Kunoichi

[cloudgodd]

anyone have any information on kunoichi? I mean other than they were female ninja? Like some good links or sugestions on books?

[ns_oni]

Ninpo Secrets, the book by Tanemura has a section on kunoichi.

[graf12]

History and Tradition by Hatsumi Sensei

[anomalousNIN]

Find out through meditation, not from books made by the people who are not from the families who started this art. Yes, basically it is a female Shinobi, but one who didn't do the fighting, she usually gathered info by using her womanly charms against the 'Manly' and honorable Samurai(or other opponents). Try to meditate on the subject for more info.

[Brad Ellin]

Originally posted by anomalousNIN
Find out through meditation, not from books made by the people who are not from the families who started this art. Yes, basically it is a female Shinobi, but one who didn't do the fighting, she usually gathered info by using her womanly charms against the 'Manly' and honorable Samurai(or other opponents). Try to meditate on the subject for more info.

How will meditating on a subject give you the answers? Without education and knowledge meditation is just breathing. If I said I wanted to learn accounting or auto mechanics, would you tell me to go to school? Proper research like the original poster is trying to do, combined with gained knowledge, and then meditation, will allow one to see what they have missed and gain further insight. It won't give them answers. I think Hatsumi and Tanemura are more than qualified to write about kunoichi, both historical and modern day, and their books would be an excellent place to start. I also recommend Stephen Hayes' books, try Mystic Arts of The Ninja. And try telling a kunoichi that she doesn't fight.... I hope your medical insurance is up to date :D

[ns_oni]

agreed 100% Kurohana

[anomalousNIN]

True...but , if you believe anything is possible then it is...also, you have no proof that what you say is true...not saying that it couldn't be...just saying that maybe, you should look away from the normal type thinking...for instance...the people you have mentioned, can you truthfully say to anyones' face that you know their actual history? Not saying you can't or that you are wrong...but remember to have an open mind about things...but thanks for your own insight, they shall be added to my experience :)

[anomalousNIN]

Oh...and if I said that a kunoichi didn't fight then I am mistaken...sorry, because what I meant to say was that she was usually used for gathering info, otherwise it would've been somewhat of a waste of skill if she didn't use it to defend herself...sorry again, it was late when I posted that... :)

[Brad Ellin]

Well, considering that Ninjutsu (or the Shinobi, as you refer to them) are Japanese and the Japanese are very meticulous about record keeping and Hatsumi has the scrolls and has been granted Menkyo from Takamatsu... well, just do a little research (my favorite phrase by the way). You'll see that Hatsumi's background is very well documented.
I have an open mind, always ready listen to opposing points of view and willing to learn from anyone. After all, everyone can and should be a "teacher". Instead of asking for proof they are what they say, show me proof they are not. See, we could go round and round with this. Are you Japanese? Do you study Japanese history and culture? The Ninja (Shinobi) were historically Japanese, not Chinese. Knowing Gung Fu and trying to be a Shinobi does not make you one. I'm not knocking GF, but, it is not taijutsu. Understanding of taijutsu is essentially to understanding Ninjutsu. There are many layers, flavors and subtleties of taijutsu, just as there are the body, mind and heart. Understanding taijutsu helps unlock the door to understanding. Oh, and it does help to meditate on that. But, not until you gain a basic understanding and then more knowledge and then more knowledge....

Curious, what is your background in Ninjutsu?

[47Ronin]

It was to my understanding that females did more killing than males. Some one correct me???

[totality]

consider yourself corrected.

[47Ronin]

Thanks!

[totality]

don't mention it...ever again.

