Breaking Walls and Stuff

[Kibbles]

If I were to try to learn to break really hard vertical surfaces such as brick walls with my bare hands, what should I do? ... and more importantly what should I not do (aside from not attempt the feat in the first place)?

This is more an attempt to figure out how to train for one narrow aspect of an "ultimate punch" than to actually cause harm to brick walls.

[SpikeD]

Walls don't hit back. :)

I have no idea how to punch a brick wall without the brick wall winning, I'm a little unsure as to what exactly an ultimate punch is TBH. Could you elaborate?

[simon s]

I am sure it could be done, you could easily show me clips posted on you-tube, I still say it is stupid.

Train smart and train into later life. Who wants hands like a bunch of bananas? Not me.

[Kibbles]

Walls don't hit back. :)

I have no idea how to punch a brick wall without the brick wall winning, I'm a little unsure as to what exactly an ultimate punch is TBH. Could you elaborate?

My idea of an ultimate punch is thus:
It's not telegraphic and can't be anticipated
It's too fast to be blocked
It's too powerful to be blocked
No one can withstand the punch

In short, it does not exist.

The question I posted is about the "It's too powerful to be blocked" & "No one can withstand the punch" parts.

It's a somewhat theoretical question that has to do with my punch training.

[Killa_Gorillas]

My idea of an ultimate punch is thus:
It's not telegraphic and can't be anticipated
It's too fast to be blocked
It's too powerful to be blocked
No one can withstand the punch

In short, it does not exist.

The question I posted is about the "It's too powerful to be blocked" & "No one can withstand the punch" parts.

It's a somewhat theoretical question that has to do with my punch training.

I think breaking is an antiquated form of conditioning and demonstration of power. If you want to develp a devestating punch you are going to be better off developing power by hitting a heavy bag, developing your form and developing an excellent sense of timing. Smashing your hands into brick walls is pointless, even theoretically :hat:

[SpikeD]

OK cool.

So in essence you want to further your training by focusing on learning to develop a punch that doesn't exist? I understand the theoretical part but the training aspect, if the theory is impossible, eludes me. If you want to learn how to punch hard i'm sure some of the pugilists on here could offer advice but i doubt it requires any special training or understanding.

[Fish Of Doom]

go weight-train, do iron palm, and perfect your structure.

most similar thing you'll ever find.

oh, and spar.

[Kibbles]

I am sure it could be done, you could easily show me clips posted on you-tube, I still say it is stupid.

Train smart and train into later life. Who wants hands like a bunch of bananas? Not me.

Your concern is noted. A palm strike then?

[simon s]

OK cool.
If you want to learn how to punch hard i'm sure some of the pugilists on here could offer advice but i doubt it requires any special training or understanding.

Spot on, nothing difficult, nothing secret, just body mechanics.

To use a saying from Tai Chi "when one part hits, all parts hit".

Lets take the rear cross, since that is the punch seen as the knockout punch. I always liken it as follows: -

Have you ever been in the house with the front door and back door open when the wind rips through the house, how damn hard does one of the doors slam. That is what your rear cross should be like. One side of the body locks off (the hinged side of the door), while the other side from the toe, knee, hip, trunk and shoulder all slam into the direction of the punch. Simple. All parts coming together as one.

Another way to imagine it is the whip. All momentum gathering to the tip of the whip and crack, it all explodes in one go.

This is what I love about the art now I am older, the body mechanics.

What more do you want, what more is there?

And you can do the above without risk of injury, or banana fingers that you cannot straighten when you are 60.

[Kibbles]

go weight-train, do iron palm, and perfect your structure.

most similar thing you'll ever find.

oh, and spar.

What weight training would you suggest?
Any optimal structure training or strike type you might suggest?

As for sparring, that's for a separate aspect of what I'm trying to figure out. I'm a sparring advocate as well.

[Mitch]

I quite like breaking, just for fun really, though it does have other, limited uses. But that's breaking boards, not smacking a wall :)

Mitch

[Killa_Gorillas]

What weight training would you suggest?
Any optimal structure training or strike type you might suggest?

As for sparring, that's for a separate aspect of what I'm trying to figure out. I'm a sparring advocate as well.

With regards to weights I'd suggest compound lifting - heavy, low rep, explosive lifts with an emphasis on the posterior chain... if you really want to kno wwhat to lift for power then head over to the lifting section and maybe hit up the t-nation boards too.

I still say bag work, form and timing is what you want though.

[Fish Of Doom]

HEAVY weight training. full-body. the structure for whatever strike you want to develop. structure is correct body mechanics optimized for whatever strike you're doing, so train technique, strengthen the muscles you need for that technique, make your joints limber so they don't adversely affect your movements through muscle tightness, and then strike the everliving <beep> out of a heavy bag.

aaaand no :p . spar more, and more frequently. doing isolated techniques and applying them to someone else are two very different things, and all your training will be worth jack squat if you can't hit anyone with it.

[Kibbles]

Good points and pointers everyone.



What more do you want, what more is there?

And you can do the above without risk of injury, or banana fingers that you cannot straighten when you are 60.

Your mention of banana knuckles is one of the "consequences/risks I didn't specifically think of but knew existed". It's the reason I posted this here before trying anything drastic.

[Doublejab]

My idea of an ultimate punch is thus:
It's not telegraphic and can't be anticipated
It's too fast to be blocked
It's too powerful to be blocked
No one can withstand the punch

In short, it does not exist.

