Interesting thread! Just to add to what Johnno is saying in regards to slowness. Slow practice allows for a greater awareness of the details (tension, breath, posture, lines of force etc etc), which in turn increases the myelination of the neural circuits of these respective details or mini-skills, if we can call them that, to be smoothed/integrated/relaxed, thus improving each individual aspect and their collective synergy for the overall movement we are working on. Myelination is increased specifically during slow practice as we literally build a neural circuit, link by link. Slow movement allows us more and deeper awareness of each link in the chain and lets us fire each link accurately. Furthermore, slow practice allows us to not only perform the action, but to also simultaneously observe that performance and coach ourselves to perfect it. When we go fast, on the other hand, we are only performing. I’m no expert in neuroscience but there is a lot of research on this subject which is now publically available. I would strongly recommend any TaiJi person to read this book, it gives a nice lens to examine TaiJi with and puts a lot of classic practices in to context. [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Talent-Code-Greatness-born-grown/dp/0099519852"]The Talent Code: Greatness isn't born. It's grown: Amazon.co.uk: Daniel Coyle: Books[/ame] Also, with regards to “Lower” practice. I think it’s a bit more complex then “lower is better”. I am of the opinion that lower is only for building leg strength and other than the benefits that strength brings, it adds nothing to your skill. Specifically, in order to move effortlessly and quickly, one cannot load muscles with tension which results from going lower, in fact one should do the exact opposite. Find the highest stable point where one can effectively take on force with minimal loading of the leg muscles i.e. allow the force to pass through you (your legs) to the ground in the most unobstructed and quickest way. Such a skill has much more application in reality and is completely different from what one develops going low. It is reliant on awareness of your structure (legs in this case) and being able to stack all its part in such a way that in relation to an uncooperative and dynamic external force, the force is allowed to pass in to the ground and not get lodged in to your muscles all the while with minimal disruption to balance. If your thigh is parallel to the ground, there is no way for this action to take place, and there is no way for you to move without shifting your weight from leg to leg which further compromises your stability in relation to an external force as you are constantly reducing two support structures to one un-supporting structure. Both these factors make you immobile and reliant on the strength of your legs to attempt to counter any force applied to you. I’m pretty sure no one here has seen anyone fight in a thighs parallel to ground stance, if it happens its only for a split second such as in a shoot or fireman’s carry or something of the like, it does not make sense to practice your whole form like this. Now I’m not saying, you shouldn’t go low sometimes, but, before you even think of going low, you should develop enough skill/awareness to be able to pass force through the structure in your legs (integrated with your upper body) and remain relatively stable while an uncooperative external force is applied to you and all this without compromising mobility. Also, as much as slowness is useful, working at full speed, especially with a partner (as well as on your own) is very important as this is where your need to learn to implement your advantage of awareness which is developed via consistent and daily myelination. Just to sum it up, in my view TaiJi is about balance, low and high, slow and fast. No balance = no TaiJi. My two pence...
I agree with Inthespririt that low isn't as important as slow and soft. (And by soft I mean relaxed, not floppy.) Training lower will strengthen your legs, so I can see value in it. But there is a lot of variation in how low different Taiji styles tend to practise, so I don't believe that it is as important as going slower - and being more relaxed is by far the most important of all. And if being lower results in tension then it it is counter-productive. But as I read it, the OP meant that we could look to practise lower without adding tension, since that would conflict with the aim of being softer.
I'd start with the book, as it gives the general idea backed up with examples of skill being developed and the methods used in real life. The author basically does a study of talent hotspots and what goes on within these, IMO these aspects of the book will be particularly interesting to MA’sist. There is some basic info on the authors page and blog here: http://thetalentcode.com http://thetalentcode.com/myelin/ If you Google for ‘myelination’, or ‘myelin’ you get a lot of stuff like below, but I don’t think much of it is easy to understand unless you have some practical background on this subject, again, the book is a much better start and you can do your own research from there. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=white-matter-matters http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474837/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2486416/ http://www.neurology.org/content/66/3/339 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16116456 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10719902 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/30/10937.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17503698 Note: A lot of these, you will have to pay for if you want to read the whole thing. This is quite an interesting read too, does not talk about myelination directly, but gives some idea to what slow practice achieves if done correctly : http://www.bettermovement.org/2010/why-practice-slow-movement/#comment-20539
Not sure what you’re asking here but if your doubting the action of myelin, it is a scientific fact as far as I understand. Its discussed in depth in some of the studies I linked earlier. Here are some more easily accusable links I just found: http://www.childrenshospital.org/research/_neuron/index.html Check out the sheath and read the description. Randomly found these, some excerpts from the aforementioned book, might be interesting: http://www.harmonycollege.org/handouts2012/TheTalentCode-CharlieMetzger.pdf http://www.getsportiq.com/2012/05/y...-the-scientific-concept-in-skill-development/
i've been thinking back to my time in hapkido. we used to do this exercise--and forgive my forgetfulness and spelling--called something like makchigi. it was practice with blocks and strikes. it was useful to start doing that slowly to get the feel for it, gradually building up speed over time.
wasnt doubting the action just the links people make. it's just that i dont believe posts off the internet and especially off MAP and especially (no offence) from the tai chi section (where there tends to be a lot of fluff about chi) without proof. especially when people talk about something sciencey then someone says "Studies won't help much. Just lots and lots of practise" thank you for the links! it's very insightful!
