Any Ninjas???

[NinjaCultMaster]

Any Ninjas here who still train with usisng poisions, and still train in stealth tactics and study black arts?

Just curious, because I know a lot of ninjitsu today is watered down stuff.

[Darzeka]

Go to the thread entitled "Black arts" (i think thats what it was called) where we figured out that it is purely and objective subject and to me there are no black arts.

The black belts in my art were trained in poisons (not sure about now though) and we study basic stealth (walking quietly, breathing control, etc).

The only stuff they have watered down in my art is that which is not useful to most people now, other than that we still train in pretty much everything.

[YODA]

No - there are no Ninjas.

[waya]

If you really want to study the truth of the Ninpo arts, I'd start here

http://www.ninpo.org/

Rob

[Freeform]

If there are any Ninjas I can't find them ;)

[pgm316]

NinjaCultMaster you must be a really good Ninja with a name like that ;)

As for Ninja's on this forum, they come and go, but never seen :D

You won't find any Ninja's in Scotland Freeform, with the wind up there the roof is a perilous place to be! :)

Sorry, I’m just stupidly happy because I’m on holiday next week, yey!

[Spike]

That was a very defiite answer YODA. You didn`t eliminate them all yourself did you?

[wayofthedragon]

I like Ninjas, I think they're cool, though I never seen them but on TV. Do they still exist, I mean, really???

[NinjaCultMaster]

yes there are still ninjas out there, only a few "real" ninjas anyway. I studied ninjitsu for basically all my life. Though there is much more to ninjitsu than meets the eye. I trained with poisons and stealth, and all the codes of the ninja. But it is much more and much deeper than that. Today, you wouldn't see much if any of that being practiced out like that.

anyone ever heard of the Triads...the protectors of eastern culture? I am just wondering... and if this is so, could this be a reason the true unwatered down verson of ninjitsu is being kept a secret?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

If you want the closest thing to the original ninja you want to look at assassins and hitmen.

[TkdWarrior]

dunno man if i be NINJA, I ain't tellin ya MAN...
-TkdWarrior-

[wayofthedragon]

wow!!!! Triads. That would make an excellnt name for a brand of condoms:D

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Triad and Mafia condoms. :) I can see the advertising now.

[Spike]

It`s unlikely the Triads are keeping ninjitsu a secret, the Yakuza perhaps, the triads are chinese.
I also think protectors of eastern culture is maybe a generous term?

[wayofthedragon]

So you mean there really could be real ninjas left. Really!!!! WoW:D Hmmm, no one here is a triad or a yakuza is it:confused:

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Ah what I wouldn't give to be associated with the Eastern versions ofthe mafia, or the western versions for that matter. The money, the cars, the weapons...

[wayofthedragon]

The girls:D

com'on, you know you wanted to say it;)

[STASH]

Ninja were the equivalent of todays hitmen, assasins etc. They're weapons were the most advanced at the time, its very unlikely that theres still "ninjas", running around shooting poison darts at people. Wheres the logic in that? If there were ninjas nowadays then I'm pretty sure they would adapt to the times.
Personally I think all these conspiracy theories are nothing but garbage, just my opinion though.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I could believe ninjas carrying sub machine guns, but not with just katanas.

[wayofthedragon]

so maybe there are still ninjas. Maybe they do carry guns now. Hmmmm. Maybe they are all assasins and snipers now:eek
Oh goodness

[Freeform]

I've said before that the purpose of the 'Ninja' has been taken over by special forces.

But bare in mind they still use garotting wires, crossbows and knives!

Col

[wayofthedragon]

ahhhh... so that's where they all are:D

[Jim]

If you're interested to look at the version of 'todays' Ninja's (ie. Special Forces) you'll find that they all vary on techniques, equipment, etc. according to their role/mission statement.

The SASR, for example, are probably the most like what people would consider today's Ninja's to be like (even the wearing black to terrify the enemy) but their role dictates what they can and can't (read: shouldn't be called on to) do. They work in small numbers behind enemy lines doing recon and stiking small targets, generally causing mischief to distract from the 'front line' attack.

Commando units work in larger numbers and destroy larger targets and specifically do not tend to leave when attacked if their mission hasn't been accomplished.

Both have similar equipment, weapons, etc. but due to their larger team numbers Commando units have access to more powerful portable weapons, such as morters and heavy machine guns.

Selection for these groups are similar in many ways but also different due to the nature of their mission types - SASR are usually selected for their ability to work alone whereas Commando's are selected with teammanship as a priority.

Geez I waffle on a bit - Mmmm Waffles! :D

[STASH]

Well said Jim, the whole "ninja craze" has got to go,

[khafra]

Hey, the SASR sounds fun. Somebody should make an overly dramatic movie about them, with lots of CGI martial arts and explosions.

Or maybe an informative webpage:
Facts about the SASR:
1. The SASR is comprised of mammals
2. The SASR fights ALL the time
3. The purpose of the SASR is to flip out and kill people

[Darzeka]

Here is a post I posted on another thread. Just thought it fit well here.

_______________________________
Here is a definition of Ninja from the Ninjukai Taijutsu home page.

" It is by no means easy to trace the historical background of the Ninjas, for they did not suddenly appear like the knights of feudal England. It was certainly not a revolution that created the Ninja, but rather an evolution. The Ninja came into existence over a period of hundreds of years, as a natural consequence of the political, religious, and cultural state of affairs that existed in Japan during that period of time. The Chinese ideogram of the word Ninja consists of two separate words:


Nin - harmony and balance
Ja - in essence, 'one who practices' "

In other words you need not do any martial arts training to become Ninjas, that was a by product of the original "mountain freaks" study of the body, mind and interaction with the environment.

