Goju facts

[humblegojuguy]

Can anyone there give me any little known facts about Goju-ryu ? Facts that not everyone knows for example, not well know things like it means "Hard / Soft". Or just tell me what you like most about Goju-ryu. AS well tell me is there any good Goju sites out there ? List them. Any sites with Goju clips on it ? I want to expand my knowlegde of Goju and the internet is a great place to start. If you can help please do. Thanks from one Goju guy in Canada.

[humblegojuguy]

Hello ???? Where are my fellow Goju MA ??? No one here has anything to say ??? I am the only Goju MA that comes here or what ? ......... Is that a pin dropping I hear.... lol

[gojuman]

Your question is just too broad for me to answer seriously. I would have to know what you know before I could tell you some thing that you don't know.
Perhaps the best thing I can tell you is that Goju is so deap that you could never possibly learn it all. Each movement has a layered meaning that can only be disected from thousands of repetitions.
Check out www.foxdojo.com to see how Goju has gone through an evolution.

[Andrew Green]

Miyagi opposed the belt ranking system, it wasn't added until after his death.

He felt that people would judge others based on there rank, rather then there ability/character.

[humblegojuguy]

Thanks Gojuman for the site. I'm not looking for anything mind blowing anything interesting is good, ie see Andrew's comments. Thanks Andrew. I don't like testing or belts either, I think they are a bit of a waste, when people see you in class they will know how good you are.

[Nicholai]

Hello humblegojuguy

I am thinking about starting Goju. I can't tell you anything about the style but I have found this forum useful Link Removed (http://deleted.com)

[humblegojuguy]

Thanks it looks great. I will look at it. Thanks again.

[kempocos]

I have the Honor to train with Luis Morales of the GOJO RYU kENSHIKAI he is old style OKINAWIAN in his approach. He is currently a 7th Dan and the highest ranking member in the USA. His Instructor is in Okinawa. He is very friendly and if you email him question he will more than likely respond to them. I also like he didi not see the need to start his own version and promote himself to 10th dan as so many do.

http://www.uskenshikai.com

[Rhineville]

only little tidbit that I know is the fact that free sparring wasn't started until Gogen Yamaguchi hit the scene.

[Goju]

its composed mainly of traditional okinawan naha-te and chinese ma like kung fu and tai chi. The Hard coming from the snapping nahate techniques and the soft coming from the soft flowing chinese ma. In traditional goju sanchin kata is the first one you learn and is considered the most important. THe taikyoku katas are not a part of traditional goju, they were created in japan as were gekisai ichi and ni to present a basic kata that would be taught in gym class to students as part of sd training. Due to its dynamic tension in katas and extensive weight training, goju is believed to give an early death to some practitioners. Goju means hard soft, but goju-ryu is far from the only ma to use relaxed (soft) and tensed (hard) techniques...in fact all ma do (except some tai-chi styles). Over the years goju has developed in many ways, there is now traditional okinawan goju ryu (miyagi) (of course), japanese goju (yamaguchi), chinese goju (no idea), and american goju (peter urban).

[gojuman]

[[/B][/QUOTE] Due to its dynamic tension in katas and extensive weight training, goju is believed to give an early death to some practitioners.

Where did you get this myth from?

[Goju]

maybe you should read more... every book i've read about goju mentions that...it pretty much only applys to people who train goju everyday, as their lifestyle.It can cause muscle defects and other things too. The average karateka should't worry about it though. The original okinawan goju was very tough. It involved extensive, daily, body conditioning, weight training, and sanchin kata. If you want I can scan you the section out of my book, once I hook up the scanner.

[Megilar]

Myth? Of course, if anybody has trained in Goju Ryu for a considerable amount of time, then you should have indeed heard about the myth. And it's not a myth, either. But that's only if you do it the wrong way. For example, in Sanchin Kata (sorry humblegojuguy if you don't know what I'm talking about), there are intense breathing exercises that need to be done in a specific way. You breath in with all the pressure being around your lower stomach, and out with the pressure in the same spot. Some people, however, do it incorrectly, and put too much pressure on their head or elsewhere when they breath out. Why would people do this? They were taught incorrectly. There was a splash of practioners in the decades after WWII who didn't quite know everything they are talking about. At least, this is what I am told.

As for other things about Goju Ryu? I suggest you just stay practicing the art and you'll come to know many things. It's kind of hard to just 'say' what Goju Ryu is like...

[gojuman]

Indeed. Doing sanchin breathing incorrectly has the potential for problems , but if you learn and practice properly you will be fine

[gojuman]

maybe you should read more... every book i've read about goju mentions that...it pretty much only applys to people who train goju everyday, as their lifestyle.It can cause muscle defects and other things too. The average karateka should't worry about it though. The original okinawan goju was very tough. It involved extensive, daily, body conditioning, weight training, and sanchin kata. If you want I can scan you the section out of my book, once I hook up the scanner.

