running advice for fighting

[LeighB]

i need some advice on running , i want to do some running to help me lose some fat but im worried that i may lose power as running has shown to slowly turn your muscles from fast twitch to slow twitch , anyone kno how i could deal with this problem while still being able to do runnin?

[Mitch]

Don't do long runs, so anything under 2-3 miles is OK I believe? You could do interval sprints, hill running, tabatta or fartlek and not risk any problems I would imagine.

Mitch

[Master Betty]

Don't do long runs, so anything under 2-3 miles is OK I believe? You could do interval sprints, hill running, tabatta or fartlek and not risk any problems I would imagine.

Mitch


Running is fine as lon gas you're complimenting it with other training or sprint running. Sprints are all fast twitch. Typically speaking, most fights from my gym will run every 2nd day doing around 4 - 5 miles at a ridiculously slow pace just to get the lungs working and burn some energy. Before training sessions they'll go and do sprints as well as on the weekend one day. full rest at least one day.

[Mitch]

Running is fine as lon gas you're complimenting it with other training or sprint running. Sprints are all fast twitch. Typically speaking, most fights from my gym will run every 2nd day doing around 4 - 5 miles at a ridiculously slow pace just to get the lungs working and burn some energy. Before training sessions they'll go and do sprints as well as on the weekend one day. full rest at least one day.

Exactly, focus on sprints and mixed, not distance. 4-5 miles sounds fine to me, I have heard as low as 2-3 quoted for best results.

Maybe that's why MT guys kick so slow? ;)

Personally I think the variety of pace makes a big difference to developing fitness, something about cycling your heart rate up and down makes for big improvements and quickly. So if I were you Leigh I reckon that's the thing to go for.

Tabata is one idea, google it and see. Fartlek is another, do the same. For interval runs I use 30 second sprints with anything from 1 minute to 2 minute recovery, repeat for as long as feels OK. A Gymboss timer helps this, saves looking at a stop watch as you run.

If you're going to do any running then get some decent running shoes and do it on soft surfaces if you can.

Hope that helps,

Mitch

[Master Betty]

Exactly, focus on sprints and mixed, not distance. 4-5 miles sounds fine to me, I have heard as low as 2-3 quoted for best results.

Maybe that's why MT guys kick so slow? ;)

Personally I think the variety of pace makes a big difference to developing fitness, something about cycling your heart rate up and down makes for big improvements and quickly. So if I were you Leigh I reckon that's the thing to go for.

Tabata is one idea, google it and see. Fartlek is another, do the same. For interval runs I use 30 second sprints with anything from 1 minute to 2 minute recovery, repeat for as long as feels OK. A Gymboss timer helps this, saves looking at a stop watch as you run.

If you're going to do any running then get some decent running shoes and do it on soft surfaces if you can.

Hope that helps,

Mitch

Tell that to buakaw lol.

Another good thing to do wihch is nice and simple is to find a football field. walk along the short side, jog up the long side an dsprint across the diagonal. Do that continously a few times and you'll see how hard it eventually gets.

[Mitch]

Tell that to buakaw lol.

Another good thing to do wihch is nice and simple is to find a football field. walk along the short side, jog up the long side an dsprint across the diagonal. Do that continously a few times and you'll see how hard it eventually gets.

Nice simple drill.

There was a similar drill on T Nation using a 400 meter running track if you have access to one. Search on there if you have access to one LeighB.

Mitch

[Doublejab]

Run faster for shorter.

Plus what they said :-)

[Willsy]

Don't do long runs, so anything under 2-3 miles is OK I believe? You could do interval sprints, hill running, tabatta or fartlek and not risk any problems I would imagine.

Mitch

What he said, although I'd add in to find a nice long staircase somewhere outside and sprint up that, we used to have one about 200m long with 126 steps (we ran them a lot) and in between sets of steps it was uphill. Helps get strong legs too!

[icefield]

i need some advice on running , i want to do some running to help me lose some fat but im worried that i may lose power as running has shown to slowly turn your muscles from fast twitch to slow twitch , anyone kno how i could deal with this problem while still being able to do runnin?


really what studies are you thinking about please link to them. As a lot of people talk about this but then refer to people running marathon distances.


fact is fighters have been doing road work (several miles) for decades with no adverse effects. pro fighter lee remedios runs 7 to 10 miles twice a week and still puts in pwerlifting numbers in the gym and is explosive as anything. Fedor and his brother put in miles and miles each week, karelin used to run 10km in snow before training...none of them lack explosiveness. the list goes on and on.

as already stated if you are doing explosive work as well as endurance work you will be fine, but doing explosive stuff when overweight is just asking for injuries, lose the weight before doing sprints .jumps etc

[axelb]

I've never heard of fast twitch fibre turning to slow twitch. Plenty of fighters get in roadwork.