I thought I would put this in too, to give everyone an idea of the basic history of the arts.

There are two styles of the Ninja Art being taught today: Ninjukai & Ninjutsu. The two styles base their art on different 'golden ages' of Ninja history. Ninjukai looks to the 8th - 12th Century as the period where the Ninjas most truly live up to the meaning of Ninja as practitioners of harmony - the true naturalists. Ninjutsu on the other hand, looks towards the Tokugawa Shogunate (1603 - 1867) as the Ninja Renaissance, or Golden era of the Ninjas



And don't discount the myths about ninjas jumping backwards up into trees and the like because the mind has extraordinary abilities that seem "magical" (well they are but thats in another post).

Most of these feats can be produced through misdirection and trickery. Its VERY easy to dissapear, I do it all the time. Just wait till the person or people you want to dissapear to loko away then move very quietly behind something and poof you've just dissapeared.

As for the black garb - only on night missions. Otherwise they would have worn anything that would have given them a better chance at hiding - its called camoflauge (any aussie's will remeber that carlton mid advert with the weekend soldiers). Black was only used when moving around unseen at nightime and training.

As for the use of modern weapons where I train it isn't included because the training is meant to be practical and training to use a gun is pointless unless you plan to be able to use a gun in a fight, whihch means carrying one or having one at home. We train in the use of anything that will commonly be around in the situation of a fight (sticks of varyin sizes, knives, etc). While we still train with the sword this is mainly an exercise in meditation, focus and energy.

Meditation.
This is a BIG part of what a ninja is all about (probably the entirety of what ninja is). Meditation helps you become calm and you train (ja) to remain in balance and harmony (nin). This will allow your body to flow seemlessly with the current environment (remebering that an environment is EVERYTHING around you, including people trying to kill you).
I recently spent a day at our annual Ninjukai retreat (my first one and wa sthe follow up to our taijutsu "camp" where we belted the crap out of each other all day and pactised letting go of our techniques.) this retreat was centered on doing nothing, breathing and looking about you to see how you really interact with everything.
I spent an hour sitting on a rock out in the middle of the bush, doing nothing. It was awesome. I felt really relaxed after this day and felt it was beneficial to me.
We also went through some breathing exercises with stretching, reaching for universal chi, relaxing the body, unguided meditation and trying to unfocus.
I won't go through these all now, if anyone wants I could explain them in depth in another thread.

I will just leave you with a few quotes Shihan John Ang asked all us ninjas to think upon. ( I think they are from the Tao Te Ching)

"I see everything, yet I see nothing.
I hear everything,yet I hear nothing.
I smell everything, yet I smell nothing."

"I am noone, going nowhere."

"Man is in a state of waking sleep"

[big e]

are you lot all reliving Grand Theft Auto 3?

[Shadow_Fox]

make sense dude

[Brad Ellin]

As far as training with firearms may be impractical, I beg to differ. You never know what you may come up against, so is it not better to have an understanding of a weapon, it's strengths and weaknesses? I make firearm training part of my training. I don't carry one nor do I even own one. BUT, I do have a much stronger understanding of them if the need ever arose to where I had to defend myself against someone using one, or if I ever needed to use one. A true practitioner of ninjutsu, regardless of school or Ryu, would take try to learn about any weapon they could. After all, how many guys do you see walking around with a katana belted on?

[Darzeka]

Yes but you can apply the techniques you use to many weapons that are available and are used. A baseball bat looks very similar to a sword it just isn't curved or sharp, the defense against it would be the same.

A gun on the other hand is unique in that it is a projectile weapon, there are no objects that resemble guns apart from guns. I see the logic in thinking about how to defend against a gun wielding mugger but the use of guns is relatively remote.
As for the learning to use a gun I think that would it be a really extreme situation in which I would need to use a gun offensively - wartime or something - but other wise I would try to avoid it.

Some of the more concealble weapons though are seen all the time. Ever see some kids walking around with a chain conneted to the belt and their wallet? This is almost a perfect simulation of a Manriki Gusari, quite possibly one of the most deadly and versatile weapons you could use.

Would you enlighten use with a few of your gun defense techniques?

[STASH]

Originally posted by Darzeka
Yes but you can apply the techniques you use to many weapons that are available and are used. A baseball bat looks very similar to a sword it just isn't curved or sharp, the defense against it would be the same.

I sort of disagree with you there. A bladed weapon (knife, sword) is much more dangerous and harder to defend against then a blunt weapon like a baseball bat or club.

Its ridiculously easy to get cut and bleed to death, even if theres no power behind the swing. Blunt weapons cannot cut you, there has to be power behind the attack if it is to hurt you. Your best best when facing someone with a blunt weapon is just to rush. Now can you imagine rushing a knife?

[YODA]

Ninjas - Bwaaaaahahahaaaaaaaaaa.......

[Brad Ellin]

Originally posted by Darzeka
Would you enlighten use with a few of your gun defense techniques?