Maybe I should read more? Maybe you should learn more and learn not to believe everything you read. Please remeber that you are only a 3rd Kyu. If you continue your Goju studies you will come to realize where this myth has come from.
This is indeed a myth propegated by people practicing their ikibuki breathing in correctly or witnessing karateka who practice it incorrectly. I have seen plenty of kyus hold their breath and force the ikibuki breathing and it is no wonder that they might hurt themselves.
It is not a Goju trait that will hurt you it is working on something incorrectly. It is like saying that weight lifting is bad for your back. Sure it is if you lift incorrectly, but if you practice the technique in the proper manner you will be fine.
There are many benifits to learning the sanchin and tensho kata. Practicing them back to back three times in a row can give a strong work out plus revitalize your mind and body if you are fatigued.
Keep practicing, and listen to how your sensei is breathing very carefully.(hopefully he/she does it right). Be sure that you do not create a reverse pressure on your self by stopping the breath with a closed throat or with your tongue. The breath is controlled from your lower abdoman and by working the ikibuki breathing you will develop strong muscles and increase your endurance for fighting.

[Goju]

ok.....I think its time you calmed down. I wasn't even talking about that. The reason it was written about goju only is because of goju ryu traditions. These include hours of nigiri gami, maki wara, weight training, ibuki, and sanchin kata testing. Remember, I was talking about over in Okinawa where karate is life for many people. Some are sanchin tested weekly, even daily when first learning. A combination of the strikes to the stomach, kicks to the legs and groin area, ibuki breathing, and other things are very dangerous to your health, if they are practised everyday. Other karate ryu don't practise sanchin kata this way. It has nothing to do with doing it incorrectly or else it would apply to any ma. It's about over doing it, and doing it the way traditional goju karateka do it. And you don't have to get all defensive alright. I train goju because its my favourite ma, Im not here to say its going to kill you, or that its bad for you, It was just something I remembered and added to the post.

[okinawagojuryu]

The kicks to the legs , strikes to the stomack , etc . ; are more a thing practiced in mainland Japan . The Shime as practiced in Okinawa is used more as a tool to fix your Sanchin , then to see how much you can withstand .

[humblegojuguy]

Thats all great stuff guys. Does anyone know who made each Kata in Goju-ryu and what year it was made. I know some are very old and knowbody knows who made them but some are known.

[gojuman]

I study USA Goju which was created by Peter Urban after he left Yamaguchi and Japan and started his own style in New York. While the Kata are similar to Goju Ryu there are very significant diferences. To answer your question though, the kata that I know were really re-created in the 1950's from the original Goju Ryu kata which were created sometime in the 30's or 40's by Yamaguchi.. There are older kata such as Sanchin and Tensho that would have been created by Miagi sometime in the early 1900's.
I practice the following kata. I have listed the creator in parenthese, but this is not guarenteed to be totaly accurate because I can not say for sure that either Yamaguchi or Urban created the kata, but I am pretty sure that if they did not create it then someone in their direct lineage did. Some of the Kata have the same name in USA Goju as in Goju Ryu, but the kata is completely different. Kururunfa that I know is nothing like the kururunfa that I have seen Goju Ryu karateka perform.
Teki 1, 2and 3 (Yamaguchi)
Tekioko 1,2,and 3 (Yamaguchi)
Soft Tekioko (Urban)
Empi ha (Urban)
Saifa (Yamaguchi)
Gekesai sho (Yamaguchi)
Gekisai dai (Yamaguchi)
Sanchin (Yamaguchi)
Tensho (Yamaguchi)
Gengaku te (Urban)
Tekioko empi go(Urban)
Kururunfa (Urban)
Genshoi (Urban)

There are more kata in USA Goju, but they are not learned until Yo Dan and above.

[KenpoDavid]

I study USA Goju which was created by Peter Urban after he left Yamaguchi and Japan and started his own style in New York.

Is this related to Lou Angel and Tenshi Goju at all?

What is the impression you goju people have of Mr. Angel and his style?

[gojuman]

Is this related to Lou Angel and Tenshi Goju at all?

What is the impression you goju people have of Mr. Angel and his style?

I think Angel is a student of Urban and I have no opinion about him.

[Goju]

My sensei has trained with/under sensei peter urban in the past. Even though the two goju styles are different he said Urban was a very good instructor.

[okinawagojuryu]

The Gekisai Series , as well as tensho was created by Miyagi Sensei . Some say that Saifa , and maybe a few others were also created by him as well . Originally the Kata Sanchin was done w/ open hands , & Miyagi was credited w/ changing it to closed handed . However there is some dispute about that , some say Kanryo Higashionna was the one that indeed did change Sanchin , & not Miyagi Sensei . The majority of the rest of the kata come from either/or Whooping White Crane , or Tiger Style Chuan Fa , from Fukien Province China .