[47Ronin]

Why

[anomalousNIN]

To tell you the truth, the Moshuh Nanren were probably some of the influence of the Shibobi, maybe most, especially since Japan had martial arts coming from China. By the way, about the Shinobi, Ninja is commonly used term to discribe anyone who used stealthy burglar tactics, Shinobi rarely burglarized...and Taijutsu isn't one martial art style, it is any and every style you practice, Taijustsu means way of the body...sorry that you guys are confused by my history of the Shinobi(including Kunoichi), because I just rushed in and started to talk, but I gave you what I believe and it is interesting to read your comments...thank you all, I appreciate it :)

[Kagebushi]

Taijutsu may mean way of the body (art of the body is more accurate, Taido would be way of the body, but thats beside the point) , but Taijutsu IS a specific fighting art. it teaches to use the most effective technique to stop your opponent. Not all MAs do that. There are huge differences between Taekwondo, tai chi, Kung fu, judo, jujutsu, and taijutsu. When was the last time you saw any of these arts condone throwing sand into your opponents eyes? even the ninja form of kenjutsu is different from the samurai style. since the blades were usually duller and cheaper, they used more dragging cuts and stabs. My point is that while taijutsu teaches any technique that is effective, it is a separate art from all the others

[Tono-san]

But if you think about it, if you combine all of the techniques and movements, you would get free movement, right? Oh, Kagebushi, does your name mean Dark Warrior, or close too it?

[Kagebushi]

"shadow warrior" and yeah it is kinda like free movement, but it emphasizes more natural movement and letting your body move the way its supposed to, rather than teaching it how to move like ther MAs do Maasaki Hatsumi once said "Your body knows how to move, if you just let it" that isnt the exact wording, but ill edit it in as soon as i find it. "The body knows how to move if we let it" is the exact wording

[Tono-san]

That is what I sort of meant by free movement...but thanks for clearing that up

[Kagebushi]

oh sorry:D

[Brad Ellin]

Originally posted by anomalousNIN
To tell you the truth, the Moshuh Nanren were probably some of the influence of the Shibobi, maybe most, especially since Japan had martial arts coming from China. By the way, about the Shinobi, Ninja is commonly used term to discribe anyone who used stealthy burglar tactics, Shinobi rarely burglarized...and Taijutsu isn't one martial art style, it is any and every style you practice, Taijustsu means way of the body...sorry that you guys are confused by my history of the Shinobi(including Kunoichi), because I just rushed in and started to talk, but I gave you what I believe and it is interesting to read your comments...thank you all, I appreciate it :)
What are the "Moshuh Nanren"? Never heard of them. And while yes, Chinese arts did influence Ninjutsu, Ninjutsu is a Japanese art. Studying Gung Fu, nope. Doesn't make you a Ninja or a Shinobi, just because you want it to. Nowadays (thank you Hollywood), you are right, Ninja is commonly used to describe thieves and assassins. Shinobi, isn't because it is not a familiar term to most Americans. But, Shinobi and Ninja mean the same thing.
Taijutsu means "the art of using the body", but like all things Japanese, it's deifinitions go much deeper than the mere word. I would have to define it a bit more like "the art of using the body with complete freedom" and even that just scratches the surface. Knowing TKD or boxing, while they are ways of using the body, they are not taijutsu. They encompass a set of rigid rules for where, how high (or low) you can kick, punch, specific ways of punching, etc.. taijutsu does away with these things and teaches you to master the movement of your body and how to use that to your advantage.
Make sense?

[cloudgodd]

is it just me or does anomalousNIN sound a lot like ashida kim? just wondering?

[whitecrane]

I'm glad someone raised the question of the Moshuh Nanren. I'm studying shadow arts at the moment alongside kung fu, and I have been asked to research into the Moshuh Nanren. I have a vague notion that they are 'mountain devils' with the classical ninja cloven feet etc but there is very little info on them to be found and I can't seperate myth from fact. can anyone help out?

[snake_plisskin]

Never heard of the Moshuh Nanren...as I actually teachresearch at the university level, my first questions always revolve around that which is not answered. Firstly, whitecrane: You mention you have been asked to research the Moshuh Nanren. Asked by whom? How would you describe the shadow arts you mention--in other words, are they a set of physical techniques, a philosophy, breathing exercises to hide or "draw in" your aura, or something else?

To anomolousNIN: Would you please explain in a clearly-stated, definitive fashion (a standard Process Analysis) how a person ruminating upon a topic that he or she knows absolutely nothing about would somehow manage, barring extrasensory perception or incredibly powerful remote viewing capabilities, to learn about ku-no-ichi, or any other topic, for that matter?

