General training structure for powertraining & fitness

[Calipt]

Hi,

I doing Ju Jitsu & Karate and I'm planning to start a regular gym visit, something I've never really done before. I've always played basketball in my younger years so my stamina was great, but now....

I'm also planning it because i hate sitting at home in the evening so I need something to do during my off-days of training. I'm a pretty slim guy and i've always wanted to be a bit more muscular. But I also want to combine it with stamina training a bit.

I'm wondering if I should just go to a local gym and ask for advice for a special martial-art workout program for powertraining and fitness (if there are any special programs) or should I ask it here?

I'm totally unexperienced if it comes to gym visits.

Also, is it worth doing stamina/fitness training in a gym aswell, or should I stick with powertraining only? I ask because I love running in a local park here where everyone runs/jogs.

I'm asking here so I can possibly compare different opinions, which they will also present me in the gym.
Any opinions and tips about nutrition is also welcome. Like I said, I'm a newbie workout-related.

[Calipt]

A quick self-reply.

If people rather advise me a good work out program to do at home, without special equipment, and basicly don't 'waste' a monthly fee in the gym, feel free to do so :)

[sgamma01]

I'm a strength and conditioning coach for a minor league baseball team. I also have studied jiu jitsu for the past 19 years. I would suggest a complex training program. Basically super - setting a basic strength move, directly followed by a plyometric or explosive power movement. Studies have shown that having a power movement follow a strength movement increase the neural activity and sensitivity of the nervous system and a better power performance. I would also suggest doing movements that stress stabilization because a joint will only produce enough power as the joint stability allows.

For more info you can check out: defensetecsolutions.com I have a dvd I made that is for explosive power. If you have questions you can contact me through that website.

Hope this helps. Good Luck and keep working!

Stephen Gamma
CSCS

[Calipt]

So I went to check out a gym, not too crouded & commercialized. An ideal place for me. I got a tour around and explanations of all the materials.

Only thing is, the owner/instructor could not find a program on his PC to follow for me. I asked for a typical martial arts /judo/jj program, he thought he had one but couldn't find it.

He asked me to ask my JJ instructors what needs to be focussed on so he could create one for me.

So I'm not sure what I should give him (i'm not doing competitions so weight doesn't matter). As mentioned before, explosivity, arms, shoulders, back, abs, legs, to be honest I want to train everything....

[Killa_Gorillas]

I do a 5x5 routine based around compound lifts like squats, deadlifts, clean & press, bent row and bench.

I saw real increase in my functional strength doing this and have just got back into it after a long hiatus from lifting due to a martial arts related injury. After 2 weeks back into the programme my strength is almost up to what it was before I stopped. :cool:

[sgamma01]

Keep in mind that Strength is different than Power and your training should mirror that. I would suggest starting with a 4 week program that stress stability and strength. From here you can progress on to more explosive, power based exercises. For fighting, rotational power is obviously important. However, so is rotational stability, so while medicine ball rotational tosses, medicine ball slams, and chop n lifts, are important, exercises like pointers, ab wheel, etc. will stress that rotational stability, which if lacks, will decrease force output.
If your gym has a personal trainer, they should be qualified enough to give you a program. If they can't and must search the internet for a program to " teach" you, I would seek help elsewhere.

Just my Opinion.

Stephen
CSCS
www.Defensetecsolutions.com

[iammartialarts]

I do a 5x5 routine based around compound lifts like squats, deadlifts, clean & press, bent row and bench.

I saw real increase in my functional strength doing this and have just got back into it after a long hiatus from lifting due to a martial arts related injury. After 2 weeks back into the programme my strength is almost up to what it was before I stopped. :cool:

I definitely agree with this, as a beginner, you should do something to get your body used to it, if you want more size, a little less function, id consider doing the baic compound lifts mentioned abouve 4 sets of 8 repetitions, split up half one day, half the other, and after the compound movement do 1 isolation movement for that body part.

After your body starts getting used to this you can start doing other forms of training that are more intense and sport specific.

[Knight_Errant]

At this point, I usually like to tempt people with a little kool aid:
http://www.crossfit.com

If I spam the entire newbie section with that, I'm going to be in trouble, but it's OK every so often. They should pay me commission.

[KennedySensei]

I'll second the CrossFit. The Canadian Forces has started using it quite a bit for their PT, it's a butt kicker AND it works!

