The Form Check Thread.

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by seiken steve, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    What're your goals?
    What's your reasoning behind them?
    What do you hope to achieve by working that movement?


    You should have a clear concise answer to those three questions when talking about a movement, if you do then you dont need to ask other people about the movement, you'd know for a fact it was worth doing.

    I'll be working calf raises in soon for shorts season and if you asked me why I was doing them I'd be able to answer

    Bigger calfs.
    They're the best way I know of to get bigger calves
    Not looking like a chicken anymore.
     
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3C3PlC47Sc"]fun with one-arm suitcase deadlifts - YouTube[/ame]

    k, what am i doing wrong? already noticed that i'm putting a bit of elbow flexion into it.
     
  3. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    First thing, find the balance point before you lift, just hoik it off the floor a couple of inches a few times, till you find it, then DO NOT move your hands, even though it's SO tempting.

    Second flex your triceps hard, you biceps quite hard and everything in your forearms too.

    Third make sure your arm is in a neutral hanging position, the flexing should help but double check the bar isn't in front or behind where it needs to be, this will cause it to swing as it comes of the floor and ruin any chance of you holding the balance. (that make sense?)

    Fourth, you need a haircut :) :ban:
     
  4. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Also your arms are looking bigger, fish of hench.
     
  5. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    cheer, cheers, and i'll cut it when you cut your balls off :)
     
  6. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dGuuNZGjjQ"]crappy hang cleans and slightly less crappy 1xBW full clean. - YouTube[/ame]

    things already noticed: throwing the bar too far forwards on the hang clean = catching it bent over, and ass too high on the full clean = trouble dipping under it.
     
  7. flaming

    flaming Valued Member

    When doing bodyweight squats should the spine be slightly lordotic -neutral spine. I remeber reading a tnation article that said this but I can't do that without falling backwards if i atempt it. Unless I hold a dumbell (goblet squat) then I can keep an arch.

    Also i have said look at a baby squat for perfect form, well babies round there spine. And it looks like there big heads help aswell. And the third world squat, thats with a flexed spine.
     
  8. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    You arch slightly when doing a squat but you also bend slighty forward at the waist, They counter each other out balance wise. Practise with a light weight until you find your balance point.
     
  9. flaming

    flaming Valued Member

    I can keep an arch holding a light weight but not when just using bodyweight.
     
  10. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    When you say body weight are you talking about doing it with just your natural body weight or are you talking about lifting your own wieght on a bar?

    If it's your natural weight then you don't really need to arch. when lifting a weight you need to lean forward slightly to keep the weight centered as you squat so you don't fall backwards. you arch up to take the strain off your lower back when you lean forward with the weight. With out weight you can squat how ever you feel comfortable. However it doesn't hurt to do it the way you would with wieght in case you ever want to add some weight. It's like getting the form right before you add the weight. You should be able to do it with the arch. Sounds like you just need to work on finding your balance.
     
  11. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    There's another T-nation article that addresses this sort of subject but I don't have time to hunt it down right now.

    What it basically talks about his hip flexibility and tightness in your muscles, blah blah blah. What they suggest to fix it is to squat down using the correct form (which you're attempting to do) just to the point where you start to lose your balance, then hold there for a minute. Just like stretching, if you repeat this for a significant amount of time daily/bi-daily you'll eventually gain the flexibility you are wanting to squat down without losing your balance. The article is from a guy addressing the east of people in 3rd world countries he's taught weightlifting to, because the sitting position for them is generally to pop a squat and they have no problem doing it with their heels down.

    I did this myself and it worked pretty good for me. Another exercise you can do to loosen up the hips is the goblet squat, but stay in the down position and rock lightly back and forth in a way you can feel it in your hips. You can also raise up a few inches, hold for a minute, raise up a few more inches, hold for a minute . . . etc..

    This is the way I learned to squat correctly and it transferred into weighted squats very well. I usually do what I wrote as a warmup for squats or deadlifts as well. It's not something that happens overnight though. I would warm up doing those techniques, then do them for your cool down as well, and then again during any stretching routine you do.
     
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    you don't need a straight back when doing BW squats unless you weight half a ton. the straight back is to avoid transmitting an external load to the spine. it's worth developing the capacity to squat BW with a straight back (or at least to get the sense of how to activate the relevant muscles, even if you can't actually go into lumbar extension), if you plan on adding load in the future, but you'll have to tweak your technique to adapt to the balance shift anyway. for flexibility, it will also help you stretch your hip flexors a little, but in my case at least the ankles are a much more prominent factor in squatting mobility, and there are better ways to work them (one of them, funnily enough, being added weight :p).
     
  13. flaming

    flaming Valued Member

    Thanks for the replies.

    What about single leg squats, is a slight arch necesary at the bottom of those when using aditional weight?
     
