I have several questions regarding Daito-ryu Aiki Jujutsu (DAJ). I have practiced Aikido for several years now on and off as time permits. Recently a friend of mine sparked some interest in DAJ - So I did a search and came up with this site: http://www.daito-ryu.org/index.html As well as an short article here: http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=130 I got a bit more info - but I still have several questions: 1) How different in terms of technique are Aikdo and DAJ? How much of what I've learned in Aikido would transfer to DAJ? 2) DAJ having been a pre-war style does that mean it is a 'harder' form than Aikido? 3) On average is there more of a grappling/ground work element to DAJ than in your average Aikido? 4) Are there differences between the two in terms of how joint locks and throws are applied? 5) Is there more of a striking element to DAJ than Aikido? 6) Are there many places to study DAJ? And how important is the whole 'lineage' issue when choosing a place to study DAJ? (I realize that many of you are in the UK or other places where I am not but I am still interested to know how popular/available it is in your region) Any answers or pointers to articles or threads that could answer it are greatfully appreciated.
I have no clue the answers to your questions. However, even if I did have the answers, you have to consider that training in a school today could easily be much different than training in a school one hundred years ago. The techniques could be different, the training atmosphere, the culture, the size of the students and their abilities, the instructor, etc. If you want to try out DAJ then you really can only try out what is available today. So do your questions pertain to what DAJ was like one hundred years ago, or to what it is like today?
I realize that by and large training in DAJ today will differ significantly from era's past. My questions are particular to training DAJ now. Hope that clarifies it a bit more.
Yeah it should, all you need now is someone who has experience in DAJ to come forth and post something. I have some references showing what it might have been like both technique wise and training wise almost one hundred years ago, but I don't have anything to show what it might be like today, nor do I have any personal experience with it outside of what I learned in Aikido.
are those references you speak of perhaps online - something I could click a link to and read up? As it would still be of interest to see what the score was back then - even though my original intent on the post was aimed at what current DAJ training is like.
No they are old books. The internet did not exist back then...lol. I might be able to find something online though.
Books? err... what button do I press?!?!? lol. Any titles/authors with ISBN numbers would be appreciated. When you get a chance of course. Thanks in advance.
Hey a found this interview with Daito-Ryu’s Okabayashi Sensei http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=315 Great article that contains a lot of good information in it. One part that seemed relevant to the question of the differences between Aikido and Daito-Ryu, talked about footwork. The footwork of the samurai was more single line than that of Aikido. I'm not exactly sure what exactly these techniques are, but I would add from personal experience and after having come back through surgery from rupturing both my achilles tendons, and simply getting older, I use a lot more stepping and using gravity for subtle movements than I used to in my karate days. I use a lot less jumping, springing, and pushing off moves these days. I can see some definite advantages to the footwork done the way described in the article.
Here is a link to his website which explains his quest to preserve the best of this ancient art in his 'Hakuho' style. His own lineage is impeccable from what I can see. I have trained with him VERY briefly and he is truly awesome both unarmed and with a katana. He visits the UK occasionally and offers a few classes. There is also a video (probably now a DVD) he has created. Yoshinkan (more linear and hard style aikido) is not so very different, but the DaitoRyu hitoemi 'same hand same foot' method of walking is something I've never seen anywhere else. Very strong emphasis on the centre line is a shared obsession with Yoshinkan style and this DaitoRyu walking style is performed with hands resting palm down on the front of the thighs as each step is driven positively from the hip in a sliding motion. This seems to me to provide a strong stable posture at all times, even when walking with more and more bent legs until in shikko 'knee walking' posture. Some of the Daito Ryu techniques,like applied shiho-nage, seemed to despatch Uke behind Tori but where I had learned in aikido to follow the uke at least with my gaze, Daito Ryu maintains a forward posture (This MA is designed for a battle not a dojo, so it is assumed Uke is dead or badly damaged and Tori needs to deal with the next attacker in front of him). I'm going back over 5 years so please forgive any faults in my memory . http://www.izzy.net/~dsharp/hakuho.htm
i studied aikido for 12 years and have now moved more into aikijujutsu. I study the kogusoku system under my 5th dan sensei. He appointed me as his sempai (temporaily when he was ill), to take the class because i knew aikido. Now my aikido has helped greatly in this respect and a lot of the stuff is similar. But for every aikido version of a technique there is ALWAYS an aikijuts version of the same technique. Its is very much more direct, no flowery tenkans. Bear in mind it is a battlefield art, where the combatants would likely to be wearing full armour, where you can't jump around like a rabbit. In our class we have to finish every technique with a takedown and throat slit from a tanto, which adds in to the technique the fact that we have to make sure uke is immobilised with the left had, leaving the right hand to draw the tanto and cut the throat/back of neck. There doesn't seem to be much grappling, as it tends to point towards counter, atemi, and takedown with killing blow. I've only been studying a year and have a great deal yet to learn. It may also differ still from traditional daityo ryu you are asking about, i will ask my sensei tomorrow, and post my answers for you. One thing though, i bloody love it and feel that if i was looking for practical application, then some of my latter years studying aikido have been wasted
The Shihonage I was taught should end with uke landing behind or at least to the side (depending on the momentum in the technique). I was also taught to never gaze or stare at my attacker and when dealing with multiple attackers to move directly to the next attacker as soon as I have dealt with the first.
Hitoemi Most classical forms of Japanese bujutsu which are based upon weapon work follow the 'moving in one line' concept that is espoused in by Okabayashi sensei's Daito-ryu.
Behind who or what? If I sheonage you, you will fall in the direction of your own backside. But that's the direction of my front side, because your wrist is my "katana" and I'm cutting with my katana in front of me. Does that sound right to you?
Uke should land behind or to the side of nage (from my perspective). When we apply Shihonage we drop uke straight to the floor instead of cutting infront. The idea is to try and eliminate the oppertunity for counters and to stop nage resorting to using the shoulder muscles to force the technique to work. With that said however your example does make sense Mac. Some of our shihonage techniques do end with uke landing in front of nage. One such technique would be when shihonage is applied from a sitting position. Here nage doesn't have the same mobility and must lead uke around their body more to get to a favourable position to apply the technique.
Hmm. I can see uke landing next to me if I cut my "sword" all the way to his feet. That's not a problem. But landing behind me -- interesting. I'll give that a try next time.
Okay, I can picture that in my mind now. High enough momentum -- sure, I can see that in my head. Thanks.
God it's so hard without video! The DRA Jujutsu techniques I saw/experienced taught by Okabayashi Sensei left Tori facing front while Uke was despatched behind. Imagine dropping to your right knee and sending Uke over your right shoulder from a very fast applied seionage. NO turning, no 'finishing' with a tanto - the Uke smashes to the ground and you meet the next one attacking from the front. The closest we got to this technique in our Shudokan (Yoshinkan derived style) was a suwari seionage defence to a yokomen which brought Uke back to our right side ready for a tanto finish. Daito Ryu rocks - even on the mean modern streets IMHO it would be effective due to its battle focus - mental and physical. As we are able to perform ukemi we sometimes forget that a good technique which send Uke crashing into the ground may kill or maim without a follow-up. We also know that the harder and faster we are attacked, the more joy we may have in sending Uke nto the deck. Don't know about armour, but my guess is they don't get up again!