I could try, but my writing skills really suck, and I would probably confuse myself instead of making it clear. A few things that would help, and these may seem obvious to most people:
1. Range? What is the effective range?
2. Revolver or Semi-auto? How many rounds does it hold?
3. How close are they to you? Personal experience has taught me that if they are out of reach, hell, give them the wallet. Nothing in it worth dying for. BUT, and I stress that each encounter is different so don't think I am condoning this, if the person holding a gun on me is within arms length and and I feel that my life or my family's lives are in jeopardy, then I will do my best to dis-arm the thug before someone is hurt of killed. And then it helps to know what kind of weapon you are dealing with. Grasping the cylinder of a revolver before the hammer has coked can prevent the gun from firing. That fleshy part between the thumb and forefinger jammed between the hammer and firing pin can prevent discharging of the weapon. Knowing where the magazine eject button is and how to work the slide can render the weapon into an expensive paper weight. BUT, I can not stress this enough, each situation is different, don't die over a driver's license and a few credit cards. Lucky once, maybe not so lucky next time.

On another note, very good observation about the chain wallets/ key holders or whatever the kids use them for these days. They make a very effective manriki-kusari.

[Spike]

"I sort of disagree with you there. A bladed weapon (knife, sword) is much more dangerous and harder to defend against then a blunt weapon like a baseball bat or club."

In the end though, the disarms are pretty mucgh the same basic techniques, you simply have to be more careful when using them against a live blade.


"Your best best when facing someone with a blunt weapon is just to rush."

I guess you`ve never trained with YODA then?

[STASH]

Originally posted by Spike
In the end though, the disarms are pretty mucgh the same basic techniques, you simply have to be more careful when using them against a live blade.

Yea, I see what youre getting at there. When faced with a blunt weapon I dont hesitate, when faced with a blade...its different. But you're right, in the end when it comes down to it youre just doing the same thing, however I dont use the same technique to actually get to that stage.

[/B][/QUOTE]I guess you`ve never trained with YODA then? [/B][/QUOTE]

Lol, although I think I'd enjoy training with YODA, its not really an option for me. Unless someone wants to pick me up in their personal jet everyday? Anyone?

[Spike]

Well I have trained with YODA, trust me if he has a blunt weapon you don`t want to try and rush him.

[Light Ng]

Ninjas do so exist!

http://www.realultimatepower.net/

Sweet.

[STASH]

That probably true Spike, but theres a difference between fighting someone who has trained with those kinds of weapons and some punk who has no idea how to use one.

If you run into someone who has a knife or club and they actually know how to use it properly you're pretty much screwed unless you have a weapon too.

[YODA]

Originally posted by STASH
.... theres a difference between fighting someone who has trained with those kinds of weapons and some punk who has no idea how to use one.



The club I would agree with. A blade, however, is a different beast. It's very easy for a total novice to kill you with a knife - even by accident.

[pgm316]

Blades are my biggest fear (being so readily available in the uk) at least with a blunt object you have a chance of reducing the range to make it unusable. Theres not any safe range with knifes, apart from a 100M head start :D Probably why there so effective even for a novice.

Blunt objects often hurt more, you might not even feel the cut from a sharp blade.

Good Ninja site Light Ng!

[STASH]

Originally posted by YODA



The club I would agree with. A blade, however, is a different beast. It's very easy for a total novice to kill you with a knife - even by accident.

Yep, I agree.

[Jim_Jude]

Originally posted by Kurohana

I could try, but my writing skills really suck, and I would probably confuse myself instead of making it clear. A few things that would help, and these may seem obvious to most people:
1. Range? What is the effective range?
2. Revolver or Semi-auto? How many rounds does it hold?
3. How close are they to you? Personal experience has taught me that if they are out of reach, hell, give them the wallet. Nothing in it worth dying for. BUT, and I stress that each encounter is different, so don't think I am condoning this, if the person holding a gun on me is within arms length and and I feel that my life or my family's lives are in jeopardy, then I will do my best to disarm the thug before someone is hurt of killed. And then it helps to know what kind of weapon you are dealing with. Grasping the cylinder of a revolver before the hammer has coked can prevent the gun from firing. That fleshy part between the thumb and forefinger jammed between the hammer and firing pin can prevent discharging of the weapon. Knowing where the magazine eject button is and how to work the slide can render the weapon into an expensive paper weight. BUT, I can not stress this enough, each situation is different, don't die over a driver's license and a few credit cards. Lucky once, maybe not so lucky next time.
On another note, very good observation about the chain wallets/ key holders or whatever the kids use them for these days. They make a very effective manriki-kusari.

Kurohana is right on with the gun disarms ;)

Another point that I'd like to make concerning defending against firearms is getting off-line of the path of the barrel. Move the gun one way & your body the other. Also, don't become fixated on wrestling the gun away, because if you're trained in gun retention techniques, it won't always work. Take advantage of the fear your attacker will have of losing the weapon, this will open him up to many attacks that wouldn't normally be available. Also learn how to dismantle weapons in an expedient manner. That "trick" that Jet Li did in Lethal Weapon 4 was nothing new to many people that have handled a Beretta Semi-auto.

At the Bujinkan Hombu with Nagato-shihan, Dick Severence-sensei, & Abi Allen-sensei, we did gun disarms & covered all of these points & more. Nagato-sensei asked me if a semi-auto went off, could the hot casing burn you, I told him I've had many hot casings go down my shirt & burn the hell out of me, so yeah, sure. But better a burn on the hand than a hole in your liver. He laughed & agreed.

