Best Martial Art For A Street Situation.

[mkultra]

So I'm a pretty big guy, I'm 6'4", and I weigh about 246 lbs, and I'm not even overweight, I have a little weight I could lose, but its just a little beer belly, but I'm a Endomorph Somatotype which means I will always be a big stocky bloke and that attracts a lot of negative attention from thugs.

I live in a major UK city, and when you are a big intimidating looking guy (which I'm not proud of, I just look like that), then there are a lot of people who want to fight me, just out of the blue people come up to me and start shoving me around and getting violent with me for no reason, I just get "C'mon big man!!, I'm not scared of you, c'mon fight me!! you big ****ing pussy", and because of the way I look I get this at least 3-4 people every time, and that's not an exaggeration because 3-4 is the average, but I have had a night where 8 people started on me out of the blue, because if somebody takes on the big guy then that makes them look tough.

Even though these people are ******s, they are right because I am a pussy, I can't fight for ****.
I'm not a violent guy, and when I'm out I'm not loud, I'm not throwing my weight around I'm not cocky or arrogant if you met any of my friends they would tell you that I'm a nice, quiet, calm guy, and that I wouldn't hurt a fly.
And that's the problem, even though I don't really want to change my persona, I do want to be able to defend myself in a fight, because whenever somebody starts on me I freeze up and pussy out straight away and I want to change that, I don't mind shrugging off some idiot insulting me, but when people actually start getting physical with me, I want to be able to handle myself, without trying to make myself a macho thug just being able to have an actual chance at defending myself.

And also...

I have been held at knife point 4 times, I have been mugged by a mob of people twice, and so far I haven't been stabbed or had 8-12 people beating the **** out of me in a group, but I have been in a few situations where that was quite possible that could have happened, and at the time I wasn't sure it would.

So I was wondering what the best martial art for my situation is?

Cheers.

[mkultra]

Also, even though this is a MA forum, I'm not a big MA fan.

I don't mind dedicating a lot of time to this, when I want something, which this is something I want, I do work hard for my goals, so I will dedicate myself to this.

But what I'm trying to say is, what MA is more about street defence, and less about breaking wooden boards with my hands or doing round house kicks?

Cheers.

[Moi]

MMA

[mkultra]

ok???

[koyo]

I would suggest judo and I realise it may not be effective against knife or multiple opponents BUT it will definately toughen you up and get you used to physical encounter.

It is the perfect base art. perhaps the club may have a self defence element too which would be perfect for you.

I began with judo and shotokan karate and now teach aikido BUT I have NEVER regretted my time spent in judo.

[PHILBERT]

Kendo.

Honestly, it depends on the school. MMA does teach the most "combat" in terms of actually fighting, however, MMA schools train for sport which is a down side.

MMA schools for example rarely, if ever, emphasize things like multiple attackers or weapons.

I've been to about 4 MMA schools, only 1 showed any training with multiple attackers and/or weapons. The first one I trained at. The instructor flat out said "If someone has a knife, if you can't get away use anything as a weapon." He spit on me and threw a book at my face that he was holding then tackled me, the force of the tackle knocked the knife from my hand.

[Moi]

It's no B/S, no boards, no bowing, just learning to fight & giving you confidence. You won't learn weapon disarms but that sort of thing is likely to get you killed anyhow

[mkultra]

Thanks, I was thinking on this Muay Thai gym that's about 30 min drive from my house.
I used to be a boxer between the ages 13-15, but since then I have lost all my confidence with all that kind of stuff, and the only reason I did it is because my dad insisted that I did some kind of boxing.

I have looked into some Judo, but I heard it wasn't as good in an IRL situation because it teaches you to pin people facing up whereas stuff like Krav Maga, BJJ and JJJ teaches you to pin them facing down, but I didn't like the ideas of doing anything like the JJ's because they focus on training for competition rather than training for a real life situation that you would use your skills for.

I don't think there are any Judo Dojos (sorry if Dojo isn't the correct term for Judo) in my area, there might be, but I was thinking of asking the MT place if they will let me train and spar, but not enter me into any competition or leagues or anything.

When you say MMA do you mean the kind of stuff they use in UFC?

[rivend]

So I'm a pretty big guy, I'm 6'4", and I weigh about 246 lbs, and I'm not even overweight, I have a little weight I could lose, but its just a little beer belly, but I'm a Endomorph Somatotype which means I will always be a big stocky bloke and that attracts a lot of negative attention from thugs.

I live in a major UK city, and when you are a big intimidating looking guy (which I'm not proud of, I just look like that), then there are a lot of people who want to fight me, just out of the blue people come up to me and start shoving me around and getting violent with me for no reason, I just get "C'mon big man!!, I'm not scared of you, c'mon fight me!! you big ****ing pussy", and because of the way I look I get this at least 3-4 people every time, and that's not an exaggeration because 3-4 is the average, but I have had a night where 8 people started on me out of the blue, because if somebody takes on the big guy then that makes them look tough.

Even though these people are ******s, they are right because I am a pussy, I can't fight for ****.
I'm not a violent guy, and when I'm out I'm not loud, I'm not throwing my weight around I'm not cocky or arrogant if you met any of my friends they would tell you that I'm a nice, quiet, calm guy, and that I wouldn't hurt a fly.
And that's the problem, even though I don't really want to change my persona, I do want to be able to defend myself in a fight, because whenever somebody starts on me I freeze up and pussy out straight away and I want to change that, I don't mind shrugging off some idiot insulting me, but when people actually start getting physical with me, I want to be able to handle myself, without trying to make myself a macho thug just being able to have an actual chance at defending myself.

