UK, Euro, US vs PI as a culture.

Hi,
I'd like to ask a question and am very serious about this. We have bantered about the arts of FMA being from the Philippines.
Because of the last 100 years US have been much involved, since National Gegraphic made it very Graphic of the location that was an aquired peace prize (from Spain).

It was/is "good" in some ways "bad" in other and "ugly" to the max at the time of WWll. But in the end I believe the Islands benefited because of it.

Did the Islands really give back as much as they received? Will they ever be able to? Do the people want to?

Has the art of Eskrima, Arnis and Kali been a good thing for the countries mentioned. Is the need to have more killing arts spread around really a good idea. If the art was stuck in a stick mode would it be better.

Those who mention "Arnis" to be the country sport, need to be reminded the only way I see that is, if they keep it stick based.
Any thoughts about this?

Also the countries that I have mentioned have been major players regarding the civilization of man to all other parts of the world, what has PI done for the civilization side of economy? The dried mango fruit from that part of the country is good, and the rattan, the bamboo and trees are great.

The one thing about the search that led to that location, was for the spice trade, and yet the spice, did not come from that location as much as it did from Indonesia. I think the Spanish might have been glad to get rid of it when they did, lucky for PI that the US was their protector and not someone else or they might be a Japanese holding now.

It is a proven fact the knives and steel and swords got there long after other countries had been using them for hundreds to thousands of years. It mentioned to be the latest and greatest sword arts in the world (other poster). Similar to the firearms of the world they were an import not an export. Were they really a base for pirates or did people just go there to flee other tyranical governments. It is very much Chinese people (dna) it is proven of late.

Will the country ever be able to get closer in line to a stronger 2nd world status or will they always be on the verge of 3rd world?
Do the folks in the UK and Europe feel they have a better handle on it than the hundred/thousands of schools in the US does?

Just curious. Thought I'd add this to talk about, or not.

Gary

 

Gary,

I'm not locking this for one reason and one reason alone. I have to assume that I'm misreading this post, because as it stands, my distinct impression is that you're questioning whether the Philippines have "contributed" anything beyond dried mangoes and stickfighting. I'm hoping that, given the opportunity, you're going to come back with an absolutely brilliant reanalysis of this idea, which will convince me that I've totally misconstrued what you've written so far. For which I'll dutifully apologize, of course.

Thanks.


Stuart

p.s. Make it good, Gary.

 

Tourism

AP
I was hoping for some better input than that, with your thoughts and comment that puts me at a distinct disadvantage.

What I was hoping for was some input from others that are in PI or abroad, explaining what they feel, might be a contribution that has been made.

Tourism
http://www.philippines.hvu.nl/

But that is only for others to come and explore the Islands at their own risk, leave and talk about it back in a safe location.

How about the cruise ships that go all over the world to various locations (almost all workers, are from the Indonesian or Philippine Islands) in the Carribean, that many of the worlds other folks, pay thousands of dollars to see, only during the day, and are safe back on the ship for the night.

They have a huge source of people that have been exploited (slaves in olden times, now workers aboard cruise ships and abroad in many countries to be the labor force for rich countries). Leaving the islands, sending money back to assist those who are still there.

Similar to the woes of the immigration from Mexico to the US and being a people (slaves) that were brought to Mexico hundreds of years ago and then the peoples of Mexico (azteca's) taken back aboard a ship to be stranded on the Islands far from their homeland. Most never to return again because of the way they were treated when they were slaves aboard a ship in the first place.

Thousands upon thousands sent/brought to Hawaii/America to only find a horrible life in fields of cane in Hawaii or the asparagus fields of stoop labor in CA.. Having to work from day light to dawn and practicing the art they brought with them (Eskrima or Arnis or Kali) Again to be exploited in a new land. Fighting and kill or be killed so their art grew among them, and was shared with others or others paid to learn what was being taught. The same story over and over again that I have read.

I was wanting some of the PI family to "maybe" give their thoughts about what they believe the Islands have contributed, beside waves of humans going abroad to work and send money home. I remember a thread similar but the comments were off topic so I thought I would have one that would legitimize the grief of hundreds of years of exploitation, done to these peoples.