[KenpoDavid]

I think Angel is a student of Urban and I have no opinion about him.

Yes I 'm sure that is true . Mr. Urban introduced Mr.Angel to The Cat back in the 60s (or even 50s). I was just wondering if anyone into Goju knew much about Lou Angel since then.

[gojuman]

Yes I 'm sure that is true . Mr. Urban introduced Mr.Angel to The Cat back in the 60s (or even 50s). I was just wondering if anyone into Goju knew much about Lou Angel since then.
Here is a USA Goju Lineage Chart. Lou Angel is identified there as a student of Urban and Yamaguchi.
http://www.geocities.com/alaumirm/USAGojuLineageChart.htm

[kempocos]

The following is from the USA KENSHIKAI Hombo website, this is the USA Hombo for Sensei Tetsuhiro Hokama.

this is Miyagi Sensei original curriculum.


Miyagi Chojun Bushi (founder of Goju-Ryu) stated in his 1934 "Outline of Karate-Do" (China hand way), the method in
which Karate should be practiced:

Yobi undo: preliminary exercises. Yobi undo (now called Junbi undo) are a set of warm-ups beginning with the feet and
ending with head. They are performed to increase muscular flexibility while at the same time encouraging strength and
stamina. Warm-ups prepare one to better perform and learn kihon kata. After completing kihon kata, the Yobi undo are
performed again in effort to rejuvenate the muscle, followed by breathing exercises and relaxation.

Kihon Kata: basic, fundamental formal exercises. Sanchin, Tensho, Gekisai dai ichi and Gekisai dai ni are kihon kata that
serve as practices for cultivating a strong physique while encouraging martial way spirit. Students learn to regulate their
breath while coordinating it with the use of their power in correct posture. Note: In 1940, Miyagi Chojun Bushi formulated
the Gekisai kata which he included in the kihon curriculum. Also Tensho kata is now categorized under Heishu kata
(closed hand formal exercise).

Hojo undo: supplementary exercises. These drills are based upon techniques from various kata. It helps one to better
understand the kaishu kata (open hand formal exercises). Also performed with various kinds of training apparatus, these
unique exercises can serve to improve either a particular skill or overall proficiency. Doing supplementary training with
various training apparatus (kiguhojo undo) the practitioner will develop tremendous strength throughout the body.

Kaishu Kata: open hand formal exercises. Without naming all the katas. Suitably interwoven, each kata combines both
offensive and defensive techniques in various parameters that one observes while practicing. Hence, it is through
practicing these movements and understanding their purpose that one is brought closer to understanding the relationship
between body and mind. In doing so, the principles of toki and musubi can be cultivated. Note: After Miyagi Chojun Bushi
taught Sanchin kata he usually chose a kata for each student depending on the student's body type and had him or her
practice that particular kata until they mastered it. At the time when he wrote the "Outline of Karate-do" kata were not
taught in any particular order.


The site has very accurate info.

[Rhineville]

I heard that if you do sanchin correctly (VERY hard) but DON'T breathe, your head will explode...

..... or you'll knock yourself unconcious, but saying you're head will explode scares kids into doing it properly more!

[moononthewater]

I was led to believe Go ju came from a poem and its meaning was not so much hard / soft but to do with breathing in and out!

[gojuman]

I think go and ju are and can be inerpreted in many ways. Breathing in and out is one way. Hard and soft is also true. I think equating go and ju with yin and yang would also be correct or simply the balance of oposites. Hard is oposite to soft and breathing in is oposite to breathing out.
Goju teaches the nature of balance. Linear vs cricular. In out. Hard /soft. The list goes on and the goju karateka learns more and more as he/she progresses through their life in Goju.

[Telsun]

The Gekisai Series , as well as tensho was created by Miyagi Sensei . Some say that Saifa , and maybe a few others were also created by him as well . Originally the Kata Sanchin was done w/ open hands , & Miyagi was credited w/ changing it to closed handed . However there is some dispute about that , some say Kanryo Higashionna was the one that indeed did change Sanchin , & not Miyagi Sensei . The majority of the rest of the kata come from either/or Whooping White Crane , or Tiger Style Chuan Fa , from Fukien Province China .

Yes the gekisai were created by Miyagi. Tensho was "created" by Miyagi but not from scratch, he was inspired by Rokkisho (six wind hands). Sanchin is really surrounded by mystery you can read about my thoughts and findings here Sanchin (http://www.gojuforums.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=96)

It is generally believed that all kata beginning with 'S' originate from China.