And also...

I have been held at knife point 4 times, I have been mugged by a mob of people twice, and so far I haven't been stabbed or had 8-12 people beating the **** out of me in a group, but I have been in a few situations where that was quite possible that could have happened, and at the time I wasn't sure it would.

So I was wondering what the best martial art for my situation is?

Cheers.

I just have to ask where are the police at when all this is happening to you. The police in my area live for someone trying to do these things to someone and they deal with them accordingly.

[Moi]

When you say MMA do you mean the kind of stuff they use in UFC?

That's right. Muay Thai gym sounds good too. That training will be much like your boxing only with more tools

[Moi]

I just have to ask where are the police at when all this is happening to you. The police in my area live for someone trying to do these things to someone and they deal with them accordingly.

That's funny they just clean up the mess here

[mkultra]

I don't know where the police are lol.

They usually show up when I call them after it has happened.

I know it sounds kinda stupid, but because I am a student I live in a pretty ghetto area where thugs love to hang out and mug and rob us or just for the hell of it beat the crap out of us.

Also I'm really into live music and the venues are in pretty crappy areas for some reason, so most of my problems with this kind of stuff happen when I am walking home from a gig because I cant afford taxis and buses don't run that late.

[mkultra]

That's right. Muay Thai gym sounds good too. That training will be much like your boxing only with more tools

That's cool.

I have been looking for MMA clubs in my city online, but I have had no luck so far.

[Moi]

That's cool.

I have been looking for MMA clubs in my city online, but I have had no luck so far.

I'm almost certain there'll be one somewhere close to you. Search for MMA now

[mkultra]

Found this place.

http://www.sindromemma.co.uk/

I will give it a try, but I don't know if they do beginners.

[Moi]

They'll take begineers and they have two fighters on the show posted in their events section which is always a good sign. Whoever proofed the poster needs shooting mind. Marshall arts???

[Seviko]

with your height and reach..Muay Thai is the best art for you..Legs, Knees, Fists, Elbows..You learn the clinch to. Judo is good to but you wont have the lower centre of gravity in a fight against smaller people which can be a disadvantage.

[PHILBERT]

Be very, very careful though when researching MMA clubs. A lot of schools have hopped on the MMA bandwagon and teach a few "moves" then claim to be an MMA club.

A recent study I did, and by study I mean I looked in Google, turned up:

8 schools in my city alone of 370,000 people. Of those, the following are also taught at the schools.

5 teach Tae Kwon Do
7 teach Muay Thai
2 teach Judo, but neither of which give any information on what rank the instructor has in Judo.

Only 1 school exclusively trained in BJJ. Gi/no gi training.

Now, I haven't visited each of these schools, and I know which schools are 100% legitimate (including 1 or 2 that teach Tae Kwon Do) but there are some TKD schools out there that are jumping on the MMA bandwagon.

[Maelstrom_AC]

I would recommend Krav Maga if you can find a good instructor around you. They'll focus on self defense scenarios such as defending against a knife or facing multiple attackers. They should also teach you how to try to de-escalate a potential conflict, and if not possible then how to cause maximum damage/pain and then get away quickly. The point is always to come to as little harm as possible, so generally once you are able to escape you should.

[mkultra]

I think I will start out with the Muay Thia training first.

But I know of a great martial arts shop which the guy who runs it knows a lot about the clubs and I will speak to him to see what the legitimate MMA clubs in the area.

Cheers.

Btw, does anybody know of any sites where I can get Vegan/Non-Leather MMA gear from?

[Ranzan]

Seconded Krav Maga and Akido, I don't really understand why Muay Thai was mentioned so much. Don't get me wrong I love Muay Thai but it isn't an art that really focuses on the self defense aspect. It is sport as is MMA they are meant to be applied in a setting with rules and regulations. Krav Maga is best bet in my opinion if it is a legit school, it will teach you how to get away from situations dealing maximum damage to opponents while getting you out unscathed.

[PHILBERT]

I think I will start out with the Muay Thia training first.

But I know of a great martial arts shop which the guy who runs it knows a lot about the clubs and I will speak to him to see what the legitimate MMA clubs in the area.

Cheers.

Btw, does anybody know of any sites where I can get Vegan/Non-Leather MMA gear from?

http://www.martialartsmart.com/mma-gear.html

They have some vinyl gear.

[Kuma]

I would suggest judo and I realise it may not be effective against knife or multiple opponents BUT it will definately toughen you up and get you used to physical encounter.

It is the perfect base art. perhaps the club may have a self defence element too which would be perfect for you.

I began with judo and shotokan karate and now teach aikido BUT I have NEVER regretted my time spent in judo.

I would second this, and tell you to start back up with your boxing training. Boxing and Judo combined is a good mix. You'll have fast powerful punches, good defense against punches, learn how to take a few punches, and find out the best ways to knock somebody out. Since the average knob will try to throw punches first, that's a big plus.

Once they realize they're taking a beating, that's when they'll probably try to wrestle you and that's when you use the Judo. Slam them onto the concrete and chances are they won't want to be fighting you again anytime soon. Get in a bad position on the ground and you'll actually be able to fight there effectively.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have started with Judo while I was boxing.

