streching ever day

[JamieW]

i have been streching everyday for afew weeks now, to get my kicks higher and my muscle (especially the top of my legs) are aching when i go to strech. is it a good idea for me to stop streching for afew days and let my muscle come back together???

also does anyone no of any products i can apply to my muscles to help them heal after streching quicker

thanksss

[Moi]

How are you stretching?

Read this http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85373

[JamieW]

the main one i do is the side spilts but i do afew relaxed streches ( put my bum up against the wall am spread my legs apart. and i do the same strech with a machine i have got. there the main streches that are hurting.

[Moi]

the main one i do is the side spilts but i do afew relaxed streches ( put my bum up against the wall am spread my legs apart. and i do the same strech with a machine i have got. there the main streches that are hurting.

You doing that after warming up?

[JamieW]

i do long streching sessions after training. but when at home i just go straight in for the streching.

[Mitch]

Read the stretching thread Moi linked to from beginning to end. It will tell you everything you need to know :D

Also search for Bill Wallace on youtube and look for his stretching videos. You can watch his fight videos whilst stretching :D

Mitch

[Master Betty]

I was a scottish champion gymnast. Proper stretching should hurt mate. It's a lot tougher than people think it's gonna be. I mean, yoga aint easy, but it's virtually all core muscle stength based around stretches of various kinds and it always hurts.

[Llamageddon]

I was a scottish champion gymnast. Proper stretching should hurt mate. It's a lot tougher than people think it's gonna be. I mean, yoga aint easy, but it's virtually all core muscle stength based around stretches of various kinds and it always hurts.

Hmmm, it should 'hurt' but it shouldn't HURT. Pain is always a sign from your body to watch yourself. There's a difference between discomfort and pain.

[Master Betty]

Hmmm, it should 'hurt' but it shouldn't HURT. Pain is always a sign from your body to watch yourself. There's a difference between discomfort and pain.

It should hurt as in real pain - the difference is what kind of pain it is and what you do once you feel that pain. If it's a sharp pain, a pulsing pain or quite simply, feels like you're tearing something then don't be a fool - rest it a week or two, have a good proper warm up then try it again. But if it's like the OP said, an ahce, then that should be fine as long as you don't tryo to push it past that point. You should take it to the point where it begins to ache then hold it completely steady - and above all else, RELAX. Don't ever tense or struggle when you're trying to stretch as this could contribute to the pain as well.

[holyheadjch]

It's important to learn how to recognise 'good' pain (the "I'm working hard" pain) from 'bad' pain (the "Oh my God, what did I just do?" pain). When people talk about 'no pain, no gain', what they really mean is 'no good pain, no gain'.

[Matias]

i do long streching sessions after training. but when at home i just go straight in for the streching.


Sry to nitpick, but its a generally accepted convention to warm up before you stretch. This decreases the chance of pulling something. Particularly with the splits, be patient & careful.

[Mitch]

Sry to nitpick, but its a generally accepted convention to warm up before you stretch. This decreases the chance of pulling something. Particularly with the splits, be patient & careful.

Did you read Van Zandt's stretching thread linked to earlier in this thread?

Mitch

[Matias]

Sry no I didn't. I am lazy at times :(

[Mitch]

Sry no I didn't. I am lazy at times :(

So again, you're posting with little actual knowledge against a detailed thread with carefully researched advice by a guy whose book will be published soon, and you can't be bothered checking first?

Mitch

[Matias]

Yes, ik. Sry :bang:

But where do I find this thread?



EDIT: Oh woops, found it. I may have been somewhat stupid not too long ago, Mitch, but missing that was an honest mistake xD

[Moi]

So again, you're posting with little actual knowledge against a detailed thread with carefully researched advice by a guy whose book will be published soon, and you can't be bothered checking first?

Mitch

You can lead a horse to water but apparently the RSPCA gets annoyed when you try and drown them??

(my daughters going to kill me for that)

[Van Zandt]

Flexibility is increased - and kept - most effectively by building strength in extreme ranges of motion. Like any other strength training, take a day off (or two) between applications. Your body gets stronger (and more flexible) in the rest periods that follow training, not during training itself.

[evojm72]

How important is it to stretch after training? Last night I skipped out after training without doing any (had to get home to go out for dinner!) and I'm not aching or anything this morning

[Van Zandt]

Recent studies have shown that relaxed stretching - the traditional poses held after a workout to increase flexibility/reduce soreness the next day - can do more harm than good. Isometrics at the end of your strength training workouts is all you really need as far as stretching goes.

