The Technique Thread

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Simon, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I think we call it forwards because of the direction of travel if that makes sense?
    The sideways roll is a little different

    Generally we train to come up into the balls of the feet at the end because it's quicker to stand again, leap away etc. Its also preferable on hard floors as the sides of the ankle can sometimes impact badly if rolling onto the top of the foot

    In one example here I tried turning and standing onto both feet immediately and was a bit wobbly (well spotted) - rightly or wrongly I tend to experiment a bit like this during training. The next attempt was a bit better

    The basic is to end either kneeling on the ball of the foot as shown or to roll directly onto the flats of both feet. The latter of which requires rolling almost directly down the spine and isn't great on very hard surfaces

    Hope that makes sense?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yes, when I think of a forwards roll, I think of the same motion as you demonstrated, but starting from standing square-on and twisting into it. Just a terminology difference, not a technical one I think.

    Yes, mostly ;)

    I don't have room to do it at speed at the moment, but I think my preference is to have the rear (first foot to meet the ground coming out of the roll) foot on the ball for projection, and the front foot either heel first or flat, depending on how much I want to leap out of it. Of course, if it's a running roll then both will be ball of the foot.

    Though, thinking about it, I almost always roll from standing to standing, not from or to kneeling. Maybe that makes a difference? I'll try it out when I get the chance :)

    Edit: the balance issue is about pivoting, as you said.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  3. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    It's different if you are ending the roll facing in the same direction as you started (which sounds like the same as you're describing) or if you are turning to be able to see the place that you are rolling from I think

    The "running away" kind of roll, in our style, is usually done rolling onto both heels simultaneously (straight down the spine version described above). The movement then takes you onto both balls and gives you a good starting motion
    Apologies - I'll see if I can find a clip or maybe record one - rubbish description

    We tend to kneel before standing to give the option to stay low (particularly important when weapons are involved & the reason why we tuck our feet in during the roll) rather than always standing which, in our context, whilst viable at times can be a dangerous habit
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I always end up side-on, and always roll over the shoulder rather than straight along the spine (it's too painful on hard floors!).

    I also keep the legs tucked, though it's not a conscious habit to keep my legs from being sliced off. Having the legs flailing in the air also slows the roll; it's that whole centripetal/spinning figure skater deal (if you know what I mean?).

    Anyway, I'll have a study of your videos again. I've got classes tomorrow and friday, so I'll turn up a bit early and experiment with what you've shown. Rolling isn't specifically taught in our syllabus, although there are "gateway" techniques that hold the key to doing it effectively, so it's something I do without really thinking about it. In fact, all I really think is "rear foot ends up on opposite side of body by way of going over head" :)
     
  5. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Born from a discussion in this thread I promised a video on how to avoid over reaching when hitting the bag.

    I call it "hunting with the eyes" and I see it a lot when students are sparring.

    I'm sure we've all been there, how come he can hit me, but I can't hit him?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6a4j4Hp4wE"]posture and Balance - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
  6. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Priceless information right there. Thanks for the video.
     
  7. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Appreciate the video and info Simon. This has likely been my problem. I have been told about it time and again, but I have a hard time really focusing on posture. When I spar my instructor, he admits I should be able to hit him with my jab all day because my arms are about 2" longer than his. The big issue is what you are showing and especially not turning the hip quite enough when throwing the jab. This is what I want though. All the info I can get to close as many gaps as possible. Thanks.
     
  8. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I echo UC's post. Whether its trapping, skipping or this one on telegraphing/leaning, your vids clearly deal with the topic in question.
     
  9. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    awesome!

    from a TMA perspective, this has a LOT to do with all the hullaballoo you get around use of the hara/tanden/dantien/autobot matrix of leadership*/whatever to lead your techniques. ultimately, it amounts to the same thing: get better aligned vertically while you move around, and everything moves at the same time, faster and more efficiently. do the opposite, and and you get body parts dragging on each other as you move (which i believe is what is called "being double weighted" in taiji?). getting your face out of the way of the other guy's knuckles is a pretty neat bonus too (and the results when the opponent fails to do it are hilarious** :p).