[Jiu JitsuNation]

Brazilian Jiu JItsu! And if you can't find that muay thai, boxing, sambo or judo. The whole muay thai being a sport thing. I've seen a couple thai guys on different occasions cut threw a few people at once. They style is brutal and if you are unfamiliar and find yourself on the receiving in you might end up with punctured lungs from broken ribs. True story BTW.

But then again if you want to just take anyones advice you might want to check this out first. YouTube- Untold Gracie Jiu Jitsu Self Defense Secrets

[Jiu JitsuNation]

I would second this, and tell you to start back up with your boxing training. Boxing and Judo combined is a good mix. You'll have fast powerful punches, good defense against punches, learn how to take a few punches, and find out the best ways to knock somebody out. Since the average knob will try to throw punches first, that's a big plus.

Once they realize they're taking a beating, that's when they'll probably try to wrestle you and that's when you use the Judo. Slam them onto the concrete and chances are they won't want to be fighting you again anytime soon. Get in a bad position on the ground and you'll actually be able to fight there effectively.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have started with Judo while I was boxing.

Solid!

[Johnno]

I know it sounds kinda stupid, but because I am a student I live in a pretty ghetto area where thugs love to hang out and mug and rob us or just for the hell of it beat the crap out of us.Are you living in Woodhouse, mkultra? If you are, then you could do yourself a big favour by moving over to Hyde Park or up to Headingley where you won't have to live with that kind of hassle. Leeds has got the biggest student population outside London, but they don't all suffer the kind of nonsense that you are putting up with.

Yes, start doing an MA because it'll give you more confidence, it'll make you fitter, you'll enjoy yourself, and given time you'll get some good tools to use if you are forced to defend yourself.

But if you are regularly in situations where you're getting set on by three or four idiots then you're best bet is to move. As a student, you're not tied to one area, are you?

[Moi]

Be very, very careful though when researching MMA clubs. A lot of schools have hopped on the MMA bandwagon and teach a few "moves" then claim to be an MMA club.

A recent study I did, and by study I mean I looked in Google, turned up:

8 schools in my city alone of 370,000 people. Of those, the following are also taught at the schools.

Only 1 school exclusively trained in BJJ. Gi/no gi training.

Now, I haven't visited each of these schools, and I know which schools are 100% legitimate (including 1 or 2 that teach Tae Kwon Do) but there are some TKD schools out there that are jumping on the MMA bandwagon.


Don't think that's the case over here just yet and as the gym he's posted has members competing in MMA events he should be covered. Just trying to think of MT gyms in Leeds

[emaaoz]

I'd recommend finding a club with the right ethos, rather than getting focussed on one specific "style". Check out the British Combat Association http://britishcombat.co.uk and see if they have a registered club near you.

As an organisation they are arguably the best proponents of martial arts as a way of protecting yourself in the real world.

[Ninjuries]

As has been mentioned before, could you see if you can crosstrain? If you can put your finger on any 'gaps' in a martial art you've been learning for, say, a year you might find something that fills those gaps for you that you can also train in.

I'd take a risk and suggest Ninpo otherwise, but that doesn't half stir things up! You get a broad spectrum of hard-knocks training IF you find a good dojo. That's hard to do outside the Genbukan, so I hear, but I would be somewhat biased on that front.

I've found it fantastic so long as you don't actually believe you'll be a real-life hollywood ninja. Also, a good dojo will impress upon you that the weapons training against knives are not inheriting super powers... Just gives you a better shot at survival if your life's in danger rather than your wallet is.

From what I read from people who I've come to believe and the limited amount I've seen of both, Krav and Muay Thai will get you tough fast... Again, emphasis is on finding good schools.

Best of luck though and DO come back and tell us how you get on! Try LOADS of different classes of anything I'd think and if something 'clicks' with you even if it's not what you'd initially considered then go with that. :)

[m1k3jobs]

mkultra, I think you really need to look at why you are a target so much.

1. Most people who pick fights are bullies and for some reason they think you are a good target. They really aren't interested in picking fights with people who they think are good fighters. So in some way you are presenting yourself as an easy mark.

2. Sub optimal survival behavior. You go out to places in bad areas, by yourself and then walk home by yourself. After being jumped more than once you still continue to do the same things. There is no need for you to put yourself into bad situations.

A combat sport martial art is what I would recommend. Because you have to compete, even if it is only sparing in class, will give you the self confidence that you can take and deliver punishment as well as the skills to do it. So something like Judo, BJJ, boxing or Muay Thai would all be good choices.

[Caleb Demarais]

I can't disagree with the styles that have been mentioned thus far. I would also suggest researching situational/environmental awareness and verbal de-escalation. Books such as Geoff Thompson's "Art of Fighting Without Fighting" are good starting points. You can get free downloads from the following link:

http://peb.pl/dokumenty/240630-rapidshare-com-sztuki-walki-sport-bron.html

[47MartialMan]

I can't disagree with the styles that have been mentioned thus far. I would also suggest researching situational/environmental awareness and verbal de-escalation. Books such as Geoff Thompson's "Art of Fighting Without Fighting" are good starting points. You can get free downloads from the following link:

http://peb.pl/dokumenty/240630-rapidshare-com-sztuki-walki-sport-bron.html

Thanks for the link

I dont know about this book.