[Master Betty]

How important is it to stretch after training? Last night I skipped out after training without doing any (had to get home to go out for dinner!) and I'm not aching or anything this morning

Thats because by skipping you were doing whats commonly knows as a warm-DOWN. In effect, the reverse principle of the warm up. The kind of stretching that van zandt is talking about is a good healthy compliment to this.

[Patrick Smith]

Recent studies have shown that relaxed stretching - the traditional poses held after a workout to increase flexibility/reduce soreness the next day - can do more harm than good. Isometrics at the end of your strength training workouts is all you really need as far as stretching goes.

I agree as far as flexibility is concerned, but I don't think you can use isometrics for everything. Would you say that there are times when relax stretches are necessary?

[Van Zandt]

I say no. Other coaches say yes. Like any form of athletic training, it's personal preference really. I offer one way of doing it, which has proven successful for me and my clients alike. If you try relaxed stretches, and you feel there is a benefit, then crack on and do them. Same with dynamic stretches.

Flexibility, strength, cardio... they're all similar in that there are multiple schools of thought and different methods for achieving similar results. I exclude relaxed and dynamic stretches simply because I have seen evidence first-hand of the damage they can inflict on soft tissue.

[Patrick Smith]

I say no. Other coaches say yes. Like any form of athletic training, it's personal preference really. I offer one way of doing it, which has proven successful for me and my clients alike. If you try relaxed stretches, and you feel there is a benefit, then crack on and do them. Same with dynamic stretches.

Flexibility, strength, cardio... they're all similar in that there are multiple schools of thought and different methods for achieving similar results. I exclude relaxed and dynamic stretches simply because I have seen evidence first-hand of the damage they can inflict on soft tissue.

Regarding dynamic stretches and the issue of micro-tears, heavy lifting/intense workouts also cause micro-tears/severe DOMS (or at least that's what I heard). Too much micro-scarring can cause stiffness and inflexibility (another thing I heard), but most high level coaches use tools like foam rollers, massage, and various other soft tissue manipulation tools to help recover from it (for myofascial release I think. It just seems that since dynamic stretches have been used very successfully by hundreds of other people, they can't be all THAT bad. Either way, I see what you're saying. Different methods, different people. And I'd rather try your method before going back to dynamic stretches twice a days... *groan*

By the way, now that I'm 17, I'm going to start easing into isometric stretches. Woot! :woo:

[Van Zandt]

You're a very switched on guy and you grasp this subject better than most people. Never know, it might be you producing a book soon! Good news about the isometrics, good luck with them!

[fabrizio]

Isn't the stretching thread now irrelavant ?

[Van Zandt]

Which stretching thread, Fabrizio?

[fabrizio]

Which stretching thread, Fabrizio?

The beginners guide to flexibility.

From what I read, dynamic stretching and relaxed stretching is now a no no.

[Van Zandt]

So remove them from your training plan; pretty much the rest of that thread still stands.

[fabrizio]

Thanks.

That only leaves isometric stretching. From your post you only have to do two isometric stretches. I don't really understand this because how can only two stretches make you flexible?
Stretches need to be done in order and I could never get close to a side split with out having done 6 or 7 stretches before. The front split is pretty impossible for me at the moment.

My relaxed stretching used to consist of 16+ stretches. Can you do this much with isometric stretching?

[Van Zandt]

Isometric "stretches" have more akin with strength training (weight lifting) than they do your traditional stretches, whereby you attempt to literally elongate the muscle. You're not lengthening anything when you do isometrics, you're actually teaching the muscle to get stronger in the extreme range of motion. When a muscle is stronger, it feels safer, and thus resists less against unusual positions (such as the splits). The front split and side split are all you need because more than this would run the risk of injury through fatigue.

[Metal_Kitty]

But in that case, shouldn't you be doing traditional stretches combined with isometric? Because if you have really poor flexibility to begin with, then wouldn't you need to lengthen the muscle as well as strengthen it?

[proteinnerd]

By the way, now that I'm 17, I'm going to start easing into isometric stretches. Woot! :woo:

Only someone that hasn't done them would get excited about the prospect of doing them :)

I like the results from doing them, but damn! isometrics are hard work and no fun at all.

But I do thank the stretching Gods that they decided we don't have to do early morning dynamic stretches anymore....

[Van Zandt]

But in that case, shouldn't you be doing traditional stretches combined with isometric? Because if you have really poor flexibility to begin with, then wouldn't you need to lengthen the muscle as well as strengthen it?

