/opponent could actually be on the other side of the world.
     
  8. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    LOL! + 1,000,000,000

    If you disagree I will mind punch you wherever you may be!!! :D
     
  9. eyeofstorm

    eyeofstorm Valued Member

    This sort of cr@p is what prevents people from taking the internal arts seriously. It isn't a fantasy world or science fiction and you can't physically affect someone on the other side of the world with your qi. If you think that's for real show us someone who can to that.
    You have heard wrong my friend or maybe you are just posting some anal spewings to get a rise out of serious practitioners.
     
  10. KFSON

    KFSON Valued Member

    I am posting what I have experienced, my friend.
    Not only the above, but one's physical movements can be manipulated by someone else's mind, such as punching oneself in one's own face against one's will.

    If you don't like that reality, that is acceptable.
     
  11. eyeofstorm

    eyeofstorm Valued Member

    Where and how did you get this information? Have you personally witnessed this? I'm always interested in tracking down the origins of this kind of claim.
     
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I'm also very interest in this. I have tried to experience this all my life and I still don't have any luck yet. One Qi master could make a room full of people to move like zombies. He charged $450 a person. I had my check in my pocket but I did not participate that day and I just watched. Later on I offered him $10,000 if he could move me without touching. He finally decided not to accept my offer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  13. KFSON

    KFSON Valued Member

    I do not have these abilities but have been the recipient. All you have to do is google "spiritual alchemy". This is in Daoist, Zen, Hindi, and western traditions such as Rosicrucians, O.T.O, Templars, etc.
     
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If someone does posses this ability,

    "one's physical movements can be manipulated by someone else's mind, such as punching oneself in one's own face against one's will."

    Do you think US government will pay him big money and send him to the battle field and complete missions that nobody else can do?
     
  15. KFSON

    KFSON Valued Member

    I'm not really interested, but I think the U.S. government has a group of people like that.
     
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    There is one in Taiwan too:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7mP59MhCks&feature=player_embedded"]Ba Gua Zhang å…«å¦æŽŒ---圓明武學柔身八å¦æŽŒé„­æœçƒœè€å¸«æ•™å­¸æ´»å‹•å´éŒ„å›› - YouTube[/ame]

    http://wushu.net.tw/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=1542&extra=page=1&page=1
     
  17. KFSON

    KFSON Valued Member

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  18. ANGELSGYMSINGH

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    Eye of Storm... I know you are upset with the mystical comment of our brother here but we both know some things spoken in an unfamiliar context or environment may seem inappropriate. Let me present to you a film:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmHam7Fpyak"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmHam7Fpyak[/ame]

    This man made a comment that makes me believe he is very conversant and familiar with such presentations of skill and the scientific understanding of it:

    "Neither faking nor telekinesis. Action at 2:00 Ma set up oscillations that upset balance. Search for: Manipulation of forward estimation of movement state, by Grant Mulliken. Opponents apply force and Ma leads them into emptiness. 2) Use deep fascia instead of muscle. Standing meditation (stress) converts fibroblasts to myofibroblasts used in the subtle, rapid, muscle-like expansion/ contraction we call chi. His art is the result of years of philosophical research and training. Not magic!"

    What Grandmaster Ma is showing is far from what our brother is talking about but what the master presents to us is an accomplishable goal that to most seems impossible but to those who are tirelessly practicing... a realistic goal. And if this then what else is possible?

    GM&Dr. Stier, who mentors me in TCM, gave me great encouragement after seeing and correcting some of my training regimines to meet my intended goals of inner cultivation and outer demonstration of MA training. He said to me, "you have all that you need, but.... don't make it happen, let it happen". Such a comment 10 years ago would have had me respond emotionally, OK Buddha what in the heck does that mean. But now after demonstrating some rather unusual and unexpected manifestations in front of my students but not being able to control these phenomena or at-will (continuously) demonstrate them the comment has some value to me.

    KFSON and Eyeofstorm we all practice arts that require a conquest of fear and the courage to endure loss and pain to accomplish what is to many people unusual feats of mental, phyisical and spiritual noteworthyness. This is because we are serious practitioners who are willing to do what is impossible to some to achieve it....

    Eyeofstorm you are obviously a practical, hardworking MA practitioner who knows what it took to be as proficient in your art as you currently are. I have come to humbly believe that faith in my Art aint got nothing to do with believing in anything. It comes from knowing that the process to achieve what I have faith in will get me there. In the example presented in the film I know what is possible and that my training is a process that will equal or surpass that ability if I keep the faith. It is in this vein that I can understand your disbelief because such a possibility is not the goal of your training path, even as that path is very effective towards the goals you have set with it. Perhaps KFSON's training path is set towards the goals he has witnessed, even as this path is most likely just as effective. I think a Martial Artist is only limited by his/her imagination and perserverance... Both of you brothers are serious MA practitioners to me because I have learned form both....

    Thanks to you both for the posts Warriors... G
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  19. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    Faith has nothing to do with it. If you shoot someone, it doesn't matter what their believes are, the mass, speed, tradjectory and shape of the bullet can create a greater force than what the victems skull can withstand despite their beliefs.

    You can work on your "chi" all you want, that doesn't make it any more real. If I told you that eating the souls of invisible hedge hogs was an effective way of building inner strength, you'd have about the same amount of proof.

    If your ability really relies on faith, than I suggest you find some new abilities.
     
  20. ANGELSGYMSINGH

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    White Panda,
    Nice to meet ya bro. I am sure you are not following the point of my post. However, I do get the point of yours: If you can't see it, feel it or do it then it doesn't exist. I never said present ability relies on faith bro. I say that faith is based on a personal experience which instills a knowledge or wisdom concerning ones training path and in ones self to perservere in order to reach an imagined and desired goal.

    The fact is, is that I don't know you and have not seen what you can do or how you train, but if I had observed and learned all these things about you... and found you a viable source to learn from... and my training path was to build inner strength beyond what I already have and at that time did not have a training reginmine to endure to reach my goal... and you presented the eating of the souls of hedge hogs and then presented an experience that convinced me that this was a viable method... well... I am not sure I would follow that training regimine but I would have to say you definitely had a method to achieve my goal... as nasty as that method might appear to be... lol..

    Point is... to me Faith is based on experience or in other words "Knowledge", personal or otherwise, and as such even though I have goals that I have not achieved in MA... I know that they will be achieved because I have Faith in the training process I am pursuing... For right now I have already reached an ability that a year ago would have been impossible... To look beyond the slighted attack you just posted and see a benevolent blogger who I can learn from no matter the provacative nature of the source... Hope this post finds you well.... G
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010

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