Hitting a women in self defence?

[Yukimushu]

When do you feel it is right to strike a woman in self defence?

Me being a guy, naturally i don't like the idea of hitting a woman, but if she were attacking me, be it nails, slapping me etc i feel i would have to do something about it if i felt in any danger.

Would just like your thoughts on the subject because it is a touchy one... Especially when taken to court.

Any female MAP members input/opinions/past experiances are definatly encouraged.

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

hey yukimushu! i think if a women is attacking you its ok to strike in self-defense. but last year when i got hit by steve it was wrong... you shouldn't strike or hit a girl for no reason unless your life is being threatened. some guys don't care and will hit a girl which is pathetically wrong. steve learned his lesson when my brother beat his ass the next day....

[Saz]

Personally I think if a women is attacking someone (male or female) she should expect to get some back, and not be let off simply because she's a women. The right time to attack them would be when you feel your in real danger of being hurt. Use as little force as nessecary. If a girl slaps you, there's little point in battering her senseless, and the police would take a dim view of it too. If she's trying to claw your eyes out with her nails, then yes, you need to take some action.

There's been threads on this in the past, do a quick search and have a read through them.

[Poop-Loops]

The second she hits me, it's on. Closed fist, right to the face. I don't go for any of that "Good job *pat on the back*" stuff. :p

PL

[Yukimushu]

Some people will prefer to restrain a woman, some may prefer to strike...

I personally would do what needs to be done depending on the situation.

[Jim]

I always am a fan of the face slap. It's really underrated in de-escalating a situation, be it male or female.

[Yukimushu]

Originally posted by Jim
I always am a fan of the face slap. It's really underrated in de-escalating a situation, be it male or female.

lol also very embarrassing to the recipient :)

[toothpaste100]

A perfectly executed slap can be painful, humiliating and leaves no permanent damage, plus it makes you look very macho...

[estranged13]

my only comment is in todays society it should work both ways, it should be increabbly wrong for a woman to hit a guy or vise versa.

[Jim]

Tp100, I try and make it look as much 'un macho' as possible. This adds even further to the embarassment to the recipient... :D

[Yukimushu]

Originally posted by Jim
Tp100, I try and make it look as much 'un macho' as possible. This adds even further to the embarassment to the recipient... :D

Hehe :D Im gunna have to practice that tomorrow on my bag in the garage lol :)

[toothpaste100]

Originally posted by Jim
Tp100, I try and make it look as much 'un macho' as possible. This adds even further to the embarassment to the recipient... :D

The effect of a slap can also be magnified by a quick purse-whip followup.

[Poop-Loops]

Originally posted by Yukimushu
Some people will prefer to restrain a woman, some may prefer to strike...

Ehh... I personally wouldn't want try to restrain her. She could say you were trying to rape her. Of course, she could claim you were trying to beat/kill her if you strike her. But, I'd rather go to jail a woman beater than a rapist.

PL

[Jim]

PL, been there and got the T-shirt. That very thing happened to me! I managed (after a bloody long time) to clear everything up - I showed that she tried to blackmail me by asking me to pay her $500 to drop the case.

Restraining is effective but (particularly with women) hard to maintain because of the frenzy it can cause. Give way to your panic when restrained and although you do yourself damage you make it VERY hard for the restrainer to hold you.

[Saz]

Originally posted by Yukimushu
lol also very embarrassing to the recipient :)

Very much so. Would you run to the police saying "ooh, that nasty man with the limp wrists slapped me and it stings"?

Though not :D

[toothpaste100]

Imagine what someone would think if you took an attacking woman to guard position?

[aml01_ph]

Heck! Never underestimate a woman.

[nzric]

The point is, what's the object of any fight? The object is to stop the fight, whether it's by "winning" or by getting away. Many women will hit a guy just for the shock value, whether it's a slap or a whack. Not many women will go all out to cause damage like guys do. Therefore, it's much easier to "stop" her.

So how do you "win" against a woman? Women are more natural talkers, so it's probably easier to de-escalate the situation by continuing to talk. I agree about the restraint thing... it's easier to restrain a woman but then her survival instincts will take over and even some witnesses could claim you tried to rape her. Better to keep your distance. One of the first things they teach security guards is if you have to physically control a woman, spin her around and put your hands on her shoulders/back.

I think a well placed hit or a good shove would work. The blunt truth is many women, while getting aggro themselves, just don't expect to get hurt. If a guy goes at you he will be ready to take a couple of shots on the way, but in many situations, giving the attacking woman a good shove will make her think again. Most women throw a punch like they throw a ball - badly. Hit the inside of her forearm with your man hand and that'll do the job.