[Ranzan]

Knight beat me to it. Cross fit is amazing and is pretty much exactly what you want.

[Kuma]

I'll go against the grain and recommend Martin Rooney and his Training For Warriors template: one upper body day, one lower body day, and 1-2 heavy cardio/circuit days. (Note that this template is similar to Stickgrappler's and many others, Rooney's is just the most commonly known right now).

Twice a week ST is pretty good for MAists in general.

[iammartialarts]

one really cool guy to look into is pavel author of naked warrior and a few others, for generating power, its basically russian power lifting which is differnt than american power lifting which is more like absolute strength. (according to the NSCA anyways) if you follow their rep and rest ranges.

[Kuma]

one really cool guy to look into is pavel author of naked warrior and a few others, for generating power, its basically russian power lifting which is differnt than american power lifting which is more like absolute strength. (according to the NSCA anyways) if you follow their rep and rest ranges.

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/WTF/1/WTF-Dog.jpg

Do you even have any experience powerlifting? If you did, then you would know this statement is silly.

It's also nothing new or revolutionary, just a rehash of an old training approach.

[iammartialarts]

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/WTF/1/WTF-Dog.jpg

Do you even have any experience powerlifting? If you did, then you would know this statement is silly.

It's also nothing new or revolutionary, just a rehash of an old training approach.

its revolutionary in my opinion because almost everybody i see is doing workouts from the famed bodybuilding.com.... and they get most of there training ideas from there as well, ok if your just working out for size and looks i guess..


and yah 2 of my friends were powerlifters and i did workouts with them, what i said is according to the national strength and conditioning association. do you really have to counter every single thing i say lol <Personal atack removed>

[Patrick Smith]

Maybe you could try DeFranco's Westside for Skinnny Bastards program: http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html

The one thing I would keep in mind about the 5x5 program (or for that matter any program) is that you should change the rep range every four weeks. The body adapts to the rep range before everything else, so you need consistently change it to provoke further growth! :)

If you want to learn the real dense information about program design, try reading:

1. The Science of Sports Training - Tom Kurz
2. The Professional Fitness Coach Program Design Bible - Alwyn Cosgrove (alwyncosgrove.com)

[Kuma]

and yah 2 of my friends were powerlifters and i did workouts with them, what i said is according to the national strength and conditioning association. do you really have to counter every single thing i say lol<Personal attack removed>

I counter what you say because it's ridiculous. As far as experience, I have done powerlifting competitions and am an amateur strongman competitor. My wife has numerous raw records in her weight class and before her pregnancy was one of the top 20 female powerlifters in the world.

So the NSCA says there's two different types of powerlifting, or is it just something you said? Because there is a difference. And it's only revolutionary because you don't know much about what you're talking about (as usual). There's nothing new in weight training that hasn't been done before.

[Stuart H]

Barber, you know as much about powerlifting as you do about China and Belgian house prices.

[iammartialarts]

I counter what you say because it's ridiculous. As far as experience, I have done powerlifting competitions and am an amateur strongman competitor. My wife has numerous raw records in her weight class and before her pregnancy was one of the top 20 female powerlifters in the world.

So the NSCA says there's two different types of powerlifting, or is it just something you said? Because there is a difference. And it's only revolutionary because you don't know much about what you're talking about (as usual). There's nothing new in weight training that hasn't been done before.

the nsca

or is that not a conservative enough source for you?
would you rather me have gotten the info from the Food and Drug Administration or the national religious leadership roundtable

how many reps per set do u usally do how many sets, how long do u rest between sets, how many different exercises per workout?

[iammartialarts]

The one thing I would keep in mind about the 5x5 program (or for that matter any program) is that you should change the rep range every four weeks. The body adapts to the rep range before everything else, so you need consistently change it to provoke further growth! :)
)


there is no such thing as muscle confusion

[Patrick Smith]

there is no such thing as muscle confusion

Did I mention muscle confusion? :p

[Kuma]

the nsca

Got proof of that? Because I seriously doubt that.

or is that not a conservative enough source for you?
would you rather me have gotten the info from the Food and Drug Administration or the national religious leadership roundtable

I'd have rather you actually read about what you were talking about first, rather than posting your opinion on it.

how many reps per set do u usally do how many sets, how long do u rest between sets, how many different exercises per workout?