Concerning the Kusari - Wallet chain, I saw one Bujinkan practitioner with a carbiner conected to a short chain to another carbiner & to his wallet. Two short clicks & you have a short chain weapon with handy handles. :yeleyes:

Knowing is half the battle, as they say. Ninjutsu is the art of Surviving. You have to know what's out there, ignorance will get you killed.

[Darzeka]

I've considered getting one of those chains and just attaching it to a ball of lead on the other end and leaving my wallet in my pocket but reconsidered after seeing I'd look to my like a try hard sk8er.

Just back to learning the sword and applying the techniques to other random objects.
I was speaking mainly from the defensive point of view with the comparison between the sword and bat. The person will attack in much the same fashion so knowing the basic possible movements and possible ways to evade will help a great deal. Also learning any bladed weapon will just solidify your ideas on other bladed weapons - stay away from the point and the sharp bit.

Skills Ninjas should really learn then - tyrironJutsu, Crobajutsu, basbalbatjutsu, brokenboteljutsu, keychainjutsu.

All these can basically extend off the same parent weapon style (barring keychainjutsu and brokenboteljutsu) of stickjutsu or rather jojutsu - hey don't we already learn that?

[Spike]

"That probably true Spike, but theres a difference between fighting someone who has trained with those kinds of weapons and some punk who has no idea how to use one."

Are you certain when you look at anyone you see, that they are not trained at all, maybe I`m a big coward but I`m not willing to take that risk.

YODA: "A blade, however, is a different beast. It's very easy for a total novice to kill you with a knife - even by accident."

That I would agree with, but I would prefedr to treat everyone I meet as highly trained with whatever weapon they have in their hand, as I said, I may be a coward but I`m a still living coward.

[STASH]

Yep, if you've been around people who train with weapons long enough you'll be able to tell if they know what they're doing or not.

I agree with you on the safety issue. The best thing to do is to run or talk, but we dont always have that option.

[Freeform]

How many of us actually regularly practice weapons defences and honestly how sucessful are they?

I've done alot of weapon disarms from unarmed and I'd rather face a bat than a gun or a knife. Lets be honest with the disarms. You both square off, one guy has a weapon (be it rubber knife or waterpistol) and 'go at it'. How often do you get 'wet' or 'rubbered'?

And remember, the most dangerous weapon was the one you didn't see, if a good knifeman wants you dead the first time your aware of the knife is after he's stuck you.

Just my happy thought for the day!

Col

[STASH]

I think that basically summarizes everything, lol. Good post Freeform.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Something's better than nothing, but yeah, we regularly make the point in class that the defenses are just intended to be better than nothing. I've done countless demonstrations where we demonstrate the dead before you see the knife thing, but of course the majority of cases where you will see the knife will be a relatively new mugger, or someone semi-reluctant to hurt you, with anyone else you'd already be dead. So at least you've got some idea of what to do.

Bats are fun though. As long as you see them. I wouldn't even try to disarm against guns.

[lil'fighter]

hiya ninja's,

ive been studying the secret art for six years, i am studying and practicing the iga ryu style. i have had many tough private lessions on the art of concealment ........so if there are any nijas out there that wanna chat ........just send me an email.

Domo........lil' fighter

sarah xxx

[YODA]

Originally posted by Freeform
How many of us actually regularly practice weapons defences and honestly how sucessful are they?

I've done alot of weapon disarms from unarmed and I'd rather face a bat than a gun or a knife. Lets be honest with the disarms. You both square off, one guy has a weapon (be it rubber knife or waterpistol) and 'go at it'. How often do you get 'wet' or 'rubbered'?

And remember, the most dangerous weapon was the one you didn't see, if a good knifeman wants you dead the first time your aware of the knife is after he's stuck you.

Just my happy thought for the day!

Col


I've "done a bit" with weapons and agree with Freeform 100%.

Disarms are by no means easy - they work a lot better when the guy is nursing a broken limb or wondering why his gonads are in his upper chest :D

[Cougar_v203]

i don't like weapon training that much.

[SpongeBob]

This guy seems to be well into nijitsu

http://www.tewryu.com

found it on my travels

[YODA]

I won't comment on anything other than what I feel I am qualified to - i.e. his stick work.

Check out the "Arco" video - this will speak volumes to anyone with any real stickfighting experience!

[pgm316]

I can't be downloading stuff with my connection Yoda! :(

I take it he's either really good or really bad, and I'm guessing bad?? :D

[YODA]

It's bad.

Really bad.

[dredleviathan]

Yoda didn't you know it was most important to train in your PJ's whilst being fast and showy!

Keeping hold of your sticks is not an issue to worry the Ninja - there probably some secret weapon retention magic they practice or something :p

You yourself should appreciate the power of jedi mind tricks.

[Andy Murray]

You mean holding your stick between your thumb and index finger only is bad?

Damn, back to the drawing board for me!

[pgm316]

I hate the stick demo’s with the slow complex movements that are just pointless and impossible in any real stick fight. In any real stick fight you’ll be lucky to come out unscathed, so forget the suicidal stuff :p

[Cougar_v203]

the way you guys talk about sticks sent a shiver up my spine lol.
anyways i train in my pjs and dress pants :o

[TkdWarrior]

<the way you guys talk about sticks sent a shiver up my spine lol. >
LoL i think ppl here r more polite n easy(xcept when they go against CkDists :D)
-TkdWarrior-

[Cougar_v203]

yep they are gotta agree with you on that but ckdists pfffft! plz I'll make them stain there panties :D.