But for some time, I have attended many social, violent, anger, rape, seminars and the like in order to maintain a realistic self defense aproach

All too often people teaching self defense overlook the other aspects beyond physical applications

[ArthurKing]

It's been mentioned before and i've said it lots of times- look at how they train not what they train. Any good, self defence based art will do you good, providing the training is done against sufficient pressure (not straight up, but after a while). You want hard strikes (boxing, kickboxing, Kyokushinkai, Krav Maga), some ground work (BJJ, Judo) and a good level of fitness. I realise you can't do all of these at once but a striking art and a grappling art are a good start (listen to Koyo).
Apart from that you really need to look at your habits and behaviour, i have friends your size and they haven't been attacked as many times as you (i'm not having a dig, but you really do need to ask yourself how come?).
Your ideal scenario is stun and run, not pinning (useless against groups) and there is very little guaranteed to work against multiple attackers and weapons.
So, get fitter, adjust your habits and train hard on a regular basis, bulding confidence and toughness.
Good luck
P.S. i'm not discounting other arts, these are simply the ones i think will work best for you- i'm a karateka myself.

[mkultra]

I have been doing Muay Thai since about a week after I posted this, and it has been good, although they seem to be building me up for competition more that me just training and sparring, which is completely understandable because it seems like they are a competition gym, and me just paying my money and training and sparring a little may be wasting their time, and they haven't said that but I think that's what I'm doing in their eyes.
I don't really want to be a fighter, its not really my thing, to each their own, but I just want to know the next time me or any of my friends at risk of getting attacked we have a good chance of getting away without much harm and I can deliver some kind of attack and get away.

I'm not sure about what to try next, I was thinking about Judo, I'm trying to do a little research about what each one entails so I don't go shelling out on gear then realize it isn't going to be helpful.
The problem is with Judo is I noticed then pin each other face up, which probably isn't a good idea when in a street fight, and I'm not sure what they do about striking and if I get into a situation I wont have good punching and kicking techniques and all I can do is pin the guy down.

Just putting it out there.

[mkultra]

I don't know if there are any Martial Arts teachers here.

If you were, or know you teachers well, would this piss them off?

I hate being in the same place too long, once I am done with college for a while next spring summer, I want to go do some travelling and that, so would taking a big chunk of training for a while piss off my teacher?

Also, I don't really want to travel around with for a few years, would I still learn things by going to different schools?

If I do Muay Thai and/or Judo, would I be able to train at different gyms depending on where I am, or do teachers only like people who train consistently with that particular gym, if that makes any sense?
I will train all the time, but if I'm living in Manchester for a few months, then I'm living in Birmingham for a few months, would I be able to train at all these different gyms/dojos?

[47MartialMan]

I have been doing Muay Thai since about a week after I posted this, and it has been good, although they seem to be building me up for competition more that me just training and sparring, which is completely understandable because it seems like they are a competition gym, and me just paying my money and training and sparring a little may be wasting their time, and they haven't said that but I think that's what I'm doing in their eyes.
I dont quite understand. if the MT gym has you "building up for competition", wouldn't they have you training and sparring? I would think the training and sparring would have its uses far beyond competition.


I don't really want to be a fighter, its not really my thing, to each their own, but I just want to know the next time me or any of my friends at risk of getting attacked we have a good chance of getting away without much harm and I can deliver some kind of attack and get away.
You don't have to train to be a fighter for defense. The best defense is not be there in the first place. You speak of you and your friends. Chances if all of you go to areas where it is likely or higher of getting attacked, you will have numbers.



I'm not sure about what to try next, I was thinking about Judo, I'm trying to do a little research about what each one entails so I don't go shelling out on gear then realize it isn't going to be helpful.
The problem is with Judo is I noticed then pin each other face up, which probably isn't a good idea when in a street fight, and I'm not sure what they do about striking and if I get into a situation I wont have good punching and kicking techniques and all I can do is pin the guy down.
I dont think the idea of trying something within so short of time inbetween is going to make too much difference in gear.

You are mistaken as you think Judo is about pinning each other face up. Judo came from Ju Jitsu, and their are many other defense pins, locks, holds, chokes, etc., if you happen to get a experence Judo instructor that teaches far beyond competition Judo.




I hate being in the same place too long, once I am done with college for a while next spring summer, I want to go do some travelling and that, so would taking a big chunk of training for a while piss off my teacher?

Also, I don't really want to travel around with for a few years, would I still learn things by going to different schools?
I dont understand this. Do you want to travel or don't want to travel?
If you have to travel, any teacher will know that there is the chance of you finding another teacher. Generally speaking, if you are at one MT and find another elsewhere, the training/methods should be very simular.


If I do Muay Thai and/or Judo, would I be able to train at different gyms depending on where I am, or do teachers only like people who train consistently with that particular gym, if that makes any sense? I will train all the time, but if I'm living in Manchester for a few months, then I'm living in Birmingham for a few months, would I be able to train at all these different gyms/dojos?

Training in diferrent Gyms is entirely up to you. I wouldnt train at multiple gyms, esp those of far different methods being a beginner, or someone just starting the path of martial arts.

[ArthurKing]

Sorry Mkultra, like Martial man, i too am a little confused by your last couple of posts.
If you want to learn self defence then it is best to train consistently with one main art. Yes Judo (as far as i am aware) doesn't do much work with strikes (for competition) but don't Judoka talk about hitting people with the biggest fist there is- the planet! in which case face down or up may not make much difference.
All gyms/clubs are different, if you have to move around, try and stick with the same art at least, or you simply won't spend enough time drilling techniques in a way that will 'stick'.
Who cares whether the instructors prefer visitors or regulars? When i'm away from home i still try and train, if i can't find a Wado club then i do something else, i've had some good training and learned stuff that way!
I'm not sure if i've misunderstood some of what you've said but, realistically, the only way you're going to develop useful fighting skills is to become a useful fighter!

