defence against MT kicks

ok cool. One more question. The last 2 heavy bags i purchased i noticed the hardest part is the bottom of the bag maybe because i guess the sand settles down there. I currently have a 100lbs. everlast heavy bag. Should i focus my kicks down at the bottom of the bag when training to condition my shins? Any suggestions from anyone? Thanks in advance

 

Yeah bro this is where good conditioning starts. In a very large way this is where all the muscle memory is drilled into shape. This is where you reprogram your central nervous system. Endurance is a huge factor in MT... this is why so many novice fighters resort to brawling when they're early in their fight career... because they run out of steam to use their legs like the kicking pistons that God and the Thai's designed them to be.

But hey man... it's only up from here... you have 5X5's and then 10X10's to look forward to. Hahaha... yeah to be honest... 10X10's are bloody murder. :cry:

 

Yes a heavy bag will settle over time... more or less depending on what it's actually stuffed with... often times there is no sand in bags anymore... more often it's cotton rag or rubber trimmings and the like... but anyhow...

You want to have three basic ranges worked out for your kicks... low/mid/high

Low is a shin kick to their lower shin... remember these are easy to check and really I don't see many people pull them off very well... it's a technique that relies heavily on timing and footwork. But give them a go anyhow... just don't expect to use them all that often honestly... they really require good footwork and timing if you want to land them against an opponent that has half a clue.

Mid is the kick to the ribs... it's got it's risks... the opponents elbows being the primary one... but if you land one... it's a good pay day as the opponent will know it. Important not to leave you kick out there... if it gets grabbed... you gotta get busy or your getting dumped or punched. So don't leave kicks out there for grabby hands to get busy with. Stick em and get out. A great area to aim the mid level kick for is up into the armpit... you can literally kick someones arm right out of the socket... exactly that happened in the 2004 Kings Cup in Bangkok... I'll see if I can dig up the footage... terrifying to watch... what was crazier is the Thai fought... for almost an entire round with his shoulder out of the socket.... I'm crying just thinking about it. :cry:

High is all about upper arms/neck/head... I prefer the neck over the head any day really... it's softer... has a good chance of a nice clean KO and easier to reach than the head. You can often use your foot to catch the back of the neck and help pull the opponent down to the canvas. It requires good footing and flexibility... I find that with high kicks lots of guys throw them as a desperate move... big mistake... they throw them desperately with little confidence... meaning... a kick you can suck up if you have to. On the other hand... someone with confidence and throwing with power and accuracy is a scary creature indeed. High kicks can also be thrown to the upper arms... it will deaden the arms and you will start to notice and opponents guard creep down. The Kings Cup in 2004 had a nice little forearm breakage due to heavy high kicks from a Thai. Just brutal. It's in the same bout as I mention above.

I'll see if I can dig up some footage.

 

Slip, you mean Sakmongkol vs Perry Ubeda? 2nd round shoulder poped out, 5th round arm broke (so they say).

 

Ya man those kicks add up quick, I suck at math but I counted them like this.

2x2s= 1kick, 2kicks
that makes 3kicks
those 3 kicks repeated 10 times per leg makes 60
times 3 rounds makes 180 kicks, unless im counting wrong somewhere.

It's kinda like the 1/2/3 conditioning drill
1 Pullup
2 pushups
3 squats
do as many as possible in 20 minutes, that stuff adds uop quick, I dont even know what 10x10s feel like!

I know what you mean with bloody murder the 2x2s left me gasping for air like no tomorrow. There's only one thing nagging me, with all this talk about muscle memory, repetition beeing the mother of learning afterall, I might be training my nervous system the wrong way. I mean my MT roundhouse technique is subpar at best, I've never had anyone qualified teach me the MT style roundhouse, would I be better off doing my bad immitation for the next 2 months or just go ahead and do the roundhouse I learned in Kung Fu?

Thing is I dont want to compound bad habits and have to do extra damage control once I do start training MT... What do ya'll think?

I started that thread on sport specific conditioning (other than sparring) for striking arts in the cardio section if you fellas wanna take a look.