When would a woman attack you to cause real damage? there's less of a pack mentality with women like there is with men... yeah, a female bystander might give you a kick when her guy friends are trying to beat you up - in that case break her nose, she deserves it. Otherwise... how many lone female muggers are there? If you've cheated on your girlfriend and she gives you a slap, take your medicine like a man.

BTW - none of the above refer to the 'punk' women who get in trouble - you know, the ones where you're walking with her down the street and she yells at the five guys at the corner "whaddya looking at... my boyfriend will ****ing kick your a**."

[Archibald]

Hehe, punk women....i have thme all over the place where i live...and i dont like them....

personally i can see restraining women as a better option, but yes, people can say you were trying to rape her...and yes, i think a good shove can actually work quite well. Take the sting out of them, so to speak.

[Epsilon]

At all cost, I would prefer to use a submission hold if a women attacked me. If worst comes to worst I will hit a women if she has the intent to kill me, or to harm others. Actually, I will think of other ways of not getting into a fight with a women I would try to talk her down, ask her out on a date, or even tell her that "I like it when women beat me, it turns me on!" and hopefully that she laughs at you and calls you" pathetic", "a waste of time" and walks away, or you got her number, this way this is a win, win situation.

[CFT]

Originally posted by nzric
When would a woman attack you to cause real damage? there's less of a pack mentality with women like there is with men... yeah, a female bystander might give you a kick when her guy friends are trying to beat you up - in that case break her nose, she deserves it.

In recent history (within the last 5 years) in the UK, there have been reported cases of "gangs" of young women (teenage girls) going around attacking and even killing people.

[walmart stocker]

don't ever hit a women even if she hits you first ......you will go to jail if you do............

[freespirit]

i don't mean to be sexist at all but it shocks me more to see that there are gangs of women doing that prob more than gangs of guys :eek: :Angel: :eek:

[Kwajman]

Hey, years and years ago I used to work security in a hospital, been slapped, kicked, bit, punched, hair (when I had it) pulled. I have no problems restraining or striking a woman. Fortunately for me, I had megacameras to back me up. Every charge ever leveled against me was dropped after viewing the films. On the street? I'd still defend myself, tho it would be more difficult to prove.

[Adam]

For some reason or another, I've gotten into lots of fights with girls growing up, and my experience is that women as a rule really don't know how to fight properly. (as with most men, actually) I was always able to stand and let them claw away at me without them doing any real damage to me and protecting my groin from possible kicks. Either that or I grabbed hold of their wrists and let them cool down for a bit. I'm by no means a "tough guy" but most men should be able to restrain an angry woman easily.

No disrespect intended for our female MAPers :)

[wayofthedragon]

You cant just stand around and let a female kill you. You've got to defend yourself. But not just with females....in every situations....even small cuddley animals:love:

[Adam]

Untrained females hit like girls, surprisingly. As a martial artist you should really be able to take that kind of petty punishment when she cools down.

[Kwajman]

Small cuddly animals? Like, Kittens, badgers, and Yodas?

[Poop-Loops]

Originally posted by walmart stocker
don't ever hit a women even if she hits you first ......you will go to jail if you do............

If she slaps me, I'll probably just look at her. Or just block it. A slap is a swing, not too hard to block. But if she were to kick me in the nuts...

PL

[ladyhawk]

Let me start off with...

Never Underestimate anyone!

and...

Gender should not be an issue in a defensive situation!

Slapping seems to cause two reactions shock and anger. Therefore I don't use slapping as a solo technique. I see no point in antagonizing a situation making the attempt to defuse the situation with less force more difficult to achieve.

However, I do use slapping as a distraction technique to gain an advantage.

[Jim]

Untrained females hit like girls, surprisingly.
Surprisingly is right. I was surprised when I thought this was true and it turned out not to be. Underestimation leads to unpleasant surprises...

[Sub zero]

i hit one of my female friends in the nose two days ago by mistake. didn't mean it. well .............we we're just having a towel fight thing then she went to slap me............and i just reacted........and sort of hit her in the nose.

whoops.i felt so bad.i would have laughed if it was a guy but i don't like hitting girls..............unless their seriously trying to hurt me.

[Sub zero]

Originally posted by Jim
Surprisingly is right. I was surprised when I thought this was true and it turned out not to be. Underestimation leads to unpleasant surprises...

