New weights routine

[muay-thai-boy]

Hey, my current goal is to gain size and strength and I'm working this around my Muay Thai which I'm doing 3 times a week. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Back:
Dead-lifts: 5 x 5
Wide Grip Chins 4 x Max
Dumbbell Rows 4 x 10
Seated Row 3 x 12-15

Chest & Shoulders:
Smith Machine Bench 4 x 6
Dumbbell Incline Press 4 x 8
Incline/Flat Dumbbell Flies 4 x 12
Dips 4 x Max
Overhead Bar Bell Shoulder Press 4 x 6
Seated Dumbbell Press 4 x 8
Lat Raises 3 x 12 15

Biceps & Triceps
Barbell Curls 4 x 6
Close Grip Bench 4 x 6
Dumbbell Curls 4 x 10
Triceps Pushdown 4 x 10
Preacher Curls 4 x 10
Skull Crushers 4 x 10

Legs
Squats 4 x 6-8
Leg Press 4 x 12-15
Calf Raises 4 x 10
Leg Extension 3 x 12
Hack Squat 3 x 12

[slipthejab]

You did say you were going for size and strength. Strength I can understand but if you're taking MT seriously... size may not be what you're looking for. As the fights are weight based you want to come into it right below the weight you normally walk around at. Putting on a lot of size is going to put you in a bad spot. Guys who naturally walk around at say 200 will cut to 190 or lighter. If you walk around at 185 or 190 and come up to 200 you are in for a world of hurt.

Then again if the size is merely for aesthetics then by all means - I can't knock someone for want to look good as well. But in general beach-guns and Muay Thai are a not so efficient combo.

Back:
Dead-lifts: 5 x 5
Wide Grip Chins 4 x Max
Dumbbell Rows 4 x 10
Seated Row 3 x 12-15

Example of how to compound some of these movments:
Press up with a renegade row
Wide grip chin drop to press up or thruster
Press up followed by bent over row with curl and overhead press


Chest & Shoulders:
Smith Machine Bench 4 x 6
Dumbbell Incline Press 4 x 8
Incline/Flat Dumbbell Flies 4 x 12
Dips 4 x Max
Overhead Bar Bell Shoulder Press 4 x 6
Seated Dumbbell Press 4 x 8
Lat Raises 3 x 12 15

Smith Machine is crap - get rid of it. Fixed path of motion that is completely unnatural, removes a balance and core stabilization element... Fitness gym garbage.
Example off how to improve some of this:
DB single sided incline or flat bench press
Dips followed by crunching knees to chest from top of dip
Squat to forearm curl to overhead press
T-press ups

Biceps & Triceps
Barbell Curls 4 x 6
Close Grip Bench 4 x 6
Dumbbell Curls 4 x 10
Triceps Pushdown 4 x 10
Preacher Curls 4 x 10
Skull Crushers 4 x 10

Example off how to improve some of this:

Experiment with different types of tension for curl motion. Elastic bands, cable machine, sand bag etc.

Curl with a slight sway backwards (a la PTA Global/Rodney Corn)
Lunge with curl from opposite of forward leg
Standing cable skull crusher movement at the end of a forward lunge
Pull ups palm facing towards you - experiment with different hand positions
Pull ups palm facing towards you - uneven hands

Legs
Squats 4 x 6-8
Leg Press 4 x 12-15
Calf Raises 4 x 10
Leg Extension 3 x 12
Hack Squat 3 x 12

Example off how to improve some of this:
Rotational Plate Squats
Cable/Med ball/DB wood choppers hi-to-low AND lo-to-hi
DB squats with overhead press
Bulgarian Split squats
Squats on BOSU ball
Squat to overhead press to calf extenstion
Explosive DB jump squats
Explosive bodyweight Buglarian split squats
Hamstring curls laying flat on floor using friend to provide resistance in both directions.

Overall the workout seems somewhat based on a body building workout in that it breaks out each of the parts of the body. There is very little integration of muscle groups or kinetic chains.

Compound movements are great for strength training for Muay Thai as 99% of what you do in MT is going to be a compound movement starting from the ground up.

You can also take a look at movements like Turkish get ups, Squat hops, Lateral hops, lunge to forward knee strike, bag hangs, farmer walks, bag rips, sand bag swinging, DB swinging, Kettlebell swinging. You will also want to work in tons of rotational movements as much of your power in Muay Thai is going to be rotational based... core stability is a must as well... so planks need to be on your list.

I've found that any of the snatch type movements have a fair bit of carry over for explosiveness and overall conditioning... especially when done explosively they really hit the anaerobic conditioning.

If you in Muay Thai... you really NEED TO condition your rotator cuffs... via external rotations... with very light DBs's or elastic bands. Ignore at your the condition of your rotator cuffs at your own risk.

Hope that helps if you need further explanation on the exercise mentioned above feel free to ask.