Depends entirely on what you're training for.

[Patrick Smith]

Depends entirely on what you're training for.

Right, although I've read that most people get the best results when they mix the rep range up (around every 3-4 weeks) and don't focus too much on one area. Nonlinear periodization is usually the best type for beginner through intermediate athletes. A good example of Nonlinear periodization is if you were doing a 16 week training program (16 weeks would divide evenly into 4 months/phases) you could set the first phase to 12-15 reps, next phase to 8-10, next phase to 10-12, next phase to 6-8. That way you kind of get the best of both worlds and it's a simple system. Undulated periodization is probably best for higher level athletes, though, because it alternates reps every workout. Like, Monday - 15 reps, Wednesday - 5 reps, Friday - 10 reps.

[iammartialarts]

Depends entirely on what you're training for.


What do YOU do?

[Kuma]

Right, although I've read that most people get the best results when they mix the rep range up (around every 3-4 weeks) and don't focus too much on one area. Nonlinear periodization is usually the best type for beginner through intermediate athletes. A good example of Nonlinear periodization is if you were doing a 16 week training program (16 weeks would divide evenly into 4 months/phases) you could set the first phase to 12-15 reps, next phase to 8-10, next phase to 10-12, next phase to 6-8. That way you kind of get the best of both worlds and it's a simple system. Undulated periodization is probably best for higher level athletes, though, because it alternates reps every workout. Like, Monday - 15 reps, Wednesday - 5 reps, Friday - 10 reps.

There's definitely scientific basis for it, and it can be an effective method of training.

But so can training on low reps for multiple sets. Or one all-out high rep "death" set. Or any other number of rep schemes.

Effective strength training boils down to just a few principles in the long run: hard work, consistency, hard work, rest, progressive resistance, and hard work.

[Kuma]

What do YOU do?

I answered this just a few posts ago. 8, to be exact.

[seiken steve]

(you said hard work more than once, is hard work importand?)

[Patrick Smith]

There's definitely scientific basis for it, and it can be an effective method of training.

But so can training on low reps for multiple sets. Or one all-out high rep "death" set. Or any other number of rep schemes.

Effective strength training boils down to just a few principles in the long run: hard work, consistency, hard work, rest, progressive resistance, and hard work.

That's true, Kuma. I didn't mean to imply that higher reps was better. High set, low rep, high weight/near max weight definitely is more effective for increasing strength/muscle density. We could use undulated periodization with such low reps too. We need to go into the 5-8 hypertrophy range sometimes too, because we as martial artists need muscle mass (not too much but some) to protect our bodies from powerful strikes and impacts. For example:

WK1
D1 - 1-3
D2 - 4-6
D3 - 2-4

WK2
D1 - 1-3
D2 - 5-8
D3 - 2-4

I think this is one of the best ways to maintain your strength AND muscle mass without stagnation. The hard thing about using undulated periodization is that you have to have a lot of experience with loads, because they change every workout. Undulated periodization is hard to do and can be hard to progress with for less then advanced lifters. Personally, I prefer nonlinear periodization because it's simpler and it tends to be most effective for beginner/intermediate.

[Patrick Smith]

To Calipt:

Build your own routine with the following information (unless you want to spend money buying a few program designing manuals/books):

1. Use compound exercises
• Squats
• Deadlifts
• Overhead press
• Pull ups/chin ups
• Dips
• Lunges
• Core (stability and rotation work)

2. Do 2-3 FULL BODY workouts a week with at least 24-48 hours between them
I hate witty comments and little sayings, but this one is true. Training doesn't make you better. Recovering from training does. Don't ever do a workout if you're sore.

3. Switch the rep range every 3-4 weeks.
This is optional, but I suggest it. First 4 weeks = 8-10. Second 4 weeks = 4-6. Third 4 weeks = 10-12. Fourth 4 weeks = 6-8. If you want to bring the rep range lower, just drop all the numbers down by two or so. It doesn't really matter as long as you're changing the stimulis.

Or you can just go by the 5x5 program. Five sets of 5 reps.

4. Drink water or some sort of sports drink before, during, and after your workout
Especially if you work in a closed up area and it's hot. Try putting a fan in too.

Good luck, you have all you need to get started.

[Patrick Smith]

Haha! I've learned so much since I wrote that post. :D