Thanks in advance.

edit:
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

MY FRIGGIN "EVERLAST" 140lb HEAVYBAG RIPPED EARLIER! IT ALREADY HAD A LITTLE TEAR IN IT A WEEK AGO SO I WENT AHEAD AND TAPED THE CRAP OUT OF IT, NOW TODAY RIGHT BEFORE I GOT DONE WITH MY LAST 2X2 ROUND THE SUCKER RIPPED ALMOST ALL THE WASY THROUGH, THE TEAR IS LIKE A COUPLE OF INCHES BELOW THE VERY TOP OF THE BAG WHERE THE HINGES ARE, I GOT NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THAT!

would a heavy duty fishing line do if i started sewing it? or some kind of really thick thread/leather bands? and then duck tape the hell out of it sopme more?

and no i dont have the recipt any more
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

really strong tape, gaffer tape might do but you can get stronger

 

Dont point you knee at a kick,as Slip says you narrow the blocking area down to much,tuck the heel under a bit and catch the kick on your knee/upper shin,thats a much safer way to go

 

I looked up the gaffer tape, that just might be what I need, thanks. Do you think trying to sew it together and then taping it is a bad idea? I mean the leather that the bag is made out of is strong and thick but the holes caused by the needle might make the bag tear in different places right?

what other kind of heavy duty tapes are out there that might help? I really dont feel like buying another $120 bag after only 1 year of using it on and off. Hell I really just started using it on a regular basis about 2 weeks ago!

 

That'd be the one!
Though I'm curious why you added 'so they say' as if you don't believe thathis forearm was broken. I think if you watch the fight it's pretty clear that he took some heavy kicks to the forearm... after the battle he fought he's not going to just lay down in the 5th round.

 

Push kicks/teep/front kick

I hate them, i get caught all the time, whether it be karate or MMA.

 

I added 'so they say', because the commentators are criminally bad at the video i was watching ([ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVbppMcHXY"]Sakmongkol vs Perry Ubeda - YouTube[/ame]) and they immediately started yelling all sorts of things, from "his shoulder poped out" to "his elbow broke". Little credibility there. But considering the quality of fighters, i have no doubt Ubeda's injury had to be a very nasty one, to make him give up in the 5th round like that.

 

Yeah, you know what you're talking about more thna Vunak: you've never seen the technique, you've never been demonstrated the technique, and you've never attempted the technique. I know you were somehow involved in promoting muy thai fights--but there's more to fighting than oiling down fighters, ringing the bell, and marching out into the ring with the round number painted on a big placard.

You don't bend your knee, raise it, and aim it at an incoming kick like trying to knock a missle out of the sky with a pebble. Original Poster, check out the RAT system, ignore the ignorant. The second you see the kick, your "knee check" is a snap like motion (bending your leg so your heel snaps toward the back of your thigh), and then it's a simple shift of your hips/ leg to point it low, med, or high, wherever the kick is coming from.

It's not hard like Slip is trying to make out; it's easy.

You don't really hit the kick with your knee, he hits your knee with his shin. It is excruciating when it hits just right (it's the same concept as an elbow crush in JKD/ FMA). Now again, his kick COULD injur your knee. What I found was that mostly you just block the kick, but for me it's about 1 out of 10 that you happen to peg his shin just right, and it causes a lot of pain. When you first try it with your training partner, believe me, start only at 15% power, or the guy kicking is going to by in agony (maybe not so much if he is a pro muy thai ring fighter [like slip]).

And who the heck are you? I'm trying to help the poster with some different options--you just want to flap you jaw. You're a nobody in the MA world. An absolute nobody, questioning one of the top self-defense trainers in the world, Vunak. I wouldn't cross the street to spit on your advice, Mr. White belt.

Slip, the OP asked how to deal with Muy Thai kicks. He never said just in a muy thai ring. If you are fighting muy thai in a ring, I suggest he follow your advise about kicking drills and conditioning your shins. I actually have used this technique vs people sparring with me throwing their muy thai kicks. Works just fine. If one wants a shortcut for self-defense, I suggest the OP look into Vunak's system. You've built a big strawman as usual, and boy, are you impressive ripping the stuffing out of it, Slip....

Maybe chambering isn't the right term... I know what your'e saying, Slip. What I mean is the second the kick is telegraphed (the instant you realise the kick is coming, ie, the attacker moves his hips/ shoulders or bends/ raises the kicking leg), jam that very leg with a stomp or kick. Like hitting a whip before it passes the halfway mark on its loop. It's just a bloody stop hit, sorry if you've never seen one or had it done to you.

Look into Kung Fu and JKD, it's not some obscure technique or big secret (well, for some of us, I guess...)

 

lol... and you're not the first theorist to step up and propose this sort of nonsense. I seriously doubt that you've ever used this technique in the ring against a pedigree Muay Thai fighter - not in the sanctioned amatuer ring... not in the sanctioned professional ring. That righ there says a whole lot about your theory.

There's a reason why it's not popped up in the Muay Thai arsenal... because it'd have an abysmally low rate of success. You can nuthug Vunak all you want... he's actually got some great stuff... but that doesn't make this concept of blocking a roundhouse any more realistic.

That you've gotten your panties so knotted over my post is some serious insight into the insecurity you have.

