Your head to a gun.

There is no way to get out of this situation cause on the street people play unfair and carry guns and knives. A knife is a lot simpler to get out of then a gun. What would you do? The only way is to get lucky and have a chamber of the gun be unfiled then when they pull the trigger your not dunbar. :woo:
Then you have a chance to trip them and get the hell out.

 

I think you have been moon-gazing a little too much.

Also, I think you mean Chicago.

This was not a serious post.

Ok, it was in a way.

It's 3:29, I need to go to bed.

 

Plead for my life ? Say a prayer ? Die?

I would try to stop the bullet mentally by psychic force , but i'm not sure it it would work

Its 5:40 am here i definetly should go to bed ...

 

Ask the guy not to shoot you.

 

Poke him in the eye. That way, as he's celebrating around your dead body, he's celebrating with one freakin' eye.

 

Theres always a way out of a situation. And besides, my head is bullet proof so i wouldnt die..

 

Don't wander around in Condition White like a sheep, watch your 6, and stay off da str337z.

As to your statment about a knife, mmmm, do you study any FMA? A knife never jams or runs out of ammo.

 

Okay, I'm no criminal expert, but I'd assume that if they didn't just put a cap in yo head, they want to rob you or take you to somewhere else to do awful things to you (you will die or wish you had).

In the case of robbing, they'll probably only shoot you if they panic. So keep calm. Also, the gun is uni-directional, so taking yourself out of the line of the barrel will keep you from getting shot. Standard gun disarms work for this.

Remove yourself from the line of fire --> Control the gun --> Deliver a damaging strike (chin jabs or throat chops will work wonders) --> Disarm --> Escape

Also a gun to your head is easier to move away from than say a gun to the chest. This is because the head is more mobile and is a smaller target.

(Another fact for you - most people carrying guns will most likely not be accurate shooters, and the handgun will not be likely to hit you if you're running away. Try running in a zigzag.)

 

Not true. The only advantage guns have over knives is they can work from longer range. Up close knives will win. A gun can only attack in one direction, whereas a knife can cut and stab with every movement. Also, a bullet will often go straight through you, leaving a nice clean hole. A knife on the other hand will tear muscles, cut blood vessels, tendons and ligaments and can get embedded in your body.

 

I've had this argument before and I agree with the above technique except for the strike coming before the disarming of the weapon. It is too risky to try any strikes with your opponent still armed. Make him drop the weapon then pulverise him. If your strike is not perfect and he still has the gun you in deep doo doo.

 

Of all the possible gun defense scenarios, this is actually one of the easiest. If the gun was withing 10 feet but less than 3 feet, then there would be problems.

Most people think that a gun is a panaea. There is no defense. So let me begin to debunk:

If the person is holding the gun to your head and has not immediately pulled the trigger, you've got a fighting change. Side note for weapons, if someone really wants you dead, has a weapon and has any form of strategy, you are dead already because they WILL NOT SHOW YOU THE ATTACK. Period. I'm going to assume since the gun is on my head, but I'm not dead yet, then I have room to work.

Ok big rule here: in general, the person with iniative typically wins (at least at first). In other words, you can move faster that they can react if you move first and with commitment.

So against this scenario we apply the five rules/progression of good weapons defense:
1. Get off the line of the weapon
2. At the same time isolate the weapon
3. Check and ensure the weapon will not re-enter combat
4. Punsh the core of the body as quickly and dramatically as possible
5. Disarm the weapon if possible

So before anything else happens, work to get your hands in front of you and in a non violent (palms facing forward position). Often there is a command of hands up, so this is cool.

Consider asking a pattern inturrupt distaction, ie a question, as this will slow down reaction time further.

Now things get good: drop at the same time using your hands to raise the gun. Drive the gun away from you as you move away from it. Rules 1 and 2.

Next DO NOT WRESTLE WITH THE GUN OR IMMEDIATELY ATTEMPT A DISARM! The reason for this is that you have not done anything to cause the person to weaken his grip or not to resist. which means your getting into a protracted battle for the weapon. Its during those battles that weapons travel repeatedly across bodies and you have the highest chance of getting shot.

Instead move inside the range of the gun by surging forward and preferably to the outside of the weapon. Maintain a check on the weapon arm, not necessraily a grab, and get real close to the person. Use your body to prevent the gun from reentering combat.

And now punish. Chose the most dehabilitating strikes and targets and don't stop. The person has attempted to kill you, there in no reason to mamby pamby this. You need to be out to completely disable them. Elbows to the face are a good choice here due to range and relative damage ability.

Ok now that you've hopefully seriously hurt him and kept track of the gun, go for the disarm. There shouldn't be too much resistance. If there is go back to the punish phase. Lather, rinse repeat.

Note that this entire thing needs to occur in a matter of seconds. And it can.

The gun may go off. Provided you're off line then you may have to deal with power burns and possible temporary deafness and blindness. Stay close, fight close, punish. It will most likely get you though.