[SilentNightfall]

Okay, I just wanted to point out two or three things here. Let's start with the first incorrect statement that I saw posted in this thread. I believe it said something along the lines of the ninja being the equivalent of today's assassin and hitmen. This is completely and utterly false. Ninja rarely ever had missions/assignments where their sole purpose was the elimination of a certain target. You are merely going by Hollywood's story if you believe such things. Soke Hatsumi has stated before that such was not the nature of the Ninja.

Secondly, someone said that ninja only wore black for night missions, camouflage any other time. The real truth is that the ninja would never wear black, even at night. It sticks out like a big black blob because it is not a natural color. Instead, earth-tone greens and browns, and light/dark blues would have been worn.

Lastly, I wanted to inquire as to why there seems to be a general snickering anytime the word "ninja" seems to be mentioned, as though such does not exist. Some believe that it is still possible to be considered a ninja, others do not. Either way, if you have the idea that ninja went extinct centuries ago, you are gravely mistaken. Even if no one today can rightfully take the name ninja (though I am of another opinion), the last true living ninja, O'Sensei Takamatsu, died in April of 1972. Not so far away now is it? Truly, it is foolish to think that ninja cannot still exist when the actual definition of a ninja is one who lives in harmony with his surroundings. I believe someone mentioned that no martial arts need to be associated with the person. This is very true, but when martial arts (ninjutsu/taijutsu) are involved, the nature of the techniques follows the same principles of harmony and being in balance. I believe that once you all take a step back and stop thinking that serious ninjutsu practitioners are equivalent to the actors dressed in black PJs from Hollywood cinema, you might be able to better understand the art. Until you do your homework, do not poke fun.

Oh, and as far as Rick Tew and Tew Ryu go, he has formed what is known as "Neo Ninjitsu." It's basically a collection of techniques from other arts thrown together to make Americanized "ninjitsu." None of the techniques are real ninjutsu as Tew has no links to any true lineage. But at least he does not claim to have one like some others do. Bottom line is that there are still schools out there that make money off of the ninja craze by presenting fancy, but ultimately useless kicks and acrobatics that claim to be ninjutsu. Then there are true institutions of ninjutsu such as the Bujinkan that have real claims to the arts of the ninja and who train effectively and in authentic methods. Learn to discern and mock the people that deserve it, if you must mock at all. Have a good one, all.

[JediMasterChris]

True, and I believe they did not wear black in the old days at all. In old plays about ninjas they would wear black to show that they are the bad guy, ninja dressed pretty much like everybody else did but they adopted wearing black because of this...I read this somewhere but I can't assure you that it is a reliable source.:o

[SilentNightfall]

What I think you mean is that in Japanese plays, the stage hands would usually wear black as a signal to the audience that they were not part of the play and should not be seen. When plays were then made involving ninja characters, the actors would dress in black to give the same impression of being "unseen" by the other actors. In true reality, if the ninja ever did need to go on a misson where they would not be dressed in common clothing, they would wear the colors that I stated in my previous post (light blue/dark blue or earth-tone colors like brown, green, etc.). Black, as I said before, stands out like a black blob when it moves against the environment because it is not a natural color. This is why historically, the ninja did not wear such a color when trying to blend in at night. Black isn't a natural color and stands out when a person moves. Hope this helps. Have a good one.

[JediMasterChris]

Yeah exactly.;)

[Cougar_v203]

how bout camo ;)

[SilentNightfall]

Depending on your environment, the "typical" camouflage can work well. Other times not. Again, I believe this would depend solely on your environment. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[kull1268]

in todays modern world,why would we want to learn about poison making,theres just no need for it today.this is not feudal japan. michael ryan

[kull1268]

hi josh,remember me,we trained together with papa-san.i,m the guy from pittston

[SilentNightfall]

If you can give me a description, I'm sure that I can recall exactly who you are, since there are a few Mike's who appear up at Ed's either weekly or just every so often. Then again, there are also other Josh's that come every so often to the dojo, though I'm there at every class. LoL. If you do know me, then you'll remember me as the guy who's about 6'1", has chestnut brown hair, and is still a youngster compared to most of the group up there. Either way, if you've been to Ed's, I'm sure we've trained together. I'm almost positive that you're the Mike I'm thinking of if it was you and I who trained together up in the field when doing sword work. Am I correct?

[kull1268]

that is correct and also we trained at charles danial seminar too,you took some pics for my family

[SilentNightfall]

I thought it was you. How have you been, Mike? I've missed having the opportunity to train with you on Sundays. I still have the fond memory of playing around with the sword in the field and doing "cinematic" dying sequences when either one of us got "sliced" across the stomach, sound effects included. So will you be coming back to Ed's anytime soon? I'd love to have a chance to train with you again. And how did those pictures from the seminar turn out? Hope I wasn't a clumsy cameraman.

[kull1268]

they came out exellent,thank you. yes,i,m coming back to ed,s next sunday,i had to take a couple months off.see you next week.have a great holiday.

[SilentNightfall]

Great! I'll be looking forward to seeing you there. We've been playing with all the various things Ed and the group brought back from Japan for the past few weeks and so we're most likely continuing on with that. Really fun stuff. Glad to hear that the pictures came out well also. See you in another week, Mike. Take care for now.