how often and how far do you run at the moment LeighB?

really what studies are you thinking about please link to them. As a lot of people talk about this but then refer to people running marathon distances.


fact is fighters have been doing road work (several miles) for decades with no adverse effects. pro fighter lee remedios runs 7 to 10 miles twice a week and still puts in pwerlifting numbers in the gym and is explosive as anything. Fedor and his brother put in miles and miles each week, karelin used to run 10km in snow before training...none of them lack explosiveness. the list goes on and on.

as already stated if you are doing explosive work as well as endurance work you will be fine, but doing explosive stuff when overweight is just asking for injuries, lose the weight before doing sprints .jumps etc

[slipthejab]

There are a lot of different studies out there... and not all of them give a conclusive answer one way or the other... at least not as black and white as we'd like them to be.

However... it's generally believed that there is something of a genetic predisposition to either slow- or fast-twitch muscle fiber. So given that you can train specifically to maximize a particular aspect of fight performance.

How hard you run, how fast you run and how you apply force to your limbs and overall body all can affect performance by determining which fiber type gets recruited. Maximizing your anaerobic capacity and biomechanical efficiency while training yet not forgetting your areobic capacity means you’ll be flexing the right type of fiber during your fights.

Boxing, Muay Thai and kickboxing are roughly a 70/30 split... anaerobic to aerobic capacity type sports. So it makes sense to focus on your wind sprints, hill runs, HIIT or Tabata's and plyometrics to increase your anaerobic capacity. You still however need some aerobic capacity as well. So it's not going to hurt to get in longer runs as well at periodic intervals.

If you're going to start to learn more about how to train like this and what's actually going on... a good place to start is begin to understand the SAID principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAID_principle).


SAID Principle & Aerobic/Anaerobic Training
ISSN: 1558-6448
Submitted by: Dr. Ric Esposito, Chair of Sports Medicine, USSA

There are many basic principles of physical training an athlete must utilize for optimal results within their training program. The SAID Principle, the principle of specific adaptations to imposed demands is the foundation for sport specific training. Specific adaptations are known to take place in the human body in response to specific types of stimuli. The SAID Principle is the bases for physiological changes due to the imposed demands of the specific training stimuli.

An athlete must design a training program in order to meet the needs of their specific sport. Specific adaptations observed in athletes are directly related to the quality and specificity of the aerobic & anaerobic stimulus within their training programs. Optimal adaptations reflect careful planning, implementing and performance of conditioning and strength programs. Other factors like the athletes’ age, sex, nutrition, motivation and prior fitness level prior to training can also have an impact on training adaptations.

Below is a list of specific adaptations that are acquired due to the imposed demands of aerobic & anaerobic training. Athletes should keep these in mind when creating a sports specific training program.

Performance

* Muscle endurance: Increases during anaerobic (high power output) and increases during aerobic (low power output).
* Muscle strength: No change during aerobic and increases during anaerobic.
* Vertical jump: No change during aerobic and increases during anaerobic.
* Aerobic power: Increases during aerobic and no change or slight increase during anaerobic.
* Sprint speed: No change or improvement slightly during aerobic and increases during anaerobic.
* Anaerobic power: No change during aerobic and increases during anaerobic.

Body Composition

* Fat free mass: No change during aerobic and increases during anaerobic.
* Percent body fat: Decreases during aerobic and anaerobic.

Muscle Fiber

* Capillary density: No change or decreases during anaerobic and increases during aerobic.
* Fiber size: Increases during anaerobic and no change or increases slightly during aerobic.
* Fast heavy chain myosin: Increases during anaerobic and no change or decreases during aerobic.
* Type II muscle fiber subtype conversion: Almost all convert to type II during anaerobic and majority convert to type II during aerobic.
* Mitochondrial density: Decreases during anaerobic and increases during aerobic.

Bone & Connective Tissue

* Bone density: No change or increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Collagen content: Varies during aerobic and may increase during anaerobic.
* Ligament strength: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Tendon strength: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.

Metabolic Energy Stores

* Stored Creatine Phosphate: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Stored ATP: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Stored Triglycerides: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Stored Glycogen: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.

Enzyme Activity

* Myokinase: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Creatine phosphokinase: Increases during both aerobic and anaerobic.
* Lactate dehydrogenase: Varies during aerobic and no change or varies during anaerobic.
* Phosphofructokinase: Varies during aerobic and no change or varies during anaerobic.

References
Baechle, T.R. & Earle, R.W. (2000). Editors, 2 nd Ed. Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. NSCA-National Strength & Conditioning Association. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. Foran, B. (2001). Editor. High-Performance Sports Conditioning. Modern Training for Ultimate Athletic Development. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics.
Ward, R. & Ward, P. (1991). Encyclopedia of Weight Training. Understanding the Scientific, Theoretical and Practical Basis of Weight Training. Laguna Hills, CA: QPT Publications.