[Telsun]

I was led to believe Go ju came from a poem and its meaning was not so much hard / soft but to do with breathing in and out!

Apparently Chojun Miyagi was inspired by the Bubishi in naming his style.
The 3rd of the Eight Precepts of Quanfa reads:

"Ho goju danto" - The way of inhaling and exhaling is hardness and softness

....not a poem ;)

[okinawagojuryu]

Yes , it did come from a poem , from within the Bubishi . I believe it is called The Eight Poems of the fist , or sometimes called the Kempo Haiku . I have it around here somewher , I just have to find it .
There is some debate as to wheather or not Rokkishu was an actual form , or a portion of the bubishi . But no doubt Miyagi was inspired by the Bubishi , when creating the Kata Tensho .
I tried opening your link , but had no luck .

David

[Telsun]

Okay link is fixed :)

I did not know that it was a poem. I am still waiting for my copy of the Bubishi, but I generally see it written as :

1. The mind is one with heaven and earth

2. The circulatory rhythm of the body is similar to the cycle of the sun and moon

3. The way of inhaling and exhaling is hardness and softness

4. Act in accordance with time and change

5. Technique will occur in the absence of conscious thought

6. The feet must advance and retreat, separate and meet

7. The eyes do not miss even the slightest change

8. The ears listen well in all directions

(or something like that)

Obviously it is probably much more poetic in it's native language and as with most translations it has lost it's beauty and become an academic text.

And you are right I have never seen a Rokkisho kata, so perhaps it was just a concept.

[okinawagojuryu]

There are a few people that claim to know a version of Rokkishu , & have even put it out on video ; but I seriously doubt this is They Rokkishu , that Tensho was based on .

[KenpoDavid]

the kempo hakku on a sweat towel... I bought one of these last year but I don't dry my sweat with it...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16044&item=3677131327&rd=1

Can anyone translate those characters for me?

-David

http://pix.auctiva.com/pix/08/43/22/goju-ryu_towel.jpg

[okinawagojuryu]

Here it is :

Eight poems of the Fist:

The human mind is one with heaven and earth.
Our blood circulation parallels the solar and lunar cycles of each day.
Inhaling represents softness while exhaling characterizes hardness.
Adapt to changing conditions.
Response must result without conscious thought.
Distancing and posture dictates the outcome of the meeting.
See what is unseeable.
Expect what is unexpected.

[okinawagojuryu]

Hey Kenpo David , Did you get it from Jason ? I got 1 too . I have it hanging on my Shomen wall , I hope to have somone do it for me ( write the Kanji )when I goto Okinawa this year .

The other David ,

[KenpoDavid]

Hey Kenpo David , Did you get it from Jason ? I got 1 too . I have it hanging on my Shomen wall , I hope to have somone do it for me ( write the Kanji )when I goto Okinawa this year .

The other David ,

Yes, he often has very intersting stuff for sale. What a small world!

Mine hangs on a wall too, not in a gym bag. Altho I just started working out and I need a sweat towel, so why not... I would want to memorize the poem for when somebody asks "what does your towel say" LOL

I have ordered smoe "special order" calligrpahy from this artist,a nd was very happy witht he quality and price: I beleive thaey are in canada.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=japanese-meditation&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

[okinawagojuryu]

I was ck'ing out your profile earlier , I think it said you do Shaolin Kenpo , would that be Mr.Castro's group ? If so , just out of curiosity , ho does it differ from Ed Parkers Kenpo ? I'm somewhat of a history buff , & like to find out about other styles .

[KenpoDavid]

I was ck'ing out your profile earlier , I think it said you do Shaolin Kenpo , would that be Mr.Castro's group ? If so , just out of curiosity , ho does it differ from Ed Parkers Kenpo ? I'm somewhat of a history buff , & like to find out about other styles .

No, it's not Castros'. It's "Geary's Shaolin Kempo", based on Villaris' and Cerio's arts. I think it is very close to Cerio's. many techniques are the same form teh video's of NCK techniques that I have seen.

Most "Shaolin Kempo" is base don Kajukenbo / Karazenpo, through Villari and Cerio... but I understand that Castro's is not coming from that branch at all.

[okinawagojuryu]

Have you ever Seen his daughter , she's a hottie , lol .

[KenpoDavid]

Have you ever Seen his daughter , she's a hottie , lol .

yes, and so is Sam Kuoha 's daughter (Kara-Ho Kempo). Within the next 10 years or so it could happen that two different Kenpo styles will be headed by really hot babes LOL :love:

[Cain]

I usually feel pretty mean to interrupt but......*cough*PMs*cough* :)

|Cain|

[okinawagojuryu]

I've never seen Sam Kuoha 's daughter before I'll have to do a web search to ck her out .