I don't expect nor want anyone to just take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Do isometrics with relaxed stretches for six weeks, record your progress, then do them for six weeks without relaxed stretches. Record your progress again and compare the relative gains in ROM. I'm confident you'll find your gains were not only greater in the second half of the experiment, but that they were also quicker and you could display them better without a warm up. This is because my first hand research (yes, I have access to a sports lab) has shown that relaxed stretches have a negative impact on flexibility because they impair strength - and, as we all (should) know, strength is the key to great flexibility. You need to understand that flexibility is an indication of how strong you are within a range of movement - not how elastic or how long your muscles are. Changing perceptions is actually one of the harder parts of my job! :)

[Van Zandt]

I forgot to add - if your flexibility is really that bad you feel relaxed stretches are necessary, focus on strength gains over ROM gains. Don't try to increase the stretch so much and instead tense harder, or longer, or both, in your isometrics. In time the increase in strength will translate into greater flexibility. You will know you are getting stronger because your legs won't shake as much during isometrics, you will find it mentally easier to do them (flexibility is as much about the mind as it is the body) and you will feel less resistance as you move through the ROM. I'll post a new thread later with instructions from my upcoming book about how to focus on strength over ROM. It's a great strategy for busting through those plateaus.

[Metal_Kitty]

Thanks, that was very informative! I always thought elasticity was the key, not strength. I guess that's where I've been going wrong.

My front split flexibility is not bad, but my side split is SOOOO terrible! I will try the isometric stretches and cut out the relaxed stretches for a few weeks and see how it goes.

[Knight_Errant]

I personally wouldn't cut them out entirely. They have their place.

[Patrick Smith]

Only someone that hasn't done them would get excited about the prospect of doing them :)

I definitely agree! Although I have done them in the past, I had to stop because of the risk of injury.


But I do thank the stretching Gods that they decided we don't have to do early morning dynamic stretches anymore....

Me too! :hail:

[gcollin]

Sry to nitpick, but its a generally accepted convention to warm up before you stretch. This decreases the chance of pulling something. Particularly with the splits, be patient & careful.

Please explain, I have been having trouble stretching, I usually stretch a little bit and gradually push myself farther. But what do you mean warm up?.

[Patrick Smith]

Please explain, I have been having trouble stretching, I usually stretch a little bit and gradually push myself farther. But what do you mean warm up?.

By warming up Matais most likely means raising general core temperature, joint rotations, and maybe jumping rope for a few minutes.

Here's the thing, though. I think the pre-stretching warm up is unnecessary and does not help to prevent injury (at least as far as relaxed stretches are concerned). I think it comes down to the SAID principle (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands), if you warm up to stretch, you'll need to warm up to be stretchy.

I read an article about this not too long ago, and the author mentioned that coaches were beginning to stretch cold instead of warm because when you warm up, the muscle lengthens (although I feel inclined to say that it's the stretch-reflex that just feels safer), and then after you stretch it tightens up again. According to the author, stretching when cold reduces the post-stretching re-tightening.

Van Zandt, I've been reading about PPS over at T-Nation and they recommend stretching (relaxed) like crazy (as well as foam rolling and certain strength and activation exercises). Do you ever use relaxed stretches to treat PPS or other hard to get at conditions?

I can't remember if I asked you this already, but if I have, I blame it on the hectic college research and preparation! :D

[JamieW]

Could i asks. whne you do the side splits what is the correct method for tensing??, iv bin sort of pressing my legs to the ground, but my legs shake. what is the method for tensing with the front splits too ?? thanks

[simon s]

Could i asks. whne you do the side splits what is the correct method for tensing??, iv bin sort of pressing my legs to the ground, but my legs shake. what is the method for tensing with the front splits too ?? thanks

With the side splits try to imagine you are squeezing your feet down into the floor, as though you want to go through the floor to touch your feet together. Gripping the floor if that makes more sense.

With the front split push the front heel down hard into the ground for a few seconds, relax and then extend the stretch, then repeat.

Make sure you are completely warmed up. The above is a killer, lots of pain (the nice type) but a complete winner.

[JamieW]

With the side splits try to imagine you are squeezing your feet down into the floor, as though you want to go through the floor to touch your feet together. Gripping the floor if that makes more sense.

With the front split push the front heel down hard into the ground for a few seconds, relax and then extend the stretch, then repeat.

Make sure you are completely warmed up. The above is a killer, lots of pain (the nice type) but a complete winner.

Cheers mate thats what i was doing sort of, just needed a second opinion. thanks