    *yes, i know, the matrix is inside the chest, not in the lower abdomen. sue me :p
    **simplest way to exploit: once you spot the pattern, stand in a front or middle-weighted stance that lets you lean back and spring back forwards immediately. incite a cross, lean back out of the way and bonk the guy in the nose as he recoils from the punch (a stiff jab will usually do the trick nicely, but i've seen it happen with a rear straight in a krotty competition and it instantly put the other guy on the floor. it was beautiful :evil:).
     
  10. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    also, i haven't been able to meet up with ivan to do anything other than lift weights, but if anyone's curious about anything from krotty that i might be able to demonstrate without a partner, just holler and i'll pop up to the terrace and film it (or if all else fails i can try to persuade my bro to help me out).
     
  11. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Keeping this great thread going...

    Here's a cleaner version of the following rolling methods that we train:

    1 Straight/front roll that ends up in a position facing forwards. Good for running away kind of thing

    2 Sideways, large - used for wrist locks and shoulder throws. The idea is to take an angle that unwinds the lock and is best to release his grip/hold

    3 Close sideways - used in many counters to throws and locks often kicking as you do it

    4 Rear - emphasis on keeping a guard and ending up sideways on for protection and freedom of movement

    https://vimeo.com/m/98514408

    Enjoy
     
  12. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Simon:

    I'm working with your "Footwork" video. You indicate ( I think ) that one should give equal time to each leg for leading. I'm finding much trouble with smooth leading with the right - the "J" movement you begin demoing at around 8:40. for example.

    You suggest spending time getting one's lagging leg up to speed early before moving on or will the slower side find its own eventually?

    thank you kindly.
     
  13. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'll take a look when I get home from work.

    I've never been happy with that video, so if I spot something that can be explained better I'll shoot an additional video.
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    This triangular footwork caused a few problems when I did it at the MAP Meet last week.

    Forward, backward and side to side motions seemed to work fine, but when I showed the footwork at 8:40 in the video everyone looked uncomfortable with it.

    I'll re-shoot a video and do the move face on and with a partner. It'll make more sense.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    One thing I should have added was that the triangular footwork isn't overly complicated or in any way superior to any other arts footwork, just a bit more mobile and different to perhaps what you're used to.

    It would be interesting to hear the views of anyone who attended the MAP Meet. It would also assist me when I make the next video.
     
  16. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Its not superfluous - I see great utility in the movement, in fact its essential to developing the basics of good defensive footwork.

    Keep it! Just expand on it - there's a lot of meat packed into those few seconds starting around 8:40 - enough to make a full meal of - if you follow.

    If people are uncomfortable it is because we're thick as a brick - coordination wise. But there's great stuff there. Essential stuff.

    You have people still stepping and dragging? You wonder if they really have their left and right down without too much thinking? Little quirks, gaps and short circuits in the wiring from one's brain to the various muscle fibres in the body get exposed right quick like in the ring, lol!

    I knew from your skipping vids that when you got 'round to footwork and the dynamics of the ring, it'd be a challenge, but we all know here that's what it takes to bring it out.!
     
  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    No, not complicated at all, but at times some of us feel like the ace ballroom dancing star who's had a stroke and is struggling to bring his dead side up to speed with the rest of him.

    Well a bit of an exaggeration, then. lol. But the best are who they are by executing the fundamentals - the basics - really, really well.

    I'm really regretting now I couldn't attend. Woulda been fun.
     
  18. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Wheres's the footwork video?

    Thanks.
     
  19. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    [ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKXG3pQEbd8"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKXG3pQEbd8[/ame]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2014
  20. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I have to admit the trouble I had was visualising how it was supposed to work against a partner. It felt like it should have been mobile, just I found myself being a little uncoordinated with it and unsure how to apply it.

    If that makes sense.
     

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