The kata debate 2010

Used notes only please

What experience do you have in Japanese kata based system Van Zandt?

Gary

 

Finally, the anti-kata brigade show up. About bloody time. Pass the marshmallows and popcorn.

 

if we're talking about kickboxing, any karateka that can't kickbox is a bad one, since kboxing not only came from karate, but is also about 15 or so karate/tkd moves in a boxing framework...

let's see; straight punch, hook, uppercut, spinning backfist, front kick, roundhouse kick, side kick, back kick, back roundhouse kick, hook kick, axe kick, maybe crescent kick and pseudo ridge-hand (aka haymaker cause of gloves). add tkd or boxing footwork, some boxing bobbing and weaving, and boxing's way of throwing the above punches, and you have kickboxing

 

Even more than "sport krotty" and Olympic TKD?

I think you mean "sport krotty." Heh, maybe so, but even "sport krotty" sparring is more effective for combat training than kata.

I'm not sure if your '"American teenagers doing sumo-style grappling" is positive or negative. If so, I don't think it's fair to state two types of wrestling at the negative end of the spectrum. Perhaps you should have said something along the lines of, "Wrestling can mean anything from collegiate greco-roman athletes to two fat guys... etc."

Maybe so. But at least they don't insist on kata

 

I dunno. I tend to regard 'american kickboxing' as a ******* offspring. Or at least a mongrel. How can you box with your feet flat on the floor?

 

Wado up to 1st kyu when I was a laddie, and more recently, Shukokai.

I should point out that I'm using "kata" as a collective term to include Korean patterns (poomse, tul or hyung), of which I have far more experience with. Although they have different names, the principles of my argument apply all the same.

 

My flamethrower needed airing.

 

Neither - it was just the best top-of-my-head description of the one where American high school kids wear those funny ear guards and try and push each other over.

 

I would call myself a kickboxer. My style uses only the jab, cross, lead hook, lead uppercut, side kick, roundhouse kick and hook kick. Works for me.

You reminded me of another point, which I forgot to raise in my original post. Katas can be an overloading of (unrealistic) techniques. I doubt many people could remember all of their kata techniques in a fight, never mind the infinite number of bunkai applications. I advocate keeping it simple and workable.

 

Blimey, there's me thinking you must have had a lot more experience in order to form such a considered opinion?

So you got to brown belt when you were a kid - ok!!!???

 

Most kickboxers (even those who do 'American kickboxing' - like me) have always fought up on the balls of their feet.

 

And I do love it when it comes out that peoples "experience" in Karate is in Wado - makes me feel much more at home.

Gary

 

You asked me for my experience in a Japanese kata based system.

I also stated that the principles of my argument apply to Korean patterns, which is where the majority of my experience lies. I trained in Taekwondo for 22 years, reaching black belt level in two different systems.

Just 'coz I'm not a Jap MAist doesn't mean I can't slate kata* :woo:

* A general term for TMA mandancing

 

It does really fella, as clearly you don't have enough experience to understand "how" they work.

Gary

 

Guys, I'm not sure his experience matters. Even if he'd never done any MA in his life, he'd still have a right to an opinion. Your mental faculties are not significantly enlarged during martial arts training.

 

Heh. Funnily enough I hear that a lot when Pro Kata campaigners get defensive.

Bit like religious nuts when I present evidence supporting the absence of God.

 

Everyone has a right to an opinion - the best however are considered ones.

Here we have a guy clearly "panning" Kata because (in his view) it holds no martial value, however it is clear that he has never had the reasons behind training them explained (it’s not bunkai btw).

Now that's not the lad’s fault, but just cause you don't get it, doesn't mean you have authoritative right to dismiss it.

Familiar ground aint it Knight?

Gary

 

You're going to have to do a lot better than that Van - if you want to keep up with Knight.

What was it "Conceited London Twerp"

Gary

 

I'm now backing away from this one, for very good reasons...

 

Aww come on, don't light the blue touch paper then run away - this is just getting good.

Gary