I wouldn't teach somebody how to stalk up to somebody unseen so you can shoot them in the face, or how to lay an improvised explosive device at a doorway or window so an intruder blows themselves to pieces or get seriously maimed. I would if it were essential to know or if I were teaching somebody stuff and they gained a certain level of trust with me. I don't think this is something you can hold against PR honestly. If I were taking your stance I would emphasize on why you think it's malarky due to all the other stuff that has been mentioned which one could deduce that if step one looked like crap, step 100 is probably crap too, but not that step 100 is always crap just because somebody won't write it down.
we arent talking about building explosives or creative ways to murder people here. i wouldn't teach my overactive cousin to mix thermite either. we're talking about antiquated (it's not just ninjutsu that's antiquated, karate isn't a battlefield weapon either) techniques that really wont do any harm to put on video. you can't learn martial arts through a video anyway.
Well, who are you to judge what one group of individuals think is high level or something that needs to be secretive? It may just be a bunch of malarky, but you're asking a group of people to give up what they think is sacred or secret in their style of training. They have no obligation to show you. I'm pretty sure Ninjutsu is supposed to have a lot more than just H2H fighting as well. PR may be talking about some of the craftsman or tactical skill sets. If I blew you up before you entered my home with an IED, I certainly took away any possibility of resistance didn't I.
Aren't we? Look a little closer at some of the skills in some of these systems. It's not just that, it comes down to the protection of the schools. Their integrity is maintained and believe it or not it's also a method of quality control and verification. God can't believe I said that in the same sentence as the Buj.
They do, but you should learn the basics of a technique in a non resistant environment before trying to apply it against a resistant opponent. Otherwise you may use strength instead of technique, or bad technique and cause injury to yourself or your partner, and neither one of those outcomes is going to be good.
I thought I mentioned that these things mostly work on touch, but I'll give you an example. You grab someone and try to throw him, but suddenly he's not there and you end up throwing yourself. You punch at a guy and suddenly are looking the wrong way, are in pain, and unable to move. You are being struck at with a weapon which you block, but the block is redirected and you are hit or used to make you immobile while you are hit. The guy is doing something that you know he is going to do but can't stop it. If you've ever experienced any of the above, you were unable to resist and there are reasons why. If there is a way to make someone move without them knowing they are getting moved, how can they resist that? If there is a way to make someone lose perception, how do they see that? If there is a way to make someone's sense of feeling insensible, how do they pick up on what is being done to them? There is such a thing as a blindfold, anesthesia, and stakes(you could stake their feet to the ground so they can't move). So if you can understand these simple things exist, you can at least conceptualize what might be able to happen if someone was able to recreate their effect in their own body. Again, if you've never experienced these kinds of things, it might sound like mumbo jumbo, but it isn't. Just the result of figuring out ways to create gaps, or rather let the opponent make gaps for himself, and figuring out ways to exploit them. I do agree with you on how to train and chess, but the master player always has the trap set to spring. There's a guy Hannibal likes to bring up ever so often, a fat Taiwanese master of martial arts who used to let people hit him in the gut Houdini style. He damaged many an arm and might have even broke a few. How do you resist a guy who breaks your arm when you attack him?
So now I'm thinking that what you're trying to say is that if there's a big skill difference it becomes practically impossible to resist? I get the feeling that you're trying to say something very sensible, but in a way that no-one can make sense of
Please reality does tend to give this impresssion. You often feel that he is speaking in Zen koans, and if only you could decipher what he is really trying to say it would actually be quite reasonable. Then he will come out with statements like: and you realise that there is no hidden meaning.
Yeah, it goes a bit far. The whole guillotine thing... It's too deadly to do but if you did it you would know.. Mma guys would be more than happy to pop your neck if they could in a match, and they are constantly working on techniques so would find the deadliness in no time at all.
It sounds like mumbo jumbo because it is. You can't recreate the effects of anesthesia with ninjutsu (unless you count knocking someone out, but that isn't what you're talking about)
One has to go through "non-resisting", "resisting", in order to get into "sparring/wrestling". Let's use the "hip throw" as example. When you train how to develop your "hip throw", your opponent will not resist you. After you have thrown him 10,000 times, you may be able to use your "hip throw" in "sparring/wrestling. On the other hand, if every time that you try to use your hip throw, your opponent just sinks down, you will never have chance to make your technique work and your opponent's not helping you to develop your "hip throw". Now after you have developed your "hip throw", every time that you use it on your opponent, he will sink down to resist, you then reverse your "hip throw" into "inner hook" and "help him to go down even more". Now you start to train your "combo" by using one throw to set up another throw.
Perhaps in your experience chokes take a long time to apply and make the person submit, but if you've ever met someone who can choke you silly in two or three seconds, your opinion would change. I believe I explained about the guillotine choke later in that thread but basically you have the blood and/or air being cut off as well as realignment of your head or neck. Things for the ring, the streets, and assassination are different. I'm sorry you can't understand that but it doesn't change the fact. Again, how do you spar things that are mean to be killing or decapitating moves? Ninjutsu is basically dirty fighting, with weapons. There is no real way to spar that. Who gets the throwing stars and blinding powder, and who gets the hand claws? Parts of the schools that make up the Bujinkan are not ninjutsu related, so you could potentially spar with them, but again the idea isn't a back and forth sparring match. If you look at the bojutsu versus sword from Kukishinden ryu for example, it isn't something that makes for easy playing. It is an attack, followed by another attack if he is able to counter, followed by a finish. How would you know? I'm sure that if you tried to describe what breathing air to a fish was like, he'd give you that fish eyed stare. There are ways to manipulate the body so that you cannot sense/feel/comprehend what is happening to you(not for minutes or hours like one could with anesthesia obviously, but long enough to matter), it is a matter of refinement of movement, sensory overload or depravation, and not using focused intention and muscular force. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that it isn't possible, though it might not be for yourself.
PR, I think I understand what you are getting at here. I think I even could agree with it. I think the communication breakdown in this thread has to do with the way you started it. To someone with no experience(or worse with a lesson or two!) with a ninja school this comes across as an explanation and defense as to why little/no resistance is seen in ninja videos. I'm sure many of us non ninjas read your O as: "Ninjas don't train with resistance because resistance to our deadly technique is futile" Again I don't think this was your intent but judging from the replies I was not the only one who thought this.
Ninjutsu has a lot of aspects that might seem unbelievable and have to be experienced to believe but it is nothing new in the martial arts. There are similar things in Chinese arts like tai chi or bagua for example. Just like someone mentioned tightening up the muscles in the body to withstand a blow, there is another way. You don't have to believe it but there is a way to deal with force other than what you believe to be true. Here is an example, listen to the words more so than the video. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6e01Gb-2h4"]Chen Manching & Robert W. Smith - YouTube[/ame] Tension, trying harder, doing more aren't the only ways in the martial arts(though definitely an important foundation and base for getting beyond them). [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSYPOhSgiis"]Cheng Man Ching -Push hands play - YouTube[/ame] There is an old video of one of Cheng's skinniest students getting punched in the stomach in the same way as this video of Wang Shu Jin below but I can't find it now. The guy is relaxed and smiling although the person hitting him is whaling away. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgSPsiQhAZk"]Wang Shujin & Liao Wuchang - YouTube[/ame]