Where are they going to go, from here but sideways? I get a feeling that the location many of us feel is a beautiful spot is really nothing but a land of sending people off and never returning.

What brought this to my mind AP is a picture I received about a week ago from an old ship mate and member aboard a "warship" that we were aboard that went to the Islands in 1960, to be confined to only a few locations to visit because of the hostile feeling and problems that were going on then.

"1960" was the year of that cruise. Now I still see the same mentality and it is almost 50 years later, but now it is commercial Enterprise in reverse. People pay to see the locations, but have a safe haven aboard a ship at night.

Long and not done, but at least you gave me a chance to say more, but I believe it is to hot a topic for the martial arts section...

So AP, your turn.

Regards,
Gary

 

Gary, I'm sorry you feel that you're at a disadvantage here. But wording like quoted above comes off as very belittling. So one of three things are going on. 1) You've worded it poorly. Hence the invitation to revisit the issue. 2) You really do question whether the Philippines have contributed anything to civilization. Or 3) I'm too thick to get your meaning.

I haven't ruled out any of the above. But your second try certainly sounded more diplomatic than the first. So I respectfully have to disagree that my input wasn't worth anything.


Stuart

 

Oh my.

You need to clarify what you mean by 'give back'. In what sense of giving back? You've started your entire thread by trying to paint it as if the Philippines owes someone or some group something. Which is an absurd stance to say the least.

You have a really strange way of asking questions... but this goes above and beyond the usual wacked out posts that you've come to be known for replete with useless links. First you ask a rather vague question and then you follow that with a second question pretty much assumes the answer to the first is 'NO'. You then go for broke and question the sincerity of the Filipino population as a whole.

:bang:

Has the art of Eskrima, Arnis and Kali been a good thing for the countries mentioned. Is the need to have more killing arts spread around really a good idea. If the art was stuck in a stick mode would it be better.

Why on earth would they have to keep it stick based for it to remain the country sport?!?

Sweet Jesus.
I knew this was coming. I knew it.
This fits right in line with how you started your thread. Needless to say you have a very warped, myopic and eurocentric sense of history and civiliazation.

LOL!
I'm not even sure how to respond without getting sin binned.
What on earth is the 'civiliation side of economy'?!

Oh my. We get your point. The Phillipines should be licking the boots of the US and or Spain because without them they'd amount to even less than they have in your eyes. Boy are you clueless.

So what. Does that somehow support your absurd theory? Not in the least.

It is very much Chinese people (dna) it is proven of late.

err.. what is proven to be of Chinese DNA as of late?!

It might almost be a question to be taken seriously if you hadn't prefaced it with the garbage you have.

A handle on what exactly?

_____________________________________________________________


It'd be nice if next time you bring up one of your agendas... however misinformed and myopic... that you just state it up front instead of trying to cloak it in all sorts of nonsense like you have.

Then hopefully stupid threads such as this will be locked down right quick.

PS.
You do realize how absurd the title of your thread is right?

 

ap,
I believe your wording was worth something. I believe it is what I am looking for but am not worried at what comes my way from others. But I don't want to get banned because I am sort of a loose cannon.

I have a tendecy to throw something out, worded good or improper to see who takes it and will lead in a direction, where and what it will bear (fruit or poison). But I am not one to fuss as long as it will be able to continue, that will be good. I appreciate your candor and expertise in keeping me in line

But what I was going to get to and did because of your ability to steer me in a direction that I was taking but maybe not the clearest course. Is this...

The commodity that PI is selling is the people, they are not for sale as a piece of meat some might say, but they are in reality doing that. Everytime you meet one that helps you with your luggage or waits for you in a restaurant or helps you at the post office. You notice a genuine good group of people. Even at a FMA event they are fun to be around, doing an art that is deadly and being taught you. Many are sharing an art that has been in their family for hundreds of years (or just recently borrowed along with a good story, something you will find out in time if it is allowed to unfold)..

But, as all groups that sometimes happens, the good and bad occur.
I believe if we are borrowing their art you have to be giving them a benefit of the doubt, this is because for years they have been exploited by many, but not all are trying to do that, many of us want to learn what they have to offer an not just take it and run and then sell it and be in compitition with them over it.