In other words, of the hundreds of English as a Second Language students I've taught how to read and write English, I have yet to have one student--whether from Syria, Japan, China, Peru, Israel, Hungary, Ukraine, Sierra Leone, or Kenya--be able to spontaneously grasp the nuances of the English language by simply meditating, praying, hoping, wishing, thinking, or concentrating hard on the subject. Perhaps the teaching pedagogy of the entire world is somehow at fault for their inability to suddenly gain crazy wisdom.

However, you do make a nice point about "not knowing who someone is". Heck, I've known him all my life, but I still feel that, over three decades since I've been born, I barely even know my father. Guess I'll just have to take his word for it, and trust that what he tells me he did when he was "my age" through the years is the truth.

OH! kunoichi: Try reading Steven Hayes' fourth book (Ninja Vol. 4), or Glenn Morris' Shadow Strategies, for some additional snippets of information.

[dragon_bunny]

i read that the name means 9 and 1 which is a reference to the fact women have an extra 'hole' than men.. *ahem* could be just bull thou..

[Brad Ellin]

The only reference I can find to the Moshuh Nanren is a book by Dr. Haha Lung. Which is a pen name for some white guy that wrote Street Ninja. Both books are utter trash. I think it was something invented by this person to sound all mystical and mysterious. Serious. No one else has heard of them, why only this guy? Especially if the are they "fore runners of the Japanese Ninja"?

[Peaceful Tiger]

Haha?, that's a funny name :D

[whitecrane]

When I say shadow arts, it is because there isn't, unfortunately, a blanket explanation for what I am studying. It is based around fight psychology, physiology and body weakness and to a certain extent stealth tactics. im pretty sure the moshuh exist i think they just kinda disappeared from knowledge, since no one is likely to have written much about them.

[George Kohler]

Taijutsu means "the art of using the body", but like all things Japanese, it's deifinitions go much deeper than the mere word. I would have to define it a bit more like "the art of using the body with complete freedom" and even that just scratches the surface. Knowing TKD or boxing, while they are ways of using the body, they are not taijutsu. They encompass a set of rigid rules for where, how high (or low) you can kick, punch, specific ways of punching, etc.. taijutsu does away with these things and teaches you to master the movement of your body and how to use that to your advantage.
Make sense?

Just for clarification, the word "taijutsu" is not the sole ownership (propriety) of the x-kan. Other MA schools also use this term (Asayama Ichiden-ryu, Yagyu Shingan-ryu, Aikido, Ueno-den Shinden Fudo-ryu , and Nagao-ryu to name a few). This term can also be used to describe body movements for other activities. For example, when swinging a baseball bat or when swinging a golf club, each person uses their "taijutsu" to accomplish their goal. By saying that "TKD or boxing, while they are ways of using the body, they are not taijutsu..." would be a mistake.

[Brad Ellin]

You're right, of course George. I wasn't trying to imply that taijutsu was exclusive of the x-kans. I was trying to define it in the context that we had been discussing it here. All martial arts (and many non martial arts, like dance) contain taijutsu to a degree, but certain ones retain a rigidity to them were we try to throw that away. Kinda like comparing jazz music to classical. Or freeform dance to ballet. Does that make better sense?

[George Kohler]

Does that make better sense?

Thank you for the clarification.

BTW, have we met before in Houston? I started in the Bujinkan in 1984 under Dr. Hill when we were at 19th street. I was one of the few young kids at that time (15 yrs old). John Lindsey, Bob Higginbothem, and Robert Norduft were the senior students. I believe when I started all three were 5th or 4th kyu.

[Brad Ellin]

It's a possibility. I'm not from Houston, nor Texas for that matter. However, I was stationed at Dyess from 1981 to 1984 and made a couple of trips to Houston to train (I was the only person at the time in Abilene that that trained in the Bujinkan before it was the Bujinkan). I don't remember who I trained with, just that when I came I was the only person at that time that had gone to SKH Ninja Festival and met Sensei. Of course, that didn't last long :) I went to Turkey and quite a few more people started training. Now, I'm in Houston, Spring to be exact, and having a lot of fun training with the folks here.