Does anyone actually need to learn self defence?

This is true, i'm just showing that self defense does indeed exist and these people aren't going to make things "worse for themselves". I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the OP at all. I'd like to study a hard style like Muay Thai, but the closest place to me is literally 50 miles or more that teaches actual muay thai. One place teaches the combat version of it. I don't recall the name of the ATM though.

 

Actually eskrima would also be something i'd like to do, but I don't know of any places close to me at all that teach it and though there are plenty of videos... I just don't think that's the way to go.

 

Said Muay Thai student will if they try to clinch with Joe who's armed with a blade that's for sure.

I can tell you this from experience. And not one i'll cherish. I still possess a hole in my knee where I impaled my 'destroying straight knee' onto the point of an unseen blade.

I was that muay thai student...The rule? Don't clinch with a stabber!

 

Really. So if I am boxing in the ring and I hit my opponent hard enough for him to be given a standing count, and while the ref is doing that I vault the ropes, run out the hall and jump into my car and drive off to where I feel safe, I will be a loser, marked down for various breaches of the rules.
But if I am assaulted in the street and I hit my opponent hard enough for him to be given a standing count, and while the no one is doing that I turn round, run along the streetand jump into my car and drive off to where I feel safe, I will be a winner.

Not a different way of moving your body but a different objective, in sport, to continue attacking until you win, in SD to avoid get out the situation that endangers you.

 

That's two separate points though surely? I can choke you out, tap you out or break your neck with a RNC; three different outcomes, identical technique

It was the mechanics that Badger was commenting on

 

Didn't seem to hurt this guy:



:whistle:

 

Didn't see a car in that clip - do you have a longer version?

 

Mechanics are different surely? In competition you have to compete. In SD you just have to remove yourself from the situation or the situation from you.

 

The punches, slips, or throws are the same, thought? It's just whether you start running after you've done them.

 

Yes. That is true.

 

absoluletly but what i meant by my prior posts was some one who is scared of confrontation wether it is to save your life or not you have to be able to do what you HAVE to do to get away safely i didnt mean it in a way that you should stay and engage in a fight until the guy is KO'd. Just simply do your best to defuse it without violence but once violence shows itself and there is no other way you have to have the mental ability to be able to land that strike or finish that armbar to get away safely but people who lack the ability to go to that frame of mind no amount of training is going to make them able to do that

i really hope that makes since simply put i know alot of people who are great fighters in the gym but once the adrenal stress of a real confrontation hits them they cannot apply any of their training to a real situation, simply because they are not confrontational people

 

This is why SD courses should run more realistic scenarios, IMO. In the SD classes I took, everything was done much slower than it would be in reality. Lesson of this is-make sure your instructor runs realistic scenarios if you take a SD class.

 

About 2 hours later he probably got in a car to leave the arena.

 

According to that view then someone who runs around a track to race in competition will suddenly run differently if they have to run for their lives. On a fundamental level that's not true. Their running ability and athletic ability will be applied on a fundamental level,the same. The difference is environmental and psychological.
Someone training to fight at as high a level as possible and with the ability and understanding of real violence and dirty tactics and who is streetwise, so to speak, will be a lot more capable than someone training self defence moves or pretending it's a fight.
Boxers look messy in those types of fights because it's two skilled boxers, cancelling each other out and going to the clinch and not knowing what to do. In rings fights they often go to the clinch ,even as a defensive tactic, and just hold until the ref steps in. Put a non fighter in there and let's see them survive enough and defend to even get to the clinch. Wonder what thai, judo, m m a or sub wrestling fights at weigh ins look like. Boxing is the easy one to go to for your example but it can be simply explained.
It's all one big excuse to not learn to fight.

 

Except it isn't always that simple.....

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBfZna8QlA&list=PLC038B6202331F57D"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBfZna8QlA&list=PLC038B6202331F57D[/ame]

There is a marked difference mechanically - true it is still adhering to boxing in principle, but the deteriation of the actual skill level is clearly apparent

 

very true, but of course boxing is a rather 1 dimensional sport in the sense that only their hands can be used and thus only their hands are trained. Once that factor and distance is taken away, they have nothing else to fall back on. You yourself Hannibal know many joint locks, etc that in close quarters end a fight, or at the very least take away from the attackers full abilities.

 

Yes, the difference is environmental and psychological. You say "on a fundamental level that's not true", I don't agree with you fully. I think that once they are sufficiently clear from the threat, and know themselves to be so, then they will run as well as they have trained to run. But those first few yards, that start, there's no way that's going to be as clean as controlled or as skilled as their normal start - they will run normally, which is a movement similar to but not exactly like a trained run. it may be faster than a normal untrained runner - but it's definitely not going to be their best form.

You've added in some extra factors and some straw men here. I would differentiate between:
1. Someone training to fight at as high a level as possible
2. with the ability and understanding of real violence and dirty tactics and who is streetwise, so to speak
They aren't necessarily the same and one does not guarantee the other. I've never heard of a good gym that teaches number 2. Number 2 comes from either your upbringing/environment or through having good SD teachers in my experience.
At the same time "someone training self defence moves or pretending it's a fight" in some SD clubs sadly will not get either 1 or 2, in others get 2 but not 1, and in others both 1 and 2.

Since 2 is more important than 1 unless you are aiming to be a competitor, I would rather people who aren't already streetwise go to a SD club than a sporting club if they want to gain '2'.

No.
This is you not understanding basic human behaviour patterns and arguing against the accepted research and evidence of people that do. The same evidence and research on adrenal stress reactions and training methodologies that has been used to transform police, military, security and SD training over the last half century. You've even gone so far as to mention the straw man of putting a non fighter in the ring against a fighter, when I'm specifically discussing unexpected and unsolicited violence that occurs outside of planned and pre-prepared arenas.

 

Most of the time you've got to be good with your hitting ability if you want to create the opportunity to lock someone up that isn't compliant.

 

My private training group ("Trunk Monkey Wrecking Crew") were discussing this last night - the boxing structure is perhaps the simplest yet also the hardest to solve combatively.

From a JKD perspective it is pretty much the base - as Bruce Lee said to Leo Fong once

Which if you look at it is pretty much MMA.

Leo also impacted a lot of Bruce's approach

A boxer will annihilate pretty much anyone unfamiliar with their structure. I can only apply locks against a boxer because I can box.

For me and my guys we use the straight blast to facilitate the setups and finishers. I blast them akin to a WC stylist...my partner in crime P-Dog fires more like a boxer and I have another student who looks almost karateka in his delivery....but these are delivered form a "boxing-esque" base

When i say a boxer I don't mean someone who has seen the Tyson Spinks fight 5 times....I mean the high level amateurs and even a good pro if you can find one to train with. They will hit you and you go down. Trying to apply a jointlock on them is like trying to turn a fan off by sticking your hand through the blades to get to the plug.

Locks etc are SECONDARY systems and without a decent primary you will simple not get to employ them against a boxer