So go train, stick with an art you enjoy for a while (years, not months), train hard, learn some self/street awareness and then, maybe, you'll be able to produce the goods at the right time. There is no short cut and no unbeatable art, there's just training.

[Master Betty]

Hey man, you're getting a lot of advice here, some of it from people who know what they're talking about, some of them don't. So I won't really add to that because if you're completely new then you won't know who's talkin sense.

Personally, a big guy like yourself? If you really don't want to fight I'd tell ya to take up rugby. It reallt taught me how to throw what little weight I have around (I was big for my age at high school).

However, since you seemed to be leading towards MMA or Muay Thai and you live in Leeds I can say that the Bad Company gym in Leeds is the best thai boxing gym in the UK at the moment. They train a lot of the best fighters in the country, Liam Harrison, Andy Howson, Richard Cadden, Jordan Watson etc. and they have plenty of classes.

http://www.badcompany.co.uk/index.asp

that's their website - look up some of their fighters on youtube if you want. theres plenty of footage.

[mkultra]

I'm a crappy typer, my punctuation is bad and a lot of typos.

but thanks for the advice.

What I meant by building for competition is they are already talking to me about training me up for competition, like they are saying that they train Muay Thai boxers and nothing else, and people who go there go there to learn how to fight competition, and that's how they are putting it.

I know the best defence is to not be there in the first place, but it has happened a lot in the past, and if people knew where all the bad places where, then there would be no crime in the world at all, because all the criminal *****s would be there and nobody would go there, then nobody would get mugged or murdered at all, but it just isn't that simple.
Also, if that was the case, the only place safe for me is at home, because off me being the size that I am, I'm a popular target for people, its the whole "If you punch out the big guy you will look tough" and it happens more than you would think at least twice a night in the centre of Leeds, just going round the bars in the nicer parts of town even, and I have to admit, I'm not a tough person, and my friends have had to step in to help their massive friend from having the crap kicked out of him.
So another thing I want to learn, is if somebody really wants to fight me and wont give up, which has been the case in the past, then I can defend myself, because if I stay out of those places, I couldn't leave the house...

I don't know too much about Judo, and I didn't say that Judo was pinning people face up, I can only go on what people tell me and what I read, it could be months, probably a year or two before I do anything that could be affective on the street, so I don't know yet.
And the whole purpose of that post, even though it was badly written, was "any body know if I'm wrong about this with Judo", which I was, so...

Yeah, I do want to move around, just wanted to know if in consistency would piss off any teachers, or not training consistently with the same teacher and learning under a particular style until I develop my own, would be bad for my training.

What is Judoka talk?


So go train, stick with an art you enjoy for a while (years, not months), train hard, learn some self/street awareness and then, maybe, you'll be able to produce the goods at the right time. There is no short cut and no unbeatable art, there's just training.

Thanks, I will, I think I will stick with Muay Thai for a while.

Hey man, you're getting a lot of advice here, some of it from people who know what they're talking about, some of them don't. So I won't really add to that because if you're completely new then you won't know who's talkin sense.

Personally, a big guy like yourself? If you really don't want to fight I'd tell ya to take up rugby. It reallt taught me how to throw what little weight I have around (I was big for my age at high school).

However, since you seemed to be leading towards MMA or Muay Thai and you live in Leeds I can say that the Bad Company gym in Leeds is the best thai boxing gym in the UK at the moment. They train a lot of the best fighters in the country, Liam Harrison, Andy Howson, Richard Cadden, Jordan Watson etc. and they have plenty of classes.

http://www.badcompany.co.uk/index.asp

that's their website - look up some of their fighters on youtube if you want. theres plenty of footage.

Thanks and thanks to everybody btw, I do appreciate the advice and your input.

Thanks, I'll check bad company out, me and some mates went to see some Thai Boxing a few years ago, and most of the fighters there trained at bad manners, atm I'm training at a local gym, but I'll see if I can make it up there.

[robin101]

Its strange recently I thought what techniques you used were all important and learning the right art was the most important thing. I wanted something hardcore like krav maga or military stuff. Then I was prompted by people such as martialman 47 and others to watch more videos of actual fights and violence. And I can tell you I have since witnessed close to 150 videos of actual fights from across the world. I can tell you a few observations I have made.

1. real fights are messy so dont do anything which is overly technical.
2. most fights are a mixture of these elements punching (mostly to the head/ face though some body shots but not as many) wrestling grappling, (ground and pounds, body slams, pins etc), Kicks (round mostly but some straight, to the legs and to the body)

So train in something which covers useing and countering all of the above and you will be fine, anything with resistant sparring ( i.e both of you want to win and not get hurt)
Not all arts teach you all of this but mix it up. I do kyokushin karate for punches/ body and leg kicks (awsome coz we dont wear pads so its good preparation) and I plan on doing Sambo at some point for grappling.

[Master Betty]

Its strange recently I thought what techniques you used were all important and learning the right art was the most important thing. I wanted something hardcore like krav maga or military stuff. Then I was prompted by people such as martialman 47 and others to watch more videos of actual fights and violence. And I can tell you I have since witnessed close to 150 videos of actual fights from across the world. I can tell you a few observations I have made.