You may be shot. That's worse. But considering that you started out with a gun to your head, consider yourself already dead and work your way back to life. People survive gun shots. People survive shots to the head. Just because you're shot, or for that matter stabbed or slashed, doesn't mean your dead. Stay close, fight close, punish. Again, it's your best chance.

Guns are not necessarly more dangerous than knives. Once you get out of that 10 foot range, the average person can't hit you with a single shot. That's why people spray with automatics. Under thirty feet, the knife is far more dangerous belive it or not. As a knife weilding person can cross a 10 yard distance before most defenders can draw, disengage safetym, c-o-c-k, aim and fire a gun.

Anyway, just because you have a gun to your head doesn't mean you are dead.

- Matt

 

Out of the line of fire.
Control the weapon.
Disarm.

There is no other option.

Fighting someone with elbows or kicks is rediculous if he still has posession of the weapon. IT is better to learn how to get the gun/knife away from your attacker. There is always the possibility that you might be shot. Very scary!
If you start hitting after you have controlled the weapon you must let go of control. When you do this you increase the risk of being shot or stabbed. Save your hitting until the weapon is safely beyond reach.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I have seen this played out with live training weapons. The gun was loaded with chalk rounds. The scenario was against the chest.

In every case the person who went for the core attack was able to overwhelm the attacker. And IN EVER CASE, the person going for the disarm right off the bat successfully got the gun off the body and got themselves out of the way. And every time, due to the amount of adrenaline pumping through them (this is a live weapon) botched the disarm. And in EVERY CASE, got into a wrestling match for the gun. And while wrestling moved back into the path of the weapon. Why? Because we are strongest in tight, directly in front of the body. And so we have a natural drive to bring the fight were we are the strongest. And while wrestling the gun, discharged multiple times shooting those people in the leg and the chest. And none of the people who got into the wrestling matches were low level people.

And I'm not just the president of the hair club, but I'm also a client. I worked against the live gun and there is no question that you are more prepared to strike than to disarm.

Do research on weapons. Any tactical weapons art will advocate stiking before disarms. There are certain moves that will allow you to get into a locking position, but even then there's usually a love tap or two before a disarm is attempted.

You never need to lose control of the weapon. You body postioning can maintain the check. Or you strike with a single hand (I don't really advocate the use of legs in these situations). And if you've successfully move beyond and in back of the weapon, it's difficult to reenage the weapon in that close range, especially when being overpowered with strikes.

- Matt

 

Well, I think that we have reached an impass on this subject. We need to agree to disagree on this point. I think that you have indeed studied this matter long and hard, but so have I. Self defense against a weapon makes up a very large percentage of our martial arts training. While I think that you make good points, I will defer to the teachings of my sensei who is a career martial artist and a seasoned body guard.
The ability to disarm comes from practice. I'm not sure what you are practicing, but I know that the disarming techniques that I have been taught will work. So often I see poor grabs of the weapon ( gun) or controlling wrist (knife) that will never be able to wrestle the weapon from the attacker. I suppose if you have a poor control you might be better off striking, but there are too many veriables at large if your strike fails.
By the way. I have yet to see a full contact self defense practice that works. Unless your uki is willing to have his arm broken or his eyes gouged out you never really know if your technique will do as you intend. I know that I have taken some pretty full contact strikes in kumite and I could still control a weapon if I had won. On the other hand if my elbow or wrist were to be broken or dislocated I do not think that firing the weapon would be the first thing on my mind.
We can continue going back and forth, but I think that it is pointless. You obviously will stick by your training as will I and I respect you for that.

 

Fair points Goju. I'll be happy to agree to disagree. And I also retract the "wrong, wrong, wrong" as I was typing fast and not thinking through what I was posting enough.

- Matt

 

wow, this is an interesting thread. although i'm fairly confident i can get out of a knife muggins situation because the average street thug doesn't really know how to use it, i always thought that the best response to a gun weilding mugger is to just hand over the wallet. i've been robbed at knife point once- by three guys, that was like... 11-12 years ago, and i'm not really into MA yet- but i'm glad i've never been mugged at gunpoint.

 

According to ex-SAS soldiers, if attackers are holding you up within arms reach, it is in fact quite easy to disarm them. You use speed and agression to move his arm out of the way. You only ned to move the gun 6 inches, and chances are it's not aimed at you anymore. Then disarm him and run like you're backside is on fire. With a pistol, it is extremely hard to hit a moving person from 10-20 metres away.

 

if they don't shoot you with in 60 secs they are unlikley to do so

it is easier psychologicaly for the average(90%+) human being to shoot a person lying down than standing up.. try not to lie down if they ask you too

BUT

in general do as they say

Boris
London

 

the imperitive for the SAS man to escape the situation is very likley to be different...

Boris
London

 

Just a quick note. If you do succesfully disarm a weapon, try not to pick it up, unless you absolutely have to, try to kick it away.

Say for instance 2 guys attack you with a knife, you defend yourself and one of them gets injured. The knife drops. If you pick it up you then have your fingerprints on it, chance of blood from knife on you and 2 peoples word against one.