Hair Pulling!

[Andy Murray]

Personally, I always have my hair too short to suffer from this affliction, but I was wondering how the different MA's dealt with this.

Are there any surefire ways of releasing a hair grab (preferably without loss of hair/scalp)?

[Spike]

One of the ones I got taught, I used to have long hair, was when someone grabbed your ponytail to simply turn round, since hair is quite a loose thing.
Another was to clamp their hand onto your head at use it to get them in a wrist lock, it can work although it does look vey silly.

[ladyhawk]

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=202

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I was taught the same head grab one, although not worrying about a wristlock, just to stop them yanking your scalp off. Another method is to step backwards and bend your knees, blocking up at the same time. It only really works if your hair's combed and their hand isn;t tangled in it though.

[Jim]

I go with the wristlock option, but it depends on how the person has your hair, etc.

[johndoch]

Someone grabbed my hair once in a fight to pull me down so he could kick my face. This guy was a fair bit larger than me and had a good grip of my hair but I told myself that i didnnt care how much hair i lost i was just going to get up and face my attacker. When I pulled up I think he realised he was nt going to get his kick and kicked anyway grazing my face. Anyway I finally got to face this guy and soon the fight was over. I everytime I touched my head after the fight I lost clumps of hair but luckily this wasnt noticible.

[pgm316]

I hate having my hair grabbed, loosing clumps of hair can't be a good thing. If there pulling hard I'd clamp my hand on top of theres. Instead of trying to wrench there hand off with a clump of hair while putting them in a wrist lock, I'd rather hit them, kick/punch or jab your fingers into there throat should make em let go! At least they can't hit you with that hand while there holding.

[johndoch]

hi pgm

its easy to say you would like to do this or that but its very hard to strike someone when you're being pulled around by your hair. But i agree that I would nt try a wrist lock either. My new defence against hair pulling is greasy hair gel. lol.

[pgm316]

I didn't say I'd like it Doc lol

Thats what I've practiced, I've never encountered hair pulling in a realsitic situation, so yes it is just theory. Hopefully it'll stay that way, I never thought of it as a big problem with having relatively short hair.

When being wrestled or whatever and you can't see there head, if possible, try and slide your hand up there arm. Because you'll find there head up there somewhere. I've done that to push a thumb in someones throat :)

[johndoch]

good point pgm

I was just thinkin maybe you could also hold the inside of the wrist and hit the outside of the elbow and try to do damage to the attackers elbow joint. this may work if you cant reach the throat. ??

[TkdWarrior]

umm normally i hav quite short hair so never had probs but locks still works, knee breaks, groin shots, bladder shot...u hav endless option... but yea first hold the wrist of ur grabber it will ease up tension a bit...
-TkdWarrior-

[Mike Flanagan]

I think the important thing is to stabilise the movement of your head. If someone has hold of your hair, they're probably going to be yanking your head around. Hence you're unbalanced and incapable of delivering a decisive counter. So the first thing is to grab their wrist/hand and stabilise it (they may still be able to move their hand but in doing so they're attempting to move your whole body, not just your head).

So if they're grabbing close to your scalp simply pin their hand to your head. If your hair is long and their grabbing at some distance from your scalp just grab their hand/wrist. From there you could use the other hand to pinch/nip their upper arm for a release (over the triceps tendon is good) or if you're strong to drive your thumb into the sub-axillary nerve plexus on the inner aspect of the upper arm. Or maybe hit them in the face and then strike down into the brachioradialis muscle on the forearm. Once the grip is loosened you should be set up for a wrist lock without too much difficulty.

For grabs close to the scalp I actually teach beginners to press down on the elbow joint with both of their forearms. This hopefully brings the assailant close enough for them to hit them with a combination of knees and elbows until a release is attained.

It may be that by the time you can react you are already being pulled strongly off-balance. Rather than resist a bigger, stronger attacker I prefer to go with it. From behind, you can pin the hand(s) to your head and turn into a low straddle stance. Standing up from that point will in itself begin to apply a wrist lock, so achieving a release. From in front, if the attacker is pulling me down to knee me in the face I suggest going down and forward to check their thighs with your forearms. Hug behind the knees and drive up and forwards to take them down.