1. real fights are messy so dont do anything which is overly technical.
2. most fights are a mixture of these elements punching (mostly to the head/ face though some body shots but not as many) wrestling grappling, (ground and pounds, body slams, pins etc), Kicks (round mostly but some straight, to the legs and to the body)

So train in something which covers useing and countering all of the above and you will be fine, anything with resistant sparring ( i.e both of you want to win and not get hurt)
Not all arts teach you all of this but mix it up. I do kyokushin karate for punches/ body and leg kicks (awsome coz we dont wear pads so its good preparation) and I plan on doing Sambo at some point for grappling.

Good point. The thing about Kyokushin is that, whilst I have great respect for it, in this case it has one big major weakness - you don't train to guard against head punches. Withotu a doubt the single most thrown technique in any fight anywhere in the world.

[mkultra]

Just to cap this off, I have settled on Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu (Japanese).
And in reference to my other thread on the newbie questions about taking a punch, I have had a couple of sparring sessions and it was pretty excellent and its like back in the day with boxing before it went bad with the lad who wore the thin gloves so I'm loving Muay Thai at the moment.

I'm also thinking about this Ninjitsu class too:
http://www.bujinkan-leeds.co.uk/
Although on the site it doesn't say how much it costs so I'm off down next Saturday.

I have tried out a couple of others.
I tried Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan and Judo.
I was kinda gutted about Judo because its one I really wanted to do, but Leeds is crap for Judo clubs.
I never got chance to try out BJJ either, because all the clubs are either too far away or aren't pay per class and I can't get the money together to pay for a season or anything like that.

Just thought I would say.

[Master Betty]

Just to cap this off, I have settled on Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu (Japanese).
And in reference to my other thread on the newbie questions about taking a punch, I have had a couple of sparring sessions and it was pretty excellent and its like back in the day with boxing before it went bad with the lad who wore the thin gloves so I'm loving Muay Thai at the moment.

I'm also thinking about this Ninjitsu class too:
http://www.bujinkan-leeds.co.uk/
Although on the site it doesn't say how much it costs so I'm off down next Saturday.

I have tried out a couple of others.
I tried Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan and Judo.
I was kinda gutted about Judo because its one I really wanted to do, but Leeds is crap for Judo clubs.
I never got chance to try out BJJ either, because all the clubs are either too far away or aren't pay per class and I can't get the money together to pay for a season or anything like that.

Just thought I would say.

How did you get on at Bad Company?

[mkultra]

How did you get on at Bad Company?

Bad Company was a great gym but it cost quite a lot to get there and the training was slightly more expensive than the one I go to at the moment, but the main reason I can't use BC is because their MT sessions are on the same day as Jiu Jitsu.
Plus its not too far away from me at all, like a 5 minute walk.

[Infrazael]

Enjoy your time at Muay Thai and if you haven't noticed already during clinching, since you are big/tall and probably pretty strong you will have a big advantage in a fight there.

Using your weight/leverage and manhandling someone while kneeing them in the body/face... probably one of the best self-defense techniques there is.

The bigger you are of course, the more damage you can do to someone.

Push kick/thrust kicks are also one of the best weapons because it creates distance, can knock someone down and create space/time for you to get the hell out. And being big, with long limbs you can REALLY knock someone the hell away from you and run or do whatever.

[Master Betty]

Bad Company was a great gym but it cost quite a lot to get there and the training was slightly more expensive than the one I go to at the moment, but the main reason I can't use BC is because their MT sessions are on the same day as Jiu Jitsu.
Plus its not too far away from me at all, like a 5 minute walk.

Ah unlucky. The gym you are going to is a MAJOR step down from Bad Company. I've never heard of tiger's gym in Leeds but I know that Bad Company currently has the pound for pound best thai boxer in the country. Possibly in Europe. They also have loads of other fighters who're ranked number 1 at their weight class. But if you cna't make it and it's too expensive then those are good reasons. It's just a shame to have to settle for where you have.

[Infrazael]

Ah unlucky. The gym you are going to is a MAJOR step down from Bad Company. I've never heard of tiger's gym in Leeds but I know that Bad Company currently has the pound for pound best thai boxer in the country. Possibly in Europe. They also have loads of other fighters who're ranked number 1 at their weight class. But if you cna't make it and it's too expensive then those are good reasons. It's just a shame to have to settle for where you have.

I thought the Europe P4P best is from Italy? :evil:

[Master Betty]

I thought the Europe P4P best is from Italy? :evil:

I actually don't know who you're talking about lol. The person considered P4P best in europe is usually Liam Harrison. P4P best in the world is considered, rightly so, to be Saenchai sor Kingstar. Liam Harrison has fought Saenchai sor Kingstar. He has fought and beaten many of the Lumpinee and Raja champs at his weight.

[Infrazael]

I'm referring to Giorgio Petrosyan.... most people I've talked to seems to think he's europe's P4P best right now.

[Master Betty]

I'm referring to Giorgio Petrosyan.... most people I've talked to seems to think he's europe's P4P best right now.

In thai boxing? Are you kidding me?

Edit: I just want to clarify my statement - he's a K1 fighter. Though he fights from a thai background, he doesn't fight at the same level in muay thai.

[Master Betty]

Also, he's only ever fought 8 thai's. He's beaten 5 of them. Only 2 by TKO. The other 3 he apparently beat on points. Now I'm sorry but I get highly suspicious when someone's record has them only ever fighting the top thais in their home country and never in Thailand. Especially the points decisions since I know what the average knowledge of muay thai scoring is like in most of Europe.