[Master Betty]

good post from slip. I know that the gyms in thailand our fighters usually visit all do around 10 - 15km each day at a ridiculously slow pace. Aint stopped the thais being the best strikers in the world.

[icefield]

Logic dictates that a sport that can last up to 15-20 minutes including rest between rounds, or in the case of boxing up to 30 minutes, is one of largely aerobic in nature with short burst on alatic anaerobic output.

The best way to see this is put a heart rate monitor on two guys sparring and see what their HR reaches during rounds and what the average is overall, you really need to know your anaerobic threshold (the point where you stop using oxygen and go from aerobic to anaerobic) for most athletes this will be between 165 and 175bpm, if your average HR does not go above this during 5 x 3 minute rounds then it’s safe to say your sport is aerobic in nature.

The aerobic system also governs recovery and the more in shape you are aerobically the less you have to tap into the anaerobic system training it has the least impact on your body, meaning it does not wear you down as much as hard sprints etc. When you consider that you get alot of anaerobic training from class, pad work, bag work etc it makes sense to do your other conditioning in a way that both helps you recover and assists you in your fighting rather than breaking down your body

[Gary]

One extra point I would like to add is that there is a tendency to separate energy systems for discussions like this on exercise selection. While certain exercises do enhance areas better than others, there is almost always a crossover. The human body is way past complex and pretty much any exercise will improve other energy systems. If I walk for half an hour extra every day it will have a slight affect on my sprinting ability, as different systems become more efficient, not necessarily the energy systems directly but other components of the process will, for example my lungs may become more efficient at oxygen uptake or my blood may carry a higher concentration of hemoglobin.

As an example, I'm not a fan of long cardio sessions, actually I'm not a fan of any cardio sessions at all really. A few years back when I was completely out of shape I attempted to take up jogging to burn off some of the extra weight. I made it to the end of the street before it turned into a walk. After a couple of weeks of repeat performances I decided to focus on weight training (muscle burns fat and all that :bang:). After about a year of 5x5 with heavy lifts and lots of rest between sets I was on my way home when I found out I had missed the last bus back. It was about 4 miles to home and since I was still in my gym gear I figured a little cardio wouldn't hurt, I was able to complete it without having to walk at any point. Between these two examples my cardio training was non existent. I did no running, martial arts or anything that could be called cardio. Even walking was limited to where it was necessary, if anything I walk less now than I did then. The anaerobic lifting I had been doing had enough carry over to mean the difference between running 200m and running 4 miles.

[icefield]

One extra point I would like to add is that there is a tendency to separate energy systems for discussions like this on exercise selection. While certain exercises do enhance areas better than others, there is almost always a crossover. The human body is way past complex and pretty much any exercise will improve other energy systems. If I walk for half an hour extra every day it will have a slight affect on my sprinting ability, as different systems become more efficient, not necessarily the energy systems directly but other components of the while process will, for example my lungs may become more efficient at oxygen uptake or my blood may carry a higher concentration of hemoglobin.

As an example, I'm not a fan of long cardio sessions, actually I'm not a fan of any cardio sessions at all really. A few years back when I was completely out of shape I attempted to take up jogging to burn off some of the extra weight. I made it to the end of the street before it turned into a walk. After a couple of weeks of repeat performances I decided to focus on weight training (muscle burns fat and all that :bang:). After about a year of 5x5 with heavy lifts and lots of rest between sets I was on my way home when I found out I had missed the last bus back. It was about 4 miles to home and since I was still in my gym gear I figured a little cardio wouldn't hurt, I was able to complete it without having to walk at any point. Between these two examples my cardio training was non existent. I did no running, martial arts or anything that could be called cardio. Even walking was limited to where it was necessary, if anything I walk less now than I did then. The anaerobic lifting I had been doing had enough carry over to mean the difference between running 200m and running 4 miles.

ANy training will get you in shape, an unfit person will get in shape just by walking or doing weights

But you are right energy systems do work together its not just one or the other but at anyone time there is a dominate system and that is usually the aerobic system, a heavy weight session is anearobic (your HR can reach well into the 170s and higher) the rest between will bring it down to the 120bpm or lower if you are in shape, this will work the aerobic system as well infact your average HR for the period training will be well within the aerobic range

Long cardio sessions can be anything that keeps your HR within the set range you are working: you can mix jogging, machines, short explosive work, med ball throws, shadow boxing, shadow wrestling even dynamic stretching, LSD running is not the only way to work cardio, it is just probably one of the best ways to keep your HR constant and in the range you need to make the developments you are looking for

[TaeAno]

I'm thinking about the same thing! I'm actually joining track this year for school