I don't know............i think it's case by case. I've taught alot of male beginers who "hit like girls" and alot of girls who really pack a punch.

actually heres a notice to all other ma guys on the forum. if you have a female fiend who doesn't do MA and "punches like agirl", DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TEACH HER HOW TO PUNCH. i taught the girl iwas talking about in the previous post years ago.................and have been regreting it ever since.;) :(

[Yukimushu]

lolol :) i know a few girls with a mean punch :)

[Shortfuse]

i remember this story whih is true, about thi really fat ***** who was so mean and tried to littrally kill a boy and his girlfriend becuase they were there. the boy didnt want to fight so he let the girl handle it. the girl amost got her ass beat so the boy had to step in and the fat one bit the boys nipple off where after the boy was forced to beat the living daylights out of that physco.

i feel that you should avoid getting in conflicts with girls. and if they try to attack you u should try to restrain them by grabbing thier arms in a non- manhandling way ( i dunno how thats posslbe) and pray se doesnt kick below the belt

[nzric]

Ok, a few things:

My fiancee has a mean right hook. Luckily I found that out in boxercise class, not at the receiving end. Not all girls punch like girls.

I broke a girls hand once. Not on purpose! We had had too much to drink and I made some crude comment. She went to punch me on the arm but I lifted my arm up at the same time and she punched me on the elbow. Unfortunately she had brittle bones. Some girls break easily.

Also, the first thing many girls are taught is to take a big kick/knee at a guy's groin if you're attacking him. Face it - it's pretty hard to place a kick in exactly the right place on someone's groin if they see you coming. If you were facing up against a guy at least six inches taller than you, would you start by kicking wildly at his n**s and waving open hands at his face?

[xubis]

I have had this argument with many people, I will treat a girl exactly the same as a guy now. I first thought about just trying locks and stuff but have just came to the conclusion that if a girl wants to attack me she is taking exactly the same risks as a guy is. A lot of girls take advantage of the "guys can't hit girls" rule, I have been taking advantage of a few times, most girls that know me know not to try it, and they agree very strongly with how I see the situation.

[Scarlet Mist]

Whether it's a kick aimed at the groin, a fist/claw/nails to the face ... the result is the response is the same ....

evade ..... close fist .... right hand thrust into solar plexus ... she'll be too bent outta shape to fight ...

[pgm316]

Of course you need to do whats needed to defend yourself. But I'd want to avoid being labelled a women beater. Can you imagine having to explain how scarred you was that you needed to hit her ;)

[Rice Krispies]

Im a wrestler. Id first go for restraint. If that didnt work Id start breaking things.

[snailfist]

Originally posted by ladyhawk
Let me start off with...

Never Underestimate anyone!

and...

Gender should not be an issue in a defensive situation!

Slapping seems to cause two reactions shock and anger. Therefore I don't use slapping as a solo technique. I see no point in antagonizing a situation making the attempt to defuse the situation with less force more difficult to achieve.

However, I do use slapping as a distraction technique to gain an advantage.

Ladyhawk- what you say is very true; save that you are a trained MAist, know better techniques than a good hard slap, and have better restraint at only exercising them in self defense.

Having seen angry women before, (not directed at me btw :love: ) 9 out of 10 times any agressive action will be a slap to the face (or perhaps a swift kneecap :eek: if she is too close for that).

However there is that tenth occasion when the attack
will be more serious- either a punch rather than a slap (don't laugh- i know a girl who has concussed a lad in one) in a social situation, or perhaps eg clawing at the eyes in an assault with serious intent.

I personally have a severe compulsion about hitting girls. My stance personally, is to take a slap, block a punch, and use a lock for anything more serious than that. Oh, and stand side on
:D

What action you take does of course depend on the situation, and on your MA- a boxer might have a hard time applying a wrist lock, but an aikido practitioner should be able to restrain her harmlessly without too much difficulty.

[ladyhawk]

snailfist,

True, the average female's defense would probably be a face slap or attempted groin strike because they were conditioned over the years into thinking these are the ultimate techniques for stopping an attack.

I agree that the level of force used to control
and stop an attack depends upon the situation at hand. Each individual encounter is a judgement call.

Gone are the days when women were considered the passive gender so never underestimate anyone when your gut instinct has triggered a warning.

Over the years men were taught not to hit a lady
but if a lady isn't going to behave like a lady and attacks a man then the man has the right to defend himself however his conscience deems appropriate.

[freespirit]

i agree that gender should not matter in situations like these, i would like to think that i would actually not be biased but i still would not hit a lady, as i say i agree that gender shoudln't matter but its natural for me to try not to hit women.