[mkultra]

Ah unlucky. The gym you are going to is a MAJOR step down from Bad Company. I've never heard of tiger's gym in Leeds but I know that Bad Company currently has the pound for pound best thai boxer in the country. Possibly in Europe. They also have loads of other fighters who're ranked number 1 at their weight class. But if you cna't make it and it's too expensive then those are good reasons. It's just a shame to have to settle for where you have.

Thanks.

I would consider trying a new JJ place in order to train at Bad Company if I wanted to be a top fighter in the Muay Thai leagues or combine it with my JJ training to become an MMA fighter, but Tigers is a good place, it might not be as flash as Bad Company but its a great gym and I want to learn how to fight so when some (can't swear here) comes and tries to fight me I can actually fight back and get out of it unharmed which I think Tigers will be able to teach me, and combined with Jiu Jitsu should make me a decent fighter when it comes to self defence in a street fight.
I don't even know if I want to compete in leagues, I will definitely want to spar and get hit a few times, but Martial Arts doesn't play a huge part in my life and I have always hated watching UFC and typical UFC fans and all the egos and macho bull that comes with it.

[mattt]

If possible, come back 6 months from now and update us on how your training worked for you.

I would agree that Muay Thai is the best thing you can start with right now (and if you have to drop one due to time or money issues stick with the Muay Thai).

If you are lacking confidence in a fight (one could argue that all you are learning is confidence really) then the best thing you can be doing is pressuring testing yourself and scrapping as much as possible in a controlled environment so that it becomes natural to you.

Anything that involves going to the ground, even with sparring/randori is critical to know, but get the striking down first because the last thing you want to be doing is pulling guard in the street.

[JaxMMA]

Good choice with Muay Thai and JJ.
But really if you keep getting attacked that many times, I don't think it will help you much. If anything, you might piss them off and get more beatings...

[altc]

So I'm a pretty big guy, I'm 6'4", and I weigh about 246 lbs, and I'm not even overweight, I have a little weight I could lose, but its just a little beer belly, but I'm a Endomorph Somatotype which means I will always be a big stocky bloke and that attracts a lot of negative attention from thugs.

I live in a major UK city, and when you are a big intimidating looking guy (which I'm not proud of, I just look like that), then there are a lot of people who want to fight me, just out of the blue people come up to me and start shoving me around and getting violent with me for no reason, I just get "C'mon big man!!, I'm not scared of you, c'mon fight me!! you big ****ing pussy", and because of the way I look I get this at least 3-4 people every time, and that's not an exaggeration because 3-4 is the average, but I have had a night where 8 people started on me out of the blue, because if somebody takes on the big guy then that makes them look tough.

Even though these people are ******s, they are right because I am a pussy, I can't fight for ****.
I'm not a violent guy, and when I'm out I'm not loud, I'm not throwing my weight around I'm not cocky or arrogant if you met any of my friends they would tell you that I'm a nice, quiet, calm guy, and that I wouldn't hurt a fly.
And that's the problem, even though I don't really want to change my persona, I do want to be able to defend myself in a fight, because whenever somebody starts on me I freeze up and pussy out straight away and I want to change that, I don't mind shrugging off some idiot insulting me, but when people actually start getting physical with me, I want to be able to handle myself, without trying to make myself a macho thug just being able to have an actual chance at defending myself.

And also...

I have been held at knife point 4 times, I have been mugged by a mob of people twice, and so far I haven't been stabbed or had 8-12 people beating the **** out of me in a group, but I have been in a few situations where that was quite possible that could have happened, and at the time I wasn't sure it would.

So I was wondering what the best martial art for my situation is?

Cheers.

Muay Thai and a good Filipino based weapons system.

But mainly, stop going out and getting in those situations in the first place! Perhaps martial arts isn't what you need but Self Protection stuff.

[JaxMMA]

Perhaps martial arts isn't what you need but Self Protection stuff.

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/warmachine.jpg

[Dizzyj]

Muay Thai and a good Filipino based weapons system.

But mainly, stop going out and getting in those situations in the first place! Perhaps martial arts isn't what you need but Self Protection stuff.

Seconded, on both accounts.

[carl hammond]

I have not read every post here but have read the initial post and I woudl recommend Muay Thai and Kickboxing (I train both in one club) and love them, they are similar but also very different in certain aspects of their techniques. Muay Thai and Kickboxing for me bring out more confidence and generally people will go for you with a punch or a push etc and when trained in these ares you can either move from it and get them or block it and counter or even see it coming and as they do teppe/front kick them back and knock the wind out of them.

Also 90% of peopel on the street starting will be chav's pikeys etc and will be boxer style, how will they cope with a muay thai kick to the inner thich or outer leg or back of the knee (not too well imo), or when the swing and loose balance and take an elbow to the back or knee to the ribs.

I have done Aikido for a while and did not find it beneficial for me, Karate was too NON contact as was TKD, however I am in my element with Muay Thai and Kickboxing.

What city are you in by the way? As mentioned above also try to avoid the situation as unless your confident and trained well it can be a bad thing as you could stand the ground and be faced with a situ that you dont know how to counter / react to and could end up being bad on your behalf.

Although I am confident in my ability and my kicks are powerful etc, I try to avoid fights I dont see the point and have a daughter to think about, if I reacted and days later got killed, stabbed etc I dont want that on her to see or know about so avoid things at all costs.