[Cougar_v203]

sorry for breaking this happy little reunion but I want to ask something then you can go back.

ok I live in maryland and i live in neighborhood thats surrounded by lots of trees and I was wondering what kind of outfit I should wear? Dark Blue? Camo? or what would you recommend?

[pgm316]

Suburban USA, best disguise would be jeans and t shirt ;)

[SilentNightfall]

Lots of tress and such? Well, are you talking daytime or nighttime? If it's at night, dark blue as well as all the earth-tone colors would work. If it is daytime, I would go with the earth-tone greens, browns, etc., provided you are near trees and foliage at the time. You can't exactly lay out on the sidewalk wearing these colors and not expect to be seen. LoL. But in all honesty, are there fields surrounding these trees? Can you use grass to blend in? Give us a better description and it might be easier to give you an idea on what to use.

[ichiro katsumor]

alright let me tell you charcoal black is the best color for stealth in an area where you may go from urban to woodland often it is my fav color for stealth night work.hope that helped

[SilentNightfall]

Careful there, Nathan. Remember, anything even remotely resembling black at night is awful for stealthing techniques if people are looking your way when you move. I think I've posted this a million times on various forums, but here it is again. Black stands out like a big blob against any background at night. Why? Because it is not a natural color. I believe I also stated which colors are appropriate above somewhere.

[Freeform]

Surely our modern armed forces use the most suitable colours for camoflauge purposes, why don't you wear army combats.

[SilentNightfall]

Camouflage is a wonderful idea so long as you have some that is colored for your specific environment. One that is used to blend into dark areas might be hard to come by, while one used to blend into wooded areas would be quite easy to find.

[Brad Ellin]

And "urban" camouflage is useless in the 'hood. After all, who will stand out more, the guy in "urban cammies" or the guy in sweats or a jeans and shirt? Blending in to your enviroment is much more than picking the right cammies. It's the right clothing and attitude.

[SilentNightfall]

That's exactly right. Depending on whether or not you think people will catch a glimpse of you, you should take into consideration what your "stealthing" garb looks like. While wearing camouflage pants is a popular trend nowadays, wearing the whole nine yards would be a bit conspicuous. Again, it would be great for natural terrains, but in an urban environment, go with color-based "normal" attire.

[ichiro katsumor]

i hold to my beloved charcoal hoody!!! i got within five feet of my friend in a feild before he could see me and figured out where the steps were coming from and he said it was like i apeared from nowhere

[Freeform]

Was he asleep by any chance, or watching something else.

[Brad Ellin]

Big difference between getting within 5 feet of a friend and not being seen at all. What you are wearing has nothing to do with that. My nickname at work is "sensei", because I am constantly walking up to people and standing behind them or next to them for 3-5 minutes before they notice me. I walk quietly, naturally. As for camouflage, at night, I stick to what Silent and I have been saying all along. If it's a wooded area, and you are in the woods, wear the colors native to that area. If it's a bit more urban and you're "skulking around" wear dark blues mixed with greys, that will simulate the natural dark and shadows much better than black will. When Hatsumi visited the USA the first time, he demonstrated this to us in a large field. He and the shihans disappeared in front of 150 people. He then had us try it, and since most of us were wearing mostly black (too many Sho Kasugi movies) we did not blend in very well. We stuck out like blobs of oil on water.
If you just want to blend in and not be noticed, wear whatever the rest of the neighborhood is wearing. Don't be flashy, don't stand out.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[Cougar_v203]

meh i'll just wear my pjs the next time :D

[Sonshu]

The silent assassins, there is a lot of old text and reports that I read when fully training in Ninjitsu that suppose the use of tools for espionage and also waiting in a place for days or longer rather than hours to gain the spying intel.

However for assassination the texts read, a dignatorys or emmissary is walking in the gardens with his latest wife. He has 4 samurai guards with him.

3 ninja in the intimidating garb (it was in that day) jump out and and throw flash powers and shurikens and all that stuff about.

The samurai attack the ninja and whilst the ninja dont fight much they just keep them distracted enough with flash powder and large swinging weapons, Kasari etc.

In the meantime the dignatory and his geisha retreat from the danger.

As the samurai return they then see the guard is dead and noone is about. He is killed by a bo shuriken (straight dart type like a metal Pencil) It must have come from one of the ninja.

In truth the assassin was the geisha who was by his side for months, the black garb ninja were the distraction.

SONSHU

[SilentNightfall]

I think we need to keep in mind that such instances were very few and far between as ninja rarely ever had to resort to assassination. The tasks a ninja had would be reconnaissance, strategic military planning, guerilla warfare soldiers, etc. But yes, if they had to resort to assassination, things such as the above planted spy/assassin could have been used and gone on for months before the actual killing. Just try to stray from the idea that ninja were ruthless assassins. They did not like killing just as much as most people would loathe having to assassinate someone nowadays.

[Sonshu]

I know of the mis conceptions and what you have put is right - I was merely trying to give a daylight reason for the infamous black garb.

It is not the ninja you would have seen who was the threat. The spying, recon and the softer skills were the mainstay of the ninja.

Just giving more info to people.

The best weapons the ninja had was not following the japanese honour system with such blind rigidity.