[WingChun Lawyer]

Hm, I once saw two girls fight swinging metal chairs at each other in avery unladylike manner. In situations such as these, I would prefer to (a) stay away, or (b) punch the hell out of both ******s.

Same as with guys, really.

[amiller127]

Was listening to the Comedian Chris Rock talking about this the other day. Here is what he says.

"People say there is NEVER a reason to hit a girl. Theres a reason to hit anybody. Theres a reason to push an old man down a flight of stairs just dont do it!"

"And women you know that you can go too far sometimes. Im a man and if im getting into an argument with a guy bigger than me i know there is a line I dont cross! Women dont seem to know this"

"There is nothing more likely to give you grief and embaress you in a resteraunt as a girl who knows you aint going to hit her. Now dont get me wrong, i dont think its right to hit a women, BUT ill shake the S**t out of one"

Personaly, ive been attacked by an ex girlfriend when she was drunk on a few occasions. And she was in the same art as me and quite senior too. Was one occasion in the middle of Neath town were she all of a sudden decided that she was hungry and felt it would be good to try to eat my arm Left me with her teeth impression on my arm for over a month.

She tried the exact same thing a few years later when she was drunk and had tried hitting me and I had to restrain her. She got her teeth into my arm and the only thing i could do to stop her was to pull my arm in tight to her mouth. She ended up with a cut lip because of it and now tells people i tried to beat her up!! Even though she punched me, kicked me and bit me, according to her I was the one that beat HER up. Im 6 ft, 12 stone and have been training for years. She was 5 4 and about 8 stone. Anyone here think that if i had tried to beat her up she would have been hurt more than a cut lip when I had to ger her to stop biting me.

So my opinion is this. If a girl is trying to cause you physicall harm and you can get away, then you get away. If you cant escape go try and restrain her if possible. If that isnt going to work and she is intent on causing you pain then hitting back is to be used as a last resort. Girls shouldnt have a get out of jail free card if their insistant on trying to kick the hell out of you. You have the same right to live your life free from harm and to defend yourself whether your attacked by a man or women.

But if your a guy who beats women up for no valid reason, just because they annoyed you. You deserve the biggest ass whooping in the world.

[Nordic_Blood]

It doesnt matter what you may be labled, nor does it matter if your attacker is male or female. If you are atacked you should attack without forethought. Showing mercy towards an enemy, is showing cruelty to yourself. The hesitation brought on by milling over the gender issues in your head can get you killed. Survival is the only issue, and that doesnt afford the time to think about merciful actions or gender specific techniques. It means you strike first, strike hard, and do whatever, and I mean whatever it takes to win your survival.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Nordic_Blood
It doesnt matter what you may be labled, nor does it matter if your attacker is male or female. If you are atacked you should attack without forethought. Showing mercy towards an enemy, is showing cruelty to yourself. The hesitation brought on by milling over the gender issues in your head can get you killed. Survival is the only issue, and that doesnt afford the time to think about merciful actions or gender specific techniques. It means you strike first, strike hard, and do whatever, and I mean whatever it takes to win your survival.

I know what your saying, but I still disagree ;)

It does matter what you are labled, it often affects the rest of your life and you have to know you can live with it.

You should consider what you are prepared to do in various situations, most situations I wouldn't go for maximum damage.

[Nordic_Blood]

I have considered, and I most definately can live with it, a great deal of that assuredness comes from being a combat veteran, the rest is just my take on training, but I respectfully see and understand your point.

[Kwajman]

This question is one of the most basic questions in the military. That is why so often the terrorists, Vietcong, Iraqis, Palestinians, etc. etc....use women on occassion. The male mentality is to NOT be as suspicious of a woman as they would be of a man who might be approaching them. If the female is armed? Boooooom, another casualty.

[Nordic_Blood]

Thank you Kwaj, just another way of saying what I was saying. Are you ex military? There is definitely a false dogme instilled in the minds of men when it comes to defense against women, and history shows how it has been exploited. Good point.

[Sonshu]

I dont hit girls
Cant really hit girls
Don't like sparing with girls

I can teach them though - funny but due to my up bringing I can control a girl if I was attacked with locks etc but have never hit one - DESPITE many deserving a good smack.

[Kwajman]

Nordic, not military, but work very closely with several in my job. I see first hand the effects of training styles and how terrorism is approached.

[ladyhawk]

Originally posted by Kwajman
This question is one of the most basic questions in the military. That is why so often the terrorists, Vietcong, Iraqis, Palestinians, etc. etc....use women on occassion. The male mentality is to NOT be as suspicious of a woman as they would be of a man who might be approaching them. If the female is armed? Boooooom, another casualty.