For example I am in Maidstone Kent in the UK, was walking with two friend over the millenium bridge 3 years ago when a group of pikeys the other side were arguing, one stormed over the bridge and I was on left, mates wetre on right so he could pass through, before I knew it he shouted I will take all 3 of you on and threw a headbutt myway, I pulled back and threw an uppercut smashing his nose and he hit the deck, I left it and walked on but one of my mates couldn't and pounded 7 shades of sh1t out of him. Then the others saw and we had to leg it, see for me I wanted to leave it, he failed and went down, why finish him???

Carl

[JaxMMA]

Seems like there are a lot of violent folks in UK :)

What's a "pikey"?

[simon s]

Seems like there are a lot of violent folks in UK :)

What's a "pikey"?

I don't think the UK is any more violent than any other major country in the world, we do however get labelled with having a drink culture, which certainly makes for news, probably all around the world.

A pikey is a derogatory term for a gypsy/traveller.

Gypies (pikeys) generally are a law unto themselves in this country and are generally left to their own devices by the police. Certainly not people to cross.

[simon s]

For example I am in Maidstone Kent in the UK, Carl

Hi Carl, I am in East Malling, just out side of Maidstone.

See you around some time.

[RagingDelirium]

i'd recommend Krav Maga, really fast to learn and also supposedly one of the best Self Defence styles (but having said that i going on its reputation only)

As ever it just comes down to finding a decent instructor, that you can tolerate and vice versa

[_sam_]

Gypies (pikeys) generally are a law unto themselves in this country and are generally left to their own devices by the police. Certainly not people to cross.[/QUOTE]

Aint that the truth! Try getting a gypsy girl pregnant when your not part of their community haha quite an experience, though not one i'd reccommend.

[JaxMMA]

Ah, thanks for the explanation.

I knew I heard the term somewhere before, but couldn't remember where...

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/113294/snatch5.jpg

[Knight_Errant]

I thought I'd just chuck in my opinion here. I think it's a GOOD thing to have a sporting format in which to compare athletes. I mean, take me and the fish of doom. I could quite feasibly perform a turkish getup with him as a weight. There's no question of his being able to clean my clock. But put us together in sparring and he'd kick my arse because he trains all the time. It's a mental process as much as anything else- a game of chess. And that, to me, is a worthwhile ambition.

[altc]

There have been some decent sugestions for unamred martial arts, systems but you cannot ignore edged weapons based systems, the filipino ones primarily.

In most places around the world, the knife is the most likely weapon you will face, unless you are in the US where it is a firearm followed by a knife.

To suggest a solid system for street defence without covering the knife is quite bad form. If you are an instructor doing this, it is borderline malpractise.

[Master Betty]

There have been some decent sugestions for unamred martial arts, systems but you cannot ignore edged weapons based systems, the filipino ones primarily.

In most places around the world, the knife is the most likely weapon you will face, unless you are in the US where it is a firearm followed by a knife.

To suggest a solid system for street defence without covering the knife is quite bad form. If you are an instructor doing this, it is borderline malpractise.

I come from the knife crime capital of the world. If you think the average person with a knife is going to try and fight you with it the same way someone from pencak silat is going to then you've obviously never seen a real knife attack.

Especially here in glasgow, if someones going to stab you, they'll walk up while your back's turned, all the while keeping the knife completely out of sight. When they're right behind you, they'll pull the knife out, stick you in the kidneys with it a couple of times and then hide the knife and casually walk away. I've seen it happen to a few of my friends. Screwdrivers are a common weapon for the same reason.

No idiots going to pull a knife and wave it about in your face, advertising the fact that he has one. If he does it means he probably wasn't planning on using it to begin with.

[altc]

I come from the knife crime capital of the world. If you think the average person with a knife is going to try and fight you with it the same way someone from pencak silat is going to then you've obviously never seen a real knife attack.

Especially here in glasgow, if someones going to stab you, they'll walk up while your back's turned, all the while keeping the knife completely out of sight. When they're right behind you, they'll pull the knife out, stick you in the kidneys with it a couple of times and then hide the knife and casually walk away. I've seen it happen to a few of my friends. Screwdrivers are a common weapon for the same reason.

No idiots going to pull a knife and wave it about in your face, advertising the fact that he has one. If he does it means he probably wasn't planning on using it to begin with.

Hi Master Betty. I see when I say filipino weapons systems you associate with that some flashy systems or schools. I have been lucky and have only been exposed to some good filipino systems. I was thinking someone along the lines of Ray Floro who takes edged weapons defence from a basis of reality and not flashy student attracting methodoligies. See the below video for a sample of what I mean by good filipino based systems,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9xJejkInvE

As the topic was about martial arts in particular, i did not choose to mention awareness. Awareness can defeat most threats from eventuating into actual attacks. You raise some very good points and that is exactly why i specifically mentioned knife defence due to situations you have witnessed. They are dangerous, easy to use and common.

One more point, saying no-one flashes a knife around is incorrect. There is a possibility of every scenario. Muggings have seen this happen, and when the victim chooses to fight back, that flashy knife holder has then attacked the victim with it. Rare, but it does happen. There are no rules in knife use, particularly when young people are involved. It is this youth that makes them unpredictable.

[Rhizome]

I think the reason why MMA, muay thai and boxing are so popular is the amount of sparring and hands on stuff they do. So id say any of the above is good.

Doesnt mean any of the other more traditional arts are bad though and ive found many of them to be just as effective as the above.