Haha! No worries, I know where your coming from. If you read the book, do share your thoughts and any insight you may have as a result of it on your own practice.
I wasn't having a go at the scientific stuff that Inthespirit was referring to. To be honest, it's all greek to me. I'd love to have a better understanding of it, but it's all way over my head. That's why I just get on and practise - I don't need to know WHY it works, so long as it does. but if you can understand the sciency stuff then fair play to you. Edit: and I don't think you'll see much "fluff about chi" in the Taiji section, to be honest. You don't see the Taiji practitioners talking about it much, only the non-Taijiers popping in regularly to remind us that 'it' doesn't exist!
Agree with you 100% there. MA is to be developed on the "body" and not to be studied in your "brain". Knowing how to do it is still far away from being able to do it. "Knowing how to do it" is the "fake you". "Being able to do it" is the "real you". You should try to know exactly how the "real you" look like and not the "fake you".
I bet he trains slow [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7UJ82aC21c"]Kwai TaiJi (Fast Tai Chi) - YouTube[/ame]
Dude looks like he's doing the Robot.. Not my cup of tea - looks very rigid, and... clinical? Not really sure how to put it... I wouldn't have described it as 'fast' tai chi, either... Maybe, 'brisk'? Re: Going lower - Again, if you're not going to fight in a squat-posture, then why are you training in such a posture? Sure, it might develop strength in the legs, but there are other ways of developing that strength; bodyweight or free weight exercises, for instance. Everyone gets so hung up on how to 'perform' their form; low, slow, long etc... When we should be taking the form apart and investigating the function behind the formality.
Well the form is also about gong and not just a combat textbook. Actually the combat lessons in the form are there of course. The practice of form in of itself though doesn't make you a better fighter. It makes a useful compendium of core martial movements and techniques. But exploring those is a different issue and seperate practice to what practicing form is about. The role of form is to refine your movement and for "gong" training. So in that respect, both slow and fast is good and whatever you like in between. Low and high is good, and whatever you like in between. Hard? no hard is not so good. I agree there might be other ways to strengthen legs, but those don't train the flexibility and range of motion in combination with the strength derived from the lower posture. In terms of strength however the main priority is a postural strength that is more about the whole body integration that you work in. If you're going low, you're not just working leg strength as you would with a pistol for example - you're integrating that leg strength with many other aspects of your form.. Like; ka he (opening and closing), cross body issuing and recieving, spiralling, dantien connection and rotation etc. The going low aspect is just adding a further level or aspect of difficult training to the practice of form. But before people get too carried away with the strength angle it's also a matter of being flexible as well. There are old stories about taiji that highlight this ability of strong flexibility, doing the form under a table and the other one of having to be able to achieve a certain low position with your nose reaching to your foot before you could really begin training. Things like opening and stretching the hip joint and ingenual crease area (kwa) are considered important. There maybe different or more modern ways to achieve a result, but, well, tcc can achieve some results in a few different areas too - if that's what you want from it.
I only in slow when I'm learning a new form or technic least that way I can get it right . But that's the only time as I believe that martial arts is a speed art and shouldn't be slowed down unless your instructors showing you technic or form as I said start .
Slow form in tai chi is likened to a moving pile standing (zhan zhuang). You can develop postural connection, stretching, breath training. integration of posture and breath etc. You cannot work on certain aspects if you are going quickly, it is very very difficult to integrate all the things you need to as well as develop them to a decent level always going quickly. The idea that you leave such 'basics' behind is also not a good argument. Use it or lose it. Take the spiralling quality of movement. This can't be maintained if you only practice your form quickly. You can't develop it through fast practice alone and you can't maintain it with fast practice alone either. What other arts do and how they train isn't really relevent. Without static and slow training you can't develop and maintain tai chi chuan. People may give up form, slow or otherwise but they'll still have to maintain (solo) exercises performed slowly or in static posture. This training is indispensible in the so called "internal" styles. Whether people agree with the methodology or not is irrelivent here and now. That's how it's done and it works to acheive a desired result, whether you like or want that result you need to go and find out with the relevent teachers of these styles.
I do BJJ and I think there's a benefit to slower training! >:[ PS - admittedly my perspective may be based on slow rolling, rather than slow form practice. Perhaps that is where my disagreement comes from.
When you are rolling on the ground, or when your body is tangled with your opponent's body in the stand up game, the word speed has no meaning. When people talk about "full contact", It's hard for me to relate it to the grappling art.