Man you display a stunning ignorance here. Yes we realize you're trying to be clever... but it ain't working out for you... find a new schtick.

In case you hadn't guessed it fight promotion doesn't involve corner work. Try talking about something you have an idea about... not trying to slag someone off only end up embarrassing yourself with your own ignorance parade.

I'll help ya a little:

1) Promoters don't oil down fighters - cornermen would be out of a job
2) They certainly don't ring the bell (LOL! you freakin' noob)
3) and since you couldn't figure it out... the person marching around the ring with the round number on a placard is the ring girl... (I'd have thought the pneumatic boobs and the t-back would have been a big enough clue for you but I guess not)

hahahah.... a spectacular case of an analogy that works against you.
Of course it's exactly like trying to knock a missle out of the sky with a pebble... that ain't gonna happen... not now... not yesteryear... not when you're old and living in a trailer park and on welfare.

err... if it's soooo easy... why is it not being used in Muay Thai fights on a regular basis... surely it'd be legal under the rules and surely fighters would use any ring legal techniques that could help them to win right?

So where is the deadly technique that is so easy?

What fights have you tried it in?

At what Muay Thai gym/ring?

Surely if this technique is so great then there must be at least one vid somewhere of someone who's used it in a Muay Thai bout no?

Hahahahaha... this shows how much of a clown you are (and that you're a valuable resource for sig material here at MAP).

The OP was asking for advice on checking MT kicks... not on fantasy moves that you've read about in Vunaks work. You'd do more help to not interject fantasy nonsense into threads in the MT forum.

and errr... and in case you didn't guess it... there are no belts in Muay Thai. But keep up with attempts at being clever it's only you who you're making look silly. I think your obsession with being somebody in the MA world is just that... your obsession. Yawn.

You really haven't got an idea of what 'straw man' means if you think I built one. Please go back and outline why it's a straw man. Quote it. You won't because you can't... because you're using words you don't understand.

Seriously can you post any evidence of this technique working against a MT roundhouse? Surely if it's so uber-deadly as you claim... so effective... so laden with the sweat off of Vunaks golden nutsack then surely there must be footage out there right?

I'm curious which bit of Vunaks stuff you gleaned this gem off of? I've got tons of his stuff on vid... mind to point out where I might hear his explanation of it?

You fail to realize that many kicks aren't telegraphed. The vast majority of the ones that catch people out aren't telegraphed. That's exactly why they catch people.. LOL!

You're under some serious delusions on what happens in Muay Thai bouts and Muay Thai in general... which is no surprise because correct me if I'm wrong but you've never actually fought a Muay Thai bout. Not sanctioned amatuer... not professional. So in short you're simply regurgitating what you saw on Vunak vids on YouTube.

Nice one.... but you should work more on constructing coherent arguments rather than trying to sound cute with your absurd analogies and parading your ignorance of Muay Thai.

The rest of MAP is subjected to your bizarre mood fluxuations and ever shifting allegiances to arts and mentors on an almost daily basis... please don't drag the MT forum down into the morass with you.

 

Vunak the world class Trapper ha ha ha ha

 

Yeah agreed those commentators aren't the tops... but to shed light on the situation... they'd be guessing as anyone would if they're commentating and not actually in the fighters corner. So that they've speculated isn't really all that shocking. So I don't really thinks it's an issue of credibility to be honest - as much as it is one of production values (or lack thereof).

Having worked on a promotion at the Kings Cup I can tell you that it's actually surprisingly low budget in terms of production values.

Given how hard Ubeda had to work to make it to the Kings Cup I can't see him throwing the fight for any reason. The fact that he waved off the fighter and threw in the towel with as little fanfare as possible says to me that he was genuinely very hurt.

lol... besides... Sakmongkol is known as having a massive wooden piston as a leg.

 

I dont remember seing the fight but i imagine P Ubeda blocked or should i say took the kicks on the arm,this is a no no in Muay Thai,turn the wrists and the elbows out a bit rather than tuck the elbow to the body boxing style

 

Not sure if you saw the link up above to it but in case not here it is again... nice fight on many different levels:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVbppMcHXY"]Sakmongkol vs Perry Ubeda - YouTube[/ame]

 

i enjoyed wathcing that fight. Both of them seemed to take a beating....

can anyone give advice on learning the turning roundhouse kicks?

 

What's a turning roundhouse kick?

@Slip and Flash
Chillax please, theres a bunch of good avice beeing given here, let's try to keep the thread alive people.

Cant we all just get along? :Alien:

Slip did you empty your mailbox yet? It's probably fullo requests from the admins to cut off the flamethrower.

 

lol... yeah mailbox is empty and flamethrower is off.