Ronda Rousey vs Cat Zingano - UFC 184

Discussion in 'MMA' started by SWC Sifu Ben, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  2. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Wasn't even that though was it? I may be wrong because I'm going from memory and I'm very old but didn't she try a knee whilst she had no control of Ronda who had actually already side stepped anyway? It looked like an inappropriate, adrenaline induced spasm rather than any kind of planned movement against an opponent who wasn't there anyway.

    It just smacked of adrenaline/panic not a worked game plan to me. I'm sure she's no mug so I wondered why she wasn't better prepared.

    Mitch
     
  3. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Her game plan should have been to keep at range, stay off the fence, avoid the clinch and throw bombs whenever Ronda comes into range. It is literally the only way she had any kind of hope whatsoever.
     
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    And yet she actually ran towards Ronda I think?

    Mitch
     
  5. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Yeah and a seemingly lackluster knee (although somewhat hard to tell from behind). Based on her movement I would say you're right about it being nerves.

    If she had executed a cautious strikers game-plan... I think this would have gone the same way it just would have been at 1:14 instead of 0:14
     
  6. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    The truly legendary fighters make top tier fighters look like amateurs. Think what GSP did to his opponents. Or Anderson Silva.

    People then complain that it is a weak division, but it isn't.

    It is just that someone THAT good makes people look that bad. To me this criteria is actually how I help define the difference between a good fighter and a truly historically Hall of Fame level fighter.

    Cat has had plenty of success with knees in the past. Her biggest amateur move was not watching tape and realizing that it as a poor move against Rousey's supreme Judo.
     
  7. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

  8. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Like a canoe :woo:
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh I am sorry....the haters express left a day ago. There is a space in the Bitter Lounge though
     
  10. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Cat Zingano? Faking a loss? That is crazy talk! Did you not see how absolutely sincerely heart wrenched she was? Did you not hear her voice quiver as she asked Dana White what she had to do to get another chance?

    I don't think it is fair to iquestion a fighters reputation like that unless you have some evidence..........
     
  11. MaxSmith

    MaxSmith Valued Member

    I agree with the general sentiment of this statement, but not in the context of this fight.

    The knee, in my opinion was not the real issue. She came out hard, it's a tactic that can be successful, but she she missed she immediately locked up a headlock, and- the real critical error- continued to hold it after dropping to her knees with Rousey on top.

    Leaving your arm out there like that in a kind of schoolyard headlock, is a super amateur mistake. Rousey didn't just fall into that armbar, cat literally held it there for a moment giving her time to lock it up. It's probably the first thing you learn not to do as a BJJ white belt. And Cat is neither an amateur nor a white belt.

    I pretty much agree with Mitch in that nerves and maybe a bit of ring rust got to Zingano.
     
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I found this breakdown very interesting. Made a lot of sense to me. While I still think Zingano should not have charged, this breakdown makes the argument that a lot of what Zingano did was not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q17OFCfp8mc"]14 SECONDS!!! Ronda Rousey vs. Cat Zingano (UFC 184 - Gracie Breakdown) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Yeah, I think what Cat did would probably have worked against anyone who wasn't Ronda. I mean she must have been quite happy 5 seconds in having thrown Rousey. Reversals like that are very uncommon in MMA and it was truly beautiful to see, really put the Ju in Judo.
    I loved what Ronda said as well; "I know my reversals are better than anyone else's because my mom taught me."
     
  14. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I think the problem is Cat is at heart a grappler, grew up wrestling, is a BJJ champ, and although she has won a lot of fights by TKO s a lot of those wins were from the clinch or where she controlled the opponent with her grappling tired them out then knocked them out.

    Womens MMA is really made for grapplers to dominate, , Carla Kristen Esparza for example has the best double leg I have seen in years.

    Problem is Ronda is simply a better grappler than Cat or anyone else in current MMA, she is better in the clinch and better on the ground, women’s Judo simply has a deeper talent pool than any other womens combat sport by a country mile, so how do you beat someone better than you at your own game ? maybe take them out or disorientate them quickly at the start and then impose your game on them? To be fair Cat initially did ok in the scramble to start with, its just as I said Ronda is a better grappler, has scrambled with better opponents than Cat (or anyone else in womens MMA) has and shut her down

    The way to beat her on paper is as Holyhead said, stay on the out side, use long straight punches and angles to keep her out of the clinch and try to knock her out, problem is she closes the gap really well and her clinch and takedowns are different to your average opponent or ttraining partner, making it hard to train against. And her striking is only getting better (Ronda in this regard reminds me of diago sanchez or Josh Koshcheck, take a truly world class athlete from one combat sport, and if they apply the same kind of talent and athletic gifts to learning another combat sport they will pick it up fairly easily)
     
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Really? A standalone flying knee in the first 5 seconds doesn't sound like a good idea against anyone.
    I suspect Rousey was quite happen to let her take the fight to the floor.
    Uncommon in MMA, but beginner level stuff in Judo.
     
  16. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    If you're an accomplished wrestler who tends to dominate the clinch and has a strong top game then it's usually fine. As a strike the knee was useless, but as an entry to the takedown it clearly worked. Most people would have been out-muscled when they hit the mat.
     
  17. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHkOWSCKp8k"]Ronda Rousey reacts after dominating Cat Zingano - YouTube[/ame]
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    RR said that the flying knee was a possibility as she is notoriously a slow starter.
    I was screaming for her to let go of that head hook. Sating that though she would've still given up her back and either turtled or full mounted. Screwed either way...
     
  19. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    How good is her stand up game and how much does she trust it?

    If you look at the video of her pre-fight training she is completely switched on when on the pads, but her coach isn't.

    It looks as though he doesn't have the skills to get that extra 1% out of her that sets the experts apart from the elite.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Qt_uX_9Jw"]UFC 184: “Alpha†Cat Zingano’s Workout Before Title Fight With Ronda Rousey (Complete/Unedited) - YouTube[/ame]
     

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