It is a very tricky, and sometimes rough situation, when you see it from the 50 years of experience I have watched from. I just had a swich in Doctors and I was able to get one I wanted to be my Dr. He is Filipino born and raised there, I am very happy, for he will be the one who helps me in the coming years of my winter.

The art:
I truly believe it is the last strong-hold of information that is in the hands off those who are carrying on the art. This location and the Indonesian arts of Silat and Kuntao are all interrelated (IMHO) Can others carry on the art that are not from there? Maybe, maybe not.
The person in PI is desperatly trying to be part of the big picture, I feel they are being ignored, but that is the way of big businesss. Some are lucky to be involved with those that truly care.

Like mentioned in another thread that you allowed/let go on about the blade, it finally got revealed but it took many post's and reading and contributing to see where it was going to go. It went and was handled well I believe.

We all are not as good as some with the written word, but if allowed to meander and not treated to badly, we will be able to get others to contribute I think. Some of the best that is offered is a quick message about a word or phrase that allows others to see and then participating.

You are doing a good job Stuart, thanks for your effort. The location is easier to allow your opinions to be voiced and not worry about being attacked to badly LOL...But by the same token, guided so you don't offend, something I have been accused of at times.

I am not sure if I am the dense one, or the one that truly has the ability to see Next one will be on subject, I just hope others will read and add something critical or helpful, I don't care. The bottom line is to have others share.

Regards,
Gary

 

Nice bit of bootlicking you did there BGile.

Your thread and it's entire basis is still total crap.

 

Slip I am glad you have joined, for it will be interesting, you do bring up some good points. But I believe the topic and the wording got your attention.
That is good.

As far as sentence by sentence goes I'll just allow it to play out some more before answering.

We are all not as politically correct as others, so...maybe that is good, and maybe not.

But you have to admit the cultures did collide and that is what this is all about. Very different cultures and if that is to hard to understand bear with me.

It is pretty obvious if you truly are being honest and not just looking to fight over it, you should really understand. The difference here is I am not concerned with a misspelled word or some other anal attitude I am looking for honest imput. This is not about you and I disagreeing and you calling me names it is about a culture that has struggled for centuries and still is.

Gary

 

Hey we are still on the same page as the last discussion. LOL..
Good to have you keep me honest

 

Last for the day and I hope others will put in some thoughts also.

We have two cultures that we will be talking about the land of Mexico and the Land of the Philippines.
They are the ones in the last 400 years that were really messed with by the outsiders (europe dudes) The thing I would like to point out before we go any further is the Mexican population and the Filipino are both related eons ago by other migrations and a final melting of the two was done in the last period of time as I have mentioned.

The Art of the Filipino was influenced by the Aztecas as well as the Spaniard they say, and of course it was a two way street.

So who better to show you their art then the Filipino themselves? They did and have done so for the last 50 years but really it was avaliable for hundreds of years before that you just have to look in the right locations.

But back to the commodity they sell, "themselves". It is pretty obvious to me they have done a good job in more than one way and America is being immigrated into by thousand if not millions from numerous areas and the biggest on slaught is from the south.

More later, if not locked LOL

Gary

 

HAHAHAHAAA!!!!
The most nonsensical stuff you come up with.
Seriously... something that crazy takes some serious effort. Wow.

Would you mind enlightening us as to how the Aztec's influenced FMA?
I think I may have missed that.

If they find BGile hacked or stabbed or sticked to death... it surely wouldn't be any great surprise after the offensive stuff he posts in regards to the Philippine people.

 

I'm sorry Gary. There may well be a point to be made here. As one of my old writing professors used to say, "I may have missed the merit of your paper." But this has gotten off on the wrong foot entirely. I'm unclear what your basic question is. And the general tone is (perhaps accidentally) very unflattering.

So I'm closing this. I don't think there's any malice in your question. But I think it needed a little more "going over" before it was posted. Maybe that would've helped clarify the question. Maybe you would have axed the whole thing. I don't know. But this didn't get off to a good start. And I'm not optimistic about where it would go.

Thanks for understanding.


Stuart