SONSHU

[ichiro katsumor]

when i did what i mentioned earlier i was much younger and had not begun to study such things. i am now (not to brag)very good at stealth an any situation ,let me refraze that most situations. im not a shadow yet ,but i do tend to walk softly and be silent without meaning to. i do sometimes like to stand about people without their knowledge of it for a long time ,and have stayed in a room with someone for hours before they knew i was there. i do make it a habit to train in stealth always and in all situations and i am very proud of the skill i have earned and developed (long post for me but i felt my skill was being attacked sorry if you didnt mean it like that)

[Brad Ellin]

No, wasn't attacking your skills, just pointing out the difference between stealth and sneaking up on you buds. No offense meant.
I have noticed that an important part of stealth, is the thought process that goes with it. If you think about who or what you are sneaking up on, they can and usually will "feel" you before you get there. The trick is to not think about them, but to just do. I had posted some exercises in an earlier post about how to sharpen this ability, if anyone is interested I can repost them.

[SilentNightfall]

Brad, I'd love for you to repost them so that I can compare them with my knowledge on the subject. I know exactly what you are talking about as we have done plenty of "feeling the intent" exercises and sensing when someone is focusing on you with the intention of harming. By the way, I will finally have the opportunity to tell Papa-san you said "hi" tomorrow. He was away at a seminar in Texas last week, but I will be sure to tell him tomorrow for you.

[Brad Ellin]

Okay, here goes. Most of these exercises need a partner or 3. If you can get more people together, it'll be more fun (and frankly, if it ain't fun, why bother?)
1) Partner exercise. You sit on ground. Eyes closed or blindfolded. partner walks quietly around you stopping at various times and places ( think of you as center of compass, uke stops at the 8 points) When uke stops, or you think/feel they have, you point in the direction you think they are.
Variation 1. When uke stops, they reach out to touch you. When you feel the touch, point at them. Doesn't matter if they are just starting to reach or actually touch you, point when YOU feel it.
Variation 2. When uke stops, they think/emote that they are going to STRIKE/HIT/SMASH you very suddenly and violently. When you feel that, point.
Variation 3. When uke stops, they reach out to touch you while thinking strongly about striking you (combing 1 and 2 above). Instead of pointing, you move out of the way.

2) Partner exercise. This one is fun! You stand in shizen no kamae (natural posture). Wear a blindfold. Uke walks around you, silently and at any time/point grabs you. This is not a sudden, wrenching grab. Just a casual grab. Can be sleeve, wrist, arm, belt, whatever. You do a CONTROLLED takedown (ura gyakku, omote gyakku, hon gyakku, etc). Control is the key here. Your goal is not to hurt, but rather feel your uke's body position in relation to your's.
Variation 1. Once you have the hang of the above, try this. Start of same as above. Instead of walking and grabbing, uke will punch you. Punch is slow and walked in. Slow and walked in. Again, say it with me out loud, SLOW AND WALKED IN. Your job, move. That's all. When you feel the punch, move out of the way. Move when the punch starts or when you feel it touch you, or anywhere in between, but move. In this variation it is okay for your uke to give you some kind of signal he is about to strike. But only at the beginning of the exercise. After you have done it for a week or two, then stop giving signals.

3) Group exercise 1. 3 or more people, the more the better. One person is "it". Everyone else forms a circle around "it" facing in. "It" closes eyes (I found a blind fold works better, no cheating and the psychological advantage of not having to concentrate on keeping eyes closed while concentrating on exercise. Your eyes will open, guaranteed). The others take turns walking in and trying to touch "it". "It" points at person coming in, if you get caught you become "it".
Variation 1. Same set up, except circle faces out. "It" tries to sneak up on people in circle. If you get tapped on shoulder, you become "it". If you turn around to catch "it", and they are not sneaking up on you, that's right, in the middle you go. If you do catch them, you remain in circle. This helps you from making to many false ID's. You have to pay more attention to what you feel/hear.

All these exercises are best practiced at night.

[JediMasterChris]

This question is kind of dumb but why do you guys need to be stealthy? Are you robbers? Or is this part of ninjitsu?:confused:

[Brad Ellin]

Chris, there are many reasons for training in stealth. Foregoing the obvious ones of sneaking around, I'll look a bit at the spiritual/emotional aspects of training for it.

I train for the sake of training. The concentration that it takes to be able to move silently, yet swiftly (or slowly, depending on your need) is an exercise in meditation for me. A sort of moving meditation if you will. It's also an exercise in physics. By placing my foot down in the water or tree leaves this way, I create a disturbance, this way doesn't. By slowing down in the initial stages of training, walking slowly and deliberately, you learn to control you balance. Lower your weight on one leg while crossing your legs, now, take a high step with the trailing leg (hicho no kamae), move into shizen no kamae or ichimonji no kamae. Repeat. At any time, if I were to call out "Stop", you should stop and be able to remain in balance. It's not that easy. I still have problems with it. But, training it is a step towards the path of enlightment.
Stealth training also helps you refine or develope that ever elusive 6th sense(it does exist, in a western way of thinking, it can be equated to Soke's Godan test) It helps to refine and heighten your other senses. All people are born with this ability, but as we get older, less informed people (our parents, teachers, siblings, strangers on the train) tell us it does not exist. You have felt it before, that tingling on the back of your neck and the feeling someone was watching you. They were. Stealth and "feeling intent" training will help you regain these skills or senses, if you will.
People that train in stealth movement for personal gain, or with the intent to harm or harass others are not the type of people we want in this art. They generally don't last long, their own "intent" tends to drive them away. It gets too esoteric or "mystical" for them.

Hope this helps.

[JediMasterChris]

Good post, thanks for informing me.