On the other hand you could just do what I do and keep your hair too short to be grabbed.:)

Mike

[pgm316]

Originally posted by johndoch
good point pgm

I was just thinkin maybe you could also hold the inside of the wrist and hit the outside of the elbow and try to do damage to the attackers elbow joint. this may work if you cant reach the throat. ??


Sounds a good technique, never tried that one.

Something I often teach for grabs, strangles etc, and it could work in this situation unless you really getting dragged about alread. Is, as they've obviously lifted there arm/s up leaving their ribs unprotected, there wide open for a kick to the floating ribs. At this range its liley to be knee or shin, but you can still hit with plenty of power especially if you put your waist into it.

[TkdWarrior]

"I was just thinkin maybe you could also hold the inside of the wrist and hit the outside of the elbow and try to do damage to the attackers elbow joint. this may work if you cant reach the throat. ?? "
it works but it hav a bit of flaw...this wont' work if the arm is bent and the oppnt is bit powerfull.
wat u can do is go for inside of elbow joint in somewat hooking punchng style with palm hand(knife hand)
this will break the elbow nomatter how powerfull ur oppnt is...
-TkdWarrior-

[johndoch]

mike

Going towards the knees is dodgy not only the fact you may get kneed in the face you may also get an elbow to the back of the neck, also while youre driving up you may get thumbs etc in you eyes. what do you think?

[ladyhawk]

Somewhere in the archives is a thread I started some time ago and I think it's called ponytail escape. I have hair almost to my waist and it's a prime target in self defense and street techniques sessions. If the hand is close to the head I grab their hand to regain some control and turn in the direction of their hand while tucking my shoulder down some so that I can do just what Mike says and pinch (Okinawan Kiss) the inside of their arm. When they release I finish my turn to face them and depending on if I chose to release them I may still be holding their hand which opens them up for a variety of evil doings.

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
"I was just thinkin maybe you could also hold the inside of the wrist and hit the outside of the elbow and try to do damage to the attackers elbow joint. this may work if you cant reach the throat. ?? "
it works but it hav a bit of flaw...this wont' work if the arm is bent and the oppnt is bit powerfull.
wat u can do is go for inside of elbow joint in somewat hooking punchng style with palm hand(knife hand)
this will break the elbow nomatter how powerfull ur oppnt is...
-TkdWarrior-

I'm sceptical in either scenario that you would seriously damage the elbow. If you hit it from the inside will the elbow not simply by pushed outwards and up (due to shoulder rotation)? thus robbing the blow of power. From the outside, well I just think that elbows are a lot harder to break than people realise - I wouldn't fancy my chances of generating sufficient power whilst I was being yanked about.

Mike

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by pgm316

Something I often teach for grabs, strangles etc, and it could work in this situation unless you really getting dragged about alread. Is, as they've obviously lifted there arm/s up leaving their ribs unprotected, there wide open for a kick to the floating ribs. At this range its liley to be knee or shin, but you can still hit with plenty of power especially if you put your waist into it.

Sounds risky to me. Can you make this work when someone's yanking you around by the hair? Wouldn't you just end up on your arse? Why not just punch to the side of the ribcage exposed by their raised arm? Most people are quite sensitive to a single knuckle strike there.

Mike

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by johndoch
mike

Going towards the knees is dodgy not only the fact you may get kneed in the face you may also get an elbow to the back of the neck, also while youre driving up you may get thumbs etc in you eyes. what do you think?

Hi John, or Doc....whichever,

Sorry, I can't have made myself very clear. This is in a situation where you're already being pulled down into a knee to the face (or kick to the legs/groin). If I could deal with it before the grab was secured and I'd been pulled forward then yes, I'd stay upright and deal with it. But if I'm already being pulled forward by a strong assailant then I'll go forward with the pull, thus starting the process of unbalancing the assailant immediately (he will be expecting me to resist not to comply). My forearms are both held parallel in front of my face to absorb the impact of any incoming kick. As soon as I make contact with their legs (either due to a kick or my forearms reaching their thighs) I wrap my arms around the back of their knees. If there was any window of opportunity for them to change tack and attack with their elbows, or thumbs to their eyes it was during this part of the movement. But I think they will have been intent on their knee/kicking technique. Once I've got my arms around their legs its too late - they can immediately feel their balance is compromised, and I can immediately begin to totally destroy their balance. I suspect most untrained people will let go and try to break their fall with them. A good grappler may just take the fall and hang on to the head so that they still have control. But this leaves you on the floor with your hands close to their groin:), although you have to look out for their knees trying to connect with your head/ribs.