It's not just the male mentality about being suspicious of a women. A child tends to trust
a women more easily then a man.

Also, it's not just gender but a person's appearance in general can be very deceiving.

I'm sure most of us at some time have meet someone and by looking at them you would never guess they were a martial artist.

Stay Aware and listen to your instinct.

A gap in your concentration is a hole in your defense.

[Jim]

Wha... I don't believe it! LH isn't just a legend spoken about in hushed tones in the chat room. She actually exists! ;)

Re: trusting a female, an (sadly) Australian who was a serial rapist and murderer in the USA used a woman he had abducted to lure other women to be abducted. It worked too well and it was a while before he was caught. I think there was a tele-movie about it.

[ladyhawk]

Hello Jim,
Yes, Ladyhawk takes flight on occasion to stretch her wings.

[McCloud]

Originally posted by pgm316
I know what your saying, but I still disagree ;)

It does matter what you are labled, it often affects the rest of your life and you have to know you can live with it.

You should consider what you are prepared to do in various situations, most situations I wouldn't go for maximum damage.

Hm... I disagree... Nordic_Blood has quite a good point there.

Originally posted by Nordic_Blood
If you are atacked you should attack without forethought. Showing mercy towards an enemy, is showing cruelty to yourself. The hesitation brought on by milling over the gender issues in your head can get you killed.

I'd rather be labeled a bad person and woman-beater than lose an eye or get killed by some girl. Women are exactly as dangerous as men, if not more so, because the know that many people will just not strike back.
A friend of mine, who's also into MA nevertheless got himself a nice punch into the solarplexus... The girl that punched him tried the same thing an me, only that I blocked it. It's not like we didn't deserve a slap :D maybe, but a serious punch like that is nothing a take from anybody without a reaction... Better safe than sorry. And also better to have time left to be sorry in than not ;)
just my 2 cents.

[#1 Stutta]

Originally posted by Archibald
Hehe, punk women....i have thme all over the place where i live...and i dont like them....

Heh heh. Same here. But I do like them.

[#1 Stutta]

I don't think I would ever hit a girl with a closed fist. Never have and don't want to. There is one thing I'll do. That is to grab her by her shoulders and shake the hell out of her. I might even throw in some yelling. But that's really only if she goes for a nutshot.

[Yukimushu]

hehe yeah, always be aware of those nut shots!!!

[KickChick]

... noticed that I've kept my mouth shut on this up until now?:D

OK .... I have (on a few occasions in the past) thrown a punch at a man during very heated arguments. Sometimes it is best to physically attempt to hurt a man than to use words that you cannot take back in the future.... at least that is how I rationalize the situation.
Now you may be wondering if the guys have ever hit me back and the answer is NO they haven't.

As previously posted they would attempt to hold me down or turn and displace their aggression on a wall or any other inanimate object to show me that it could have been me instead!

It really does depend on the situation. There are men that are physically abused by their women ... there are men that make inappropriate advances towards women either physically or verbally that may warrant a good slap upside the head to keep them in check.
But most situations can be handled "verbally" rather then "physically" .... and other times they cannot. Sometimes it is best to just leave the situation and cool off rather than to resort to either one!

Now as far as a self defense situation I believe a good rule is to use as much force as it would take to resolve the situation and nothing over and above.

[Valiant84]

the only input i have on the matter is that if im being beaten by a woman, i will try to stop her with the minimum force necesarry. If i can restrain her then, good, if only a punch to the jaw is what it is going to take and as the only last resort then i will use it. I wouldnt feel happy about it though as i hate women being hit.

[totality]

hmmm...dunno what i'd do...but when my girlfriend hits me, i hit her back. does that count?

btw, i have like 4 KOs and one TKO against her.

[Judderman]

I wonder if the whole aspect of "A Man should not hit a Woman" mearly propagates the idea that a woman is in some way inferior to a man. You would not ask the question "is it ok to hit a man in self defence?" because I'm sure the answer would be a resounding "Yes".

The point is it is fundamentaly wrong to use violence in any form and for any reason against any being. However this is the real world and it doesn't work like that. I'm perfectly sure that a woman is more than capable of doing harm to another being as a man is.

This antiquated idea that women are the weaker sex is unbelievable nonsense and should remain as dead as the era it came from.

Point blank. If you are being attacked, defend yourself. If this means hitting your attacker, do so.

Budo.

[freespirit]

didn't jet li face this problem in the film romeo must die :-)