[Cougar_v203]

This is what I think what stealth is:
Stealth in my word is good for spying and easedropping on people and listening to conversation that will be of Vital importance.

Aren't ninjas used as Recon?

[Brad Ellin]

If that's what you're job/mission is. But face it, very few (if any) of us studying ninjutsu these days will be called upon to do that. If you're doing that because that is what you want to do, see my earlier post.

[ichiro katsumor]

and couger you must concider even the slightest possibility that it may become necessary to use stealth to protect yourself or your loved ones which is ovcourse the or should be ones motivation

[Willbeanijnja]

Does anyone in here know for a fact if ninjas still exist because I would love to train under one.

[JediMasterChris]

:Angel:

Yes I am a ninja. :D :D :D

[xplasma]

Willbeaninja,

If you are in Denver (as your location saids). There are "real ninjas" or more accurate people who train in true ninpo/ninjutsu in Littleton only 20 mins from you.

http://www.coloradoninpo.com/

[xplasma]

this is a genbukan ninpo dojo.

*Waiting for the Bujinkan Ninpo people to come and complain about Tanemura and Genbukan*

[SilentNightfall]

For once, I'll just recommend that you do your research on both the Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan and see which one is for you, Willbeanijnja. I've already posted my problems with the Genbukan on this forum, and so I'm not going to reiterate a thousand times why I'm opposed to them. I do, however, still believe that both the Genbukan and Jinenkan are still not evolving ninjutsu properly as such was the job handed down to Hatsumi-sensei specifically and both Manaka and Tanemura were students of Soke Hatsumi and are now self-proclaimed grandmasters. Just something to consider, as I've never pointed this fact out before here on this forum.

[Sonshu]

Does not mean they are not better?

I only did BBD and Bujinkan but I think there is merit to Tanemura style as people I know who have done both prefered his.

I have not checked it out.

[SilentNightfall]

There are a lot of people who do prefer the Genbukan to the Bujinkan. There are also many people who have come back to the Bujinkan after several years with the Genbukan. The Genbukan, by nature, is much more aggressive as many people like to describe it. Now that is some people's preference. They like the rough and in-your-face kind of attitude to their training. I, however, take aggression as a bad thing. Also, in the Bujinkan, we are more encouraged to be creative with our techniques because a conflict will never be able to be solved with the exact same movement you did in a drill. Some people don't like this and prefer the cookie cutter techniques and such. That's all well and fine. Fact still remains that Tanemura practices the way Hatsumi-sensei used to train and hatsumi-sensei now trains in a different manner. Hatsumi-sensei is, of course, justified in the way he now trains because he was entrusted to advance Ninjutsu as it has always been done over the years. Ninjutsu is an ever-evolving art. Tanemura simply has decided to stick to training in one particular phase of Ninjutsu for his Genbukan organization. Hatsumi-sensei has moved beyond that and now trains in a different manner. I choose to stay in the Bujinkan because Tanemura will still always be Hatsumi-sensei's junior and he has never truly trained with Takamatsu-sensei long enough to be qualified to teach the Takamatsuden arts.

[Cougar_v203]

i prefer bujinkan. why? because it was the first one i've been introduced to.

[Brad Ellin]

I can't add much to Josh's post other than this.. look at the attitude and demeanor of people in the Bujinkan versus the other X-kans. Not just one person, but overall.. are they over aggressive? Polite? Warm and loving? Curt? Aloof? Inviting? Look at the overall picture and you'll see why people stay with a certain school or leave it.
Hatsumi is Soke, why? Because Takamatsu said so. He was the one who passed the densho on to Hatsumi. Hatsumi, not Tanemura or anyone else. Tanemura wasn't happy with this and left. Okay. His right. To claim himself as Grandmaster, well, that isn't cool, but it doesn't hurt me or affect me so I leave it alone. Genbukan is more traditional? That is another way of saying it doesn't grow/progress. The Bujinkan does. Hatsumi is a unique and rare individual. Like him or hate, he is the real deal.

Enough rambling. I'm going to bed, I have a long day tomorrow and on Friday I'm going to see Hatsumi. So, nenene ne ne nah!!

[SilentNightfall]

Many people may not know this, but Tanemura only ever trained with Takamatsu-sensei for a few hours of one day when Hatsumi-sensei took Tanemura to train with his teacher. As far as why Tanemura left, I really must go and look up that lil' story so I can post the correct retelling herein. I know there was an argument and it was because of some comment Tanemura made while at a funeral for a mutual relative as both Hatsumi-sensei and Tanemura are related. I will not attempt to retell anything else from memory, but rather, I will go look on a forum like Kutaki and find a discussion on such.

[Cougar_v203]

stop teasing kurohana your going to make us all cry :(

[SilentNightfall]

Especially me. LoL. I was looking forward to it for months and then my car went and fell apart. Not literally, but enough to cost me around the same amount it costs for one day of training at the Tai Kai. Ah well... In two years I'll be in Japan for a year getting all of my Ninjutsu classes for free (well, not free, but I won't be paying for them), so I'm not too bummed. I just really wanted to come face to face with a lot of good friends I haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting in person.

[ninja pimp]

hmmm... I train in ninutsu i know how to obtain poision but am not trained in it that wold be stupid. and i do know ways to assassinate people but that doesnt mean im evil or in the black arts,not a direct answer but somthin to think about yours truly, Ninja Pimp ; )

[Kanja]

I am training on my stealth tactics..i wanna master it .