Any clearer? Convinced or still dubious?

Mike

[Big Bizz]

I saw a fight years ago where a big guy grabbed this little Scotish guy buy his ponytail as he was walking away from a drunken altercation.

The big guy pulled, the Scot followed the pull backwards ramming the back of his head and the attackers own arm into his own chest toppling them both over. The Scot ended up on the other guys chest so he just elbowed him in the solarplexis got up kicked him in the groin and that was all she wrote.

The Scottish guy was trained in a hybrid Karate style art called Zen Do Kai and was basically taught the move by one of his senior female belts.

Sean

[TkdWarrior]

mike u hav pointed out exact thing...actually if u grab the wrist(which u hav to, to ease out tension) the hitting will not be exactly hooking it's upward motion with a knife hand ...
the motion of shoulder will not effect ...because it won't hav area to move cause of ur grabbing the wrist and attacking... try drilling out few times...
and IMO the inner side of elbow is very weak and hav one of KO point so u hav a better chances of hitting n breaking the elbow...

-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

yup one thing more...if someone hav grabbed ur hair it means he's bit taller than u...cause the grabbing is useless from low height or almost same heiight..(unless ur oppnt is lame)
-TkdWarrior-

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
mike u hav pointed out exact thing...actually if u grab the wrist(which u hav to, to ease out tension) the hitting will not be exactly hooking it's upward motion with a knife hand ...
the motion of shoulder will not effect ...because it won't hav area to move cause of ur grabbing the wrist and attacking... try drilling out few times...
and IMO the inner side of elbow is very weak and hav one of KO point so u hav a better chances of hitting n breaking the elbow...

-TkdWarrior-

I agree that there are good targets to hit there. Striking across or upwards into the ulnar nerve in the upper arm can cause a great deal of pain and might be sufficient to end the altercation there, or at least to release the attacker's grip and distract him somewhat. But I still don't see how this will damage the elbow.

The only way I see the elbow being damaged is through hyperextension (ie. an arm-bar) in which case the target is the back of the elbow (the triceps tendon). However the angle of attack in this scenario would make an arm-bar very difficult to achieve. It sounds like an application of an enormous amount of brute force to me. I doubt I could do it to anything other than the weediest of assailants, and I rarely get attacked by people lighter and slimmer than myself.:(

But I still agree that your target area is a good choice, it will just have a different result that's all.

Mike

[TkdWarrior]

umm it's hard to explain in words... as i said earlier hair pulling is going to happen against taller oppnt(if u hav trained oppnt he'll never go for any target above the eye level) so when ur oppn't is taller his elbow is free(very little) but shoulders r locked(almost) that would create a set up for elbow breaking(yup u need force) if u r not in rite position to go for good power then medium powered blow will cause enuff pain to think twice before attackin again...
IMHO if u getting training for self defense then never let go any altercation upto that point where u hav to go for MAX... better put him into arm bar as he's aprroachin to ur hair(at least from front)
backwards would be little difficult...
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan


Sounds risky to me. Can you make this work when someone's yanking you around by the hair? Wouldn't you just end up on your arse? Why not just punch to the side of the ribcage exposed by their raised arm? Most people are quite sensitive to a single knuckle strike there.

Mike

I don't know if I could make it work while someone was yanking me around by the hair, in that situation a strike to the ribs or groin might work better as you mentioned.

Depends what you mean by yanking, in my scenario someone has just grabbed my hair, I’m not being yanked round as such yet. I would probably grab their hand to try and stop being yanked around, which leaves me with one less hand to strike with. And I believe a knee to their ribs is my most effective move. I’d like to think I could do it without ending up on my ass :)

[fluffydoc]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
as i said earlier hair pulling is going to happen against taller oppnt(if u hav trained oppnt he'll never go for any target above the eye level)

But realistically, your Saturday night special attacker is not a trained opponent in most cases. I'd be surprised if many trained opponents would use a hair grab to start a fight anyway. The only time my hair got grabbed in a fight, she was 6 inches smaller than me (but I guess it seemed the standard way to girlie fight).
You have to practice for all (likely) scenarios.

Cheers.