The question I posted is about the "It's too powerful to be blocked" & "No one can withstand the punch" parts.

It's a somewhat theoretical question that has to do with my punch training.

The single most important thing about a good punch, or any other strike, is something you haven't listed. Without it you can hit as hard and fast as you like and it will still do you no good.

Can you guess what it is?

[Mitch]

Can you guess what it is?

Didn't know you were Rolf Harris :D

Mitch

[bassai]

As an isolation technique lay into a heavy bag hard and often , but as others have said it's kinda pointless without some sparring to learn timing and distance.

[Kibbles]

The single most important thing about a good punch, or any other strike, is something you haven't listed. Without it you can hit as hard and fast as you like and it will still do you no good.

Can you guess what it is?

Uh... hitting the other guy? I thought that was covered by the definition of a punch.

[Kibbles]

HEAVY weight training. full-body. the structure for whatever strike you want to develop. structure is correct body mechanics optimized for whatever strike you're doing, so train technique, strengthen the muscles you need for that technique, make your joints limber so they don't adversely affect your movements through muscle tightness, and then strike the everliving <beep> out of a heavy bag.

aaaand no :p . spar more, and more frequently. doing isolated techniques and applying them to someone else are two very different things, and all your training will be worth jack squat if you can't hit anyone with it.

Good tips.

Yes. Sparring. Gah! You're preaching to the converted. I spar whenever I can.

Also, you can't apply a technique in sparring if you don't know it yet. You just kinda screw it up in the middle of the match and get hit hard or hurt yourself with your own mistakes.

I know how to train for speed and accuracy, more or less. I've always had decent power so I've never considered training for that until now.

[Doublejab]

Uh... hitting the other guy? I thought that was covered by the definition of a punch.

Timing. Its almost impossible overstate how important it is. A wall doesn't help your timing. Even bags do as they swing. If anything punching a wall will hurt your punching ability in the longer term as pretty soon you won't be able to punch very well due to hand damage.

[Doublejab]

Didn't know you were Rolf Harris :D

Mitch

Hero of my youth! His influence remains

[Killa_Gorillas]

Uh... hitting the other guy? I thought that was covered by the definition of a punch.

Nee Naaaa :hat:

You shoul dhave got that one you had enough hints haha



you are going to be better off [...]developing an excellent sense of timing.

...timing is what you want though.

all your training will be worth jack squat if you can't hit anyone with it.

sparring to learn timing and distance.

:hat::p;)

[seiken steve]

slegehammer.

[Killa_Gorillas]

YouTube - Sledgehammer - Peter Gabriel

[seiken steve]

Didn't take long.

I should have known it was coming.

Supprised at the lack of pink floyd on this thread.

[Killa_Gorillas]

I'm nothing if not predictable :hat:

[cejames]

If I were to try to learn to break really hard vertical surfaces such as brick walls with my bare hands, what should I do? ... and more importantly what should I not do (aside from not attempt the feat in the first place)?

This is more an attempt to figure out how to train for one narrow aspect of an "ultimate punch" than to actually cause harm to brick walls.

DO NOT TRY TO LEARN TO BREAK BRICK WALLS WITH YOUR BARE HANDS! If you wish to have an "ultimate punch" then learn about body mechanics.

[Kibbles]

Nee Naaaa :hat:

You shoul dhave got that one you had enough hints haha

:hat::p;)

Ah well :confused:

It's good I posted here then. (I guess I'm dense then)
I don't usually consciously think of timing. I guess my timing's okay but that's something else I'll have to train.

I hope this thread has provided amusement to some people

[Kibbles]

DO NOT TRY TO LEARN TO BREAK BRICK WALLS WITH YOUR BARE HANDS! If you wish to have an "ultimate punch" then learn about body mechanics.

I'm learning body mechanics as well. I thought it was fairly clear that I'm not merely learning to break brick walls with my bare hands. It would be nice if you could elaborate on your ideas on body mechanics.

I was just considering one aspect of a punch separate from the rest.

The "destroying a brick wall" is an improbable goal. But if say you had to train to be able to do such a thing even just once (Whether or not you will ever actually do the thing) without destroying your hands during training, how would you actually attempt to go about it? I guess that's a better way to pose the question.

You could say it's impossible but that would be boring and wouldn't even get someone remotely in the direction of the goal.

I'm actually glad of the tips I'm getting from this thread but "don't hit brick walls" has already been mentioned.

[Knight_Errant]

what you want to do, right, is go out and find a brick wall. Then bash your head against it. One day, your head might be harder than the wall! Or, at the very least, you'll know how people feel about this sort of question.

[Kibbles]

Anyway,

Yes, punching brick walls is stupid, but from another perspective so is punching people you don't have any quarrel with, and so is jumping across buildings without safety equipment, or swimming the English channel, and a whole lot of other stuff like that.

What I was interested in was the development of human capabilities beyond what others think is possible.

I got some good tips on power and punching in general from some of the previous posters, thanks guys, so I'll just start from there and give this thing a rest so as to stop bothering you all.

[47MartialMan]

If I were to try to learn to break really hard vertical surfaces such as brick walls with my bare hands, what should I do? ... and more importantly what should I not do (aside from not attempt the feat in the first place)?

This is more an attempt to figure out how to train for one narrow aspect of an "ultimate punch" than to actually cause harm to brick walls.

No such thing as the "ultimate punch"


Breaking is no test of skill and requires no training.

It is only a confidence builder and show stopper

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92800