The business of Tae Kwon Do

I don't really think that's a fair analogy. If you are running your dojang as a business, it would be better to compare it to a high street shop - e.g. a grocers. They have certain outgoings, but they cannot guarantee their taking from month to month. I don't know of any grocers near me that charge x-amount per month and get you to sign up to a contract.

Custom Valusia... I thought you said you weren't being charged now?

 

well..yeah...NOW........but before!

 

I'm in Monroe, Louisiana

 

Well the NC tournament was a regional so no.

If you're referring to the nationals in B'ham a year ago, yes quite a few of mine did -- I did my Master Demo there.

 

Rather than quoting Frodo and making this post even longer -- I am responding to his previous post.

I am well aware that not all people who refuse to sign contracts are undedicated. However, the number of undedicated ones is significantly higher among the population that won't sign contracts. Again, from a business perspective, literally EVERY successful school I've seen in the US over the last 20 years has used contracts (for the sake of argument, defining success as remaining open for at least 10 years, able to hire full time assistant instructors and help them become academy owners, and provide a nice standard of living for the owner).

Again, since you want to draw the comparison to other "services" that do and don't use contracts, I will re-state a couple of the most glaring examples. First -- private schools and universities. Private elementary and secondary schools require you to pay the entire year's tuition, regardless of whether you drop out (or are expelled) mid-year. Universities require the entire semester's payment be made up front.

Second -- Health clubs. I don't know about the UK, but here it is all but impossible to find a full service health club that will let you enroll on anything shorter than a six month term. Even if you go twice, and then never return, you owe for the six month period. Is this unfair? Not if they tell you the terms up front.

At the end of the day, why do successful schools use contracts? Because their members are willing to sign them. Similarly, why do successful schools charge $90 (US) or more per month? Because their members are willing to pay it. I know it's confusing for the socialists on the board, but free market capitalism is what it is. If my way wasn't working (i.e. if there were actually decent schools around here without contracts), I'd be forced to adapt or find another business. There's not, so I don't.

 

oh yeah...forgot that it was regional! lol

That means I should have a video of your demo then! My wife recorded them all...tons of fun!

 

Again, I'm not sure how colleges in the states work - but I'm a student at Oxford university, which most people will agree is of acceptable standing. I pay for my degree (a masters) based on each course. Should I decide not to take the full 10 courses I need to my masters, I pay for only those I do take.

While when I first joined a gym 6 or so years ago most gyms were on contract, now more and more have realised that they are losing customers this way. (word of mouth spreads fast when someone pays for something they don't use). I now am a member of a gym that charges me monthly, without a contract. The gym includes an olympic sized swimming pool, 4 rooms of cardio equipment 1 of weights and 2 of weight-like machines. Additionally, there are 3 "general use" rooms... Ironically, I believe it's an american chain (Virgin Active) - they do have contract options, but they also have non-contract options.

While I agree to disagree on most points, I find this fairly offensive. Why must you bring politics into the matter? What does socialism have to do with things? Why do you feel that your views are superior to anyone elses? Why do you insist on degrading those that believe in socialism?

On a side note, you can't really compare american and british prices. It just doesn't work. What a British would consider "cheap" would be quite expensive in the US. You would need to adapt it with the cost-of-living index, which complicates matter quite a bit.

Frankly, I believe that with the economy in its current state, it's a buyers market. I wish all the best to your club, but I see more and more consumers (and companies that wish to float) moving away from a contract-based system.

M.

 

I think martial arts is the exception to this rule, that and a Mercedes Main Dealer

Except BJJ, I can now see why they generally have to charge so much, the tutition and training is so hands on and has to been seen up close and from many different angles.

 

I thought I made it clear in a previous post that I already acknowledged that things are different for you guys in the UK. However, since my school isn't in the UK, I don't have to deal with the general rebellion against contracts. Here, health clubs are not moving away from contracts. Neither are martial arts schools. No business owners are interested in not being paid.

What I referred to as socialist is those individuals who say that I shouldn't be "allowed" to require prospective members to sign contracts if they want to join my club. Now, in answer to your other question, I insist on degrading those who believe in socialism because it is a utopian ideal that does not bring out the best in anybody but encourages all of the citizenry to be remarkably mediocre. I don't feel my views are superior to EVERYONE else's, just those who are proponents of socialism.

 

Face it you do what you can to make a living and from your posts you're doing OK. Have to give credit where it's due. I'd proberly do the same myself.
To us it's a hobby (well was) so I'm looking from an idealistic perspective, if my money was on the line I'd proberly charge them to park outside as well.
Keep up the good work!

 

See above as to who I consider socialist. I have no problem with people who want to discount services, offer scholarships, or have some form of work-study system for dedicated students who are unable to pay. In fact, I have done all three. What I don't believe in is openly saying "you pay based on what you can afford." The only people who like that system are the poor and the stupid (no I'm not calling the poor stupid, I'm charging the guy that pays more because "he can afford it" stupid).

Are my arguments easier to challenge when you misstate them? I said that not all people who refuse to sign contracts are less dedicated, but that the less dedicated are usually reluctant to sign a contract. If that is confusing I'm sorry. By the way, I'm still waiting on the examples of successful American schools that don't use contracts. (Previous success definition -- open more than 10 yrs, instructor is full-time, have developed other full-time instructors).

I'm sorry the truth is inconvenient. Successful schools can charge more because they have an established track record of success.

But now you're not talking business, and that is what this discussion is about. If you would like to discuss technical skill, general effectiveness, or tournament prowess we can have that discussion elsewhere.

 

Thank you for your honesty in clarifying the difference in idealism and reality. It has been a fun debate though.

 

I can see where you're coming from in terms of what money can buy clients.

Watching Dodgeball last night reminded me of this thread..
"at Globo Gym we're better than you and we know it!"

 

So you believe in free markets, which Alan Greenspan (chairman of the US federal reserve) "found a flaw" in? That system which is colapsing around us? (and in fact, required a quite interesting injection of cash from the government... sounds like communism/socialism may just be the proposed solution!)

I would be interested in seeing in 10 years where "our" economies (and nations) stand... I wouldn't be surprised to see a pro-communism country (China?) be the worlds dominant superpower...

but that's just me being idealistic... or is that pessimistic?

M

p.s. wow we have drifted OT here!

 

For the record, the collapse of the US Home Financing Market was not due to free market capitalism but by government intervention in requiring sub-prime lending. But we can have that conversation another day.

Hey maybe the US government will offer a bailout to people in martial arts contracts who don't want to train also.