[TkdWarrior]

"But realistically, your Saturday night special attacker is not a trained opponent in most cases"
damn rite fluffy... but if ur oppnt is smaller u always can bust them easily because u hav height as a factor for u...and then ur MA knowledge(hopefully)...
it's pretty much unlikely(for smaller oppnt) that he grabs ur hair and try to knee ur head(i can see only MT guys do this very very effectively, even they too pull u down and as well as they jump all this happens in very close range combat)...
anyways in any case as i said earlier if u r training for self defense and ur oppnt reaches ur hair easily that too from front then ur tactics/styles need some good work out...
-TkdWarrior-

[fluffydoc]

Also consider that you may be sitting/ bending (like to get in a car) or that you get attacked from behind (or a combination of all).

[pgm316]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
[B
anyways in any case as i said earlier if u r training for self defense and ur oppnt reaches ur hair easily that too from front then ur tactics/styles need some good work out...
-TkdWarrior- [/B]

I'm sure there's many times throughout the day when we all let our guard down, you could be doing something that you do every day, so you become complacent! You might be shopping or filling your car with fuel, do you watch your back at all times?

Somebody grabbed my head/hair from behind Friday night when I was out drinking, I’d probably drank too much as usual. But even then I didn’t feel particularly threatened. Which turned out to be a good thing because it was just a friend of mine playing around. But I could have been in a bad situation, however I don’t go out alone!

[TkdWarrior]

hmm i agree with u pgm ...
may be u skeptic kind and u don't belive me wat i m saying but i hav found my intuition my gut feeling or my sixth sense working all the time... even my gf tries her hard to scare the hell outta me or keep checkin my MA practice ;) every now n then kickin my nutts off(dunno why gls find this funny??)...
and i think i hav found myself dealing with confrontations very much with the help of my gut feeling uptill now i was not ditched by it... :)
most of time u can sense it coming...if u understand wat i mean
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

I agree with you, I think there's a lot to be said for gut feeling!

Maybe thats why I felt safe in that situation. Other times I've had a bad feeling about the place I've been in and the people there, I think you pick up subconsciously on the atmosphere/vibe of a place without being able to pinpoint any one thing.

Sixth sense is another strange thing, I often turn my head and look in a certain direction for no reason to find someone looking at me. Maybe it was just chance, but it seems to happen a lot and it feels pretty weird!

[wayofthedragon]

He He:D I shave my head bald. My lover likes it that way;)

[Dragon_Princess]

which lover?

[wayofthedragon]

actually, i've heard from many that I look sexier with my head shaved. But I only shave it for you princess to answer your questions

[Dragon_Princess]

oh. cool. guess u dont have 2 anymore.

[wayofthedragon]

LOL whats this:D!!!

Back to hair pulling please;)

[STASH]

I like to shave my head every now and then too. Any other skinheads out there? lol

[Darzeka]

I have my hair short mos tof the time but when it is a bit longer and there is something to grab I can just grab the wrist in a striking motion upwards and rip it off (my hair is real slippery) and then step in for a knee hook kick.

I got taught to also interlace my fingers over the hand and squeeze real hard on the knuckles forcing the hand to release then rotate it off to one side and then go for a knee hook to the ribs.

I've had a look at using strikes for the escape but I've found that you can't really get a good shot in to anywhere on the legs, ribs or armpit (nothing that couldn't be ignored anyway).
The grab and squeeze forces the hand to release and cuases quite a bit of pain as well. From here many things could be done, a throw, takedown, a lock or the knee I referred earlier.

Anyway hair pulling doesn't seem to hurt me.

[Cain]

Man this discussion really scares the living crap outta me,I am off to the barber's to shave my head.
Cain

[Freeform]

Never, ever, intwine your fingers! Theres a high chance you'll end up dislocating your own fingers!!!

If your clamping down on the offending hand, place one hand over the other!

I personally keep my hair very short for this specific reason, especially as a doorman, I can't afford for people to even THINK of doing that to me.

Col

[Cain]

Hmm.....I kinda thought of a foolproof way.....wear a turban which those punk guys use and tie it all around your skull :D but they will still get hold of your bodily hair though.......[UGH!!!]
|Cain|

[Sonshu]

Grab the back of there neck in a cupping action and head butt them - pull them in - that will work and its really quick!

Also having your hair pulled is like most pressure points - a pain that annoys rather than hurts -

I would say in a real situation the adrenelin will see you through and no one loses a fight to having there hair pulled - strike back !

Sonshu