  14. cloystreng

    cloystreng Valued Member

    The idea is the same for the single leg and the bilateral squat. You want the spine to be in the best possible position to take the external load. The important thing is that the back stays tight and in the same position, especially at the bottom. Single leg squats tend to hit very low depth, and from my experience that is when people tend to become more lax.
     
  15. cloystreng

    cloystreng Valued Member


    In the hang cleans, you are starting to accelarate the second pull too early. It looks like it barely gets to the center of your thighs and you are already having the bar leave you leg. This happens on the first, second, but not the third, which is why you caught the bar on your heels on the third but on your toes a bit on the 1 and 2 lifts of the set. If you could set the camera up higher like on a bench, it might be easier to see. But thats why the bar is looping forward. Your pull itself seems like too much arms but it isn't bad. You are just starting the 2nd pull too early. Wait longer before letting the bar leave your body to come up for the catch.

    In the full clean you are looking at the ground. I'm not saying it needs to be like this,
    [​IMG]
    but find a point in front of you and slightly up to look at. Here is me as an example. I'm not looking up, but definetly not down. Don't worry about the mouth, but I think opening the mouth helps a lot. Honestly.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyx81d98_QM&feature=plcp"]Clean 139 kg at 87 kg bodyweight - YouTube[/ame]

    Besides that the second pull was a bit early on the full clean but not as bad as the hang cleans. Overall, not bad. I used to do the same thing but way worse, just focus on waiting to finish the pull.

    Hope that helps. Let me know if I'm not making sense.

    EDIT: I realized that posting a video of my own clean may be a bad idea since I have a very minimal extension, the entirety of my clean is in the second pull and the catch. So don't worry that there is seemingly no extension. I've just decided to live iwth it, and my jerk lags anyway so whatever. That being said, you should be able to see my waiting with the second pull. If you notice I don't wait as long on the final lift, and I jump forward a bit. The best lift to look at, I think, is the 104 kg lift. The bar almost reaches my hip before finishing the pull. You can tell because the bottom of my shirt popped up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  16. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    cheers, man!
     
  17. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj_teMv8Sko"]deadlift. 142kg x2 - YouTube[/ame]

    bar path seems a little wobbly. any idea what's up with that? also, rounded back. bleh.
     
  18. cloystreng

    cloystreng Valued Member

    There are a few things. First thing is set-up. The bar should be right on your shins from the start and never leave your leg. Don't look down at the bar. I have that problem too and it leads to back rounding, look slightly forward/down if you want, that should help.

    Next, start tight and stay tight. Especially the upper back. High level lifters loosen the upper back, but keep the lower back tight, but at the beginner/intermediate level, its best to stick to as perfect form as possible. Some rounding may happen, but focus on keeping your shoulders and lats back, and that may help stop lumbar rounding.

    Last thing I notice is the bar path is mimicking the clean pull, which is wrong. Treat those as two separate movements. In these deadlifts, you shoulders are staying over the bar from the start what would be the first pull, but in a deadlift, you don't want shoulders over the bar. Be behind the bar and pull the bar towards you.

    Your pull off the floor is clearly strong enough to get the bar moving, but the hips rising may be a result of one of two things: weak erectors, or weak quads. I don't know your numbers, so it may be the lumbar spine that needs to catch up, but I know for me everyone was saying "your back is weak" and it was my legs, so take that as you will.

    Hope that helps.

    EDIT:

    I posted two videos, one of me deadlifting with the hips rising, and one of me not doing that. My back rose in the second video because of weak quads. However, in the first video, sometimes I started the lift with my head down, and my back has a clear round to it.

    The good ones:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vR-qGRx4JE&list=UUAQ6v4Atd-tRbrGOw2rdYAQ&index=31&feature=plcp"]300 lb Deadlifts - YouTube[/ame]

    The bad one:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3c70Qfv9yg&list=UUAQ6v4Atd-tRbrGOw2rdYAQ&index=128&feature=plcp"]Deadlifting 430 lbs UMD - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2012
  19. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    @cloystreng: cheers. i'd go with quads, as my front squat is under 100kg at the moment.

    don't quite get you on the clean vs deadlift part, though. shouldn't it be the other way around? (ie shoulders behind the bar with hips low on the clean to sweep it in. for my dead i try to follow rip's guidelines, which specify shoulder-blade, bar and mid-foot in a vertical line.
     
  20. cloystreng

    cloystreng Valued Member

    It's quads then. On the subject of shoulder in front of or behind the bar, if shoulders are behind the bar on the clean then you cannot complete a second pull on the bar. I'm on my phone so I don't have a long explanation there.

    Rippetoe has good deadlier advice. Not for Olympic lifts though. Get your leg strength up and stay tight, keep the bar close and you'll be all set.
     

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