[muay-thai-boy]

slipthejab, firstly thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth analysis, all the information you've given me has been very interesting to read.

Your correct about the body building influence of my program, it was written by a friend of mine who is an avid body builder, also I will admit I have been training for somewhat of an aesthetic outcome. I've definitely taken on board your comments about training to complement my Muay Thai, after reading your post I feel it would be counter productive to continue training in such a isolation focused manner.

Would you recommend that I scrap the isolation movements from my program altogether or use them in conjunction with more compound movements, also what sort of set & rep numbers should I be doing for these sorts of exercises?

You mentioned that I shouldn't be conditioning my rotator cuffs via external rotations, what sort of exercises should I avoid?

cheers

[slipthejab]

Your correct about the body building influence of my program, it was written by a friend of mine who is an avid body builder, also I will admit I have been training for somewhat of an aesthetic outcome.

Yep I suspected as much. Your friend will have a very different goal in mind than you do. Bodybuilders go for a specific type of hypertrophy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy... which is very different from the type of results you want for conditioning related to combat sports.

Of course it never hurts to look good... when you look good you feel good generally... but just don't let your good looks start writing checks your body can't cash. Going into Muay Thai and gunning for aesthetics based on bodybuilding is angling towards that.

I've definitely taken on board your comments about training to complement my Muay Thai, after reading your post I feel it would be counter productive to continue training in such a isolation focused manner.

Would you recommend that I scrap the isolation movements from my program altogether or use them in conjunction with more compound movements, also what sort of set & rep numbers should I be doing for these sorts of exercises?

One thing you have to remember it takes constant maintenance to maintain a good amount of muscle mass if you are seriously training Muay Thai. Muay Thai will cut all but the most genetically superb specimens right down to size. It's a muscular endurance sport by and large... and one that is predominately anaerobic in nature.

I don't think you have to scrap isolation all together... but compound movements should predominate in your workout. It's nice to have variety so for example even I will throw a set of tricep cable presses in every now and then... it just feels good. Not so sure that it really ever contributes all that much to my Muay Thai... but it feels good. However... if MT is the goal make the majority of weights workouts specific to the sport you are playing.

For sets and reps for a workout of the type I suggested above I normally go for about 3 sets of 8-12 reps depending on how I feel. I usually move up in weight and come down in reps. Perfect technique and form for just about every movement. And then once in a while I like to do big blowouts where I'm getting pretty close to my body weight up on my back or shoulder with several powerbags or sandbags strapped together. These blow outs are all out intense over the top exertion... on these form can suffer because you are lifting heavy, awkard object... but even at that... watch that lower back and don't put those shoulders into anything too crazy on the overhead angles.

Try for 3 sets of 8-12 reps and play with it. Sometimes I'm stoked and 8 reps just isn't enough so I will either knock out more up up the weight.

You mentioned that I shouldn't be conditioning my rotator cuffs via external rotations, what sort of exercises should I avoid?

My mistake. That was poorly worded... BY ALL MEANS YOU SHOULD BE CONDITIONING YOUR ROTATOR CUFFS WITH EXERCISES LIKE HI REP LOW WEIGHT EXTERNAL ROTATIONS!!!

I can't stress this enough. If you don't PRE-habilitate those shoulder you will have to RE-habilitate them. Do it before... or once you're injured you could be stuck doing it after.

Hope that helps clear that up. :hat:

[muay-thai-boy]

I've been doing some of these exercises at the gym this week, its a welcome change from the kind of stuff I was doing before, I'm especially loving the renegade rows and its good to know that I'm doing workouts that are helping my MT not hindering it. I'm sore in ways I never imagined I could be so it must be working, anyways thanks again mate

[slipthejab]

I've been doing some of these exercises at the gym this week, its a welcome change from the kind of stuff I was doing before, I'm especially loving the renegade rows and its good to know that I'm doing workouts that are helping my MT not hindering it. I'm sore in ways I never imagined I could be so it must be working, anyways thanks again mate

Ah good stuff, nice to know someone actually takes some advice to heart. I get a big kick out of showing people new movements when I train. It's always cool to see someone work muscles they didn't know they had or break down stale movement patterns.

Keep a log of what you do and then you can start to track gains and you can rotate in new movements when you start to get bored of certain ones or you want some variety.

MAP journals are pretty cool for that on this site. It's down at the moment but should be back up shortly.


:saz:

I usually post every few days what I'm working through - and curiously I always post about what I ate. lol

[Kuma]

Just don't forget that training is only one of the three things you need for size and strength. Rest is the number one priority, with nutrition and training tied for second. Personally, I feel most martial artists would be just fine with training two times a week, one lower body day and one upper body day with accessory exercises for each, a "finisher" (a fun exercise you do to work yourself into the ground), and some abs, grip, and/or neck work. This still leaves you plenty of time for your MA training and gives you plenty of days of rest.