How far would you go...

[morphus]

How far are you prepared to go to condition yourslf for combat?

we've talked about training hard, shin conditioning, people getting fat lips.

Everybody has there own idea of how far they should take it.

i wouldn't go as far as to condition my shins i don't see that its necessary.
maybe you do something for conditioning - tell us about it!

So, how far would you go??:)

[waya]

I sometimes do contact sparring without pads when I can find a partner. Since I moved I haven't had anyone to work like that with though.

Rob

[wayofthedragon]

When working out and conditioning my body, I like to go as far as I can, at least until I feel my body can't move anymore. TO make sure of that I try to move anyway, and if I can't then I figure, well, my body has had enough.....
I love to feel my body sore after a good work out. It feels good to me, especially afterwards.
I also like to go like to spar with people I know I can't beat:)
That could really hurt sometimes....but u'll learn a lot:)

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Yep, for example you'll learn that deliberately sparring with people you can't beat causes pain.

I'll exhaust myself quite happily, but I won't get myself hurt by sparring people I know I can't beat. I'll spar people who're better than me, but I deny that there is anyone I couldn't beat, saying I couldn't is a little too defeatist for me. ;)

[STASH]

Every friday night, we go down to the park and go at it UFC style, sort of like Geoff Thompsons "animal days" but we know where to draw the line, we have added a TKO rule as well. If we clearly see that one fighter is getting killed, he's bleeding from a dozen places and has lost all hope, then we call it off.

[wayofthedragon]

YEH YEH, I know, saying sparing against someone I can't beat was just and only just an over exaduration. Though I know there probally are people out there that could beat me, I would never admit it anyway;) I simply ment people that are more experienced than I am, or have more knowledge than I do, then hopefully they can share that knowledge with me. Which is exactly what I want:)

[Melanie]

I push myself every wednesday evening training in self defence. I always come alway with bruises on my arms and legs but never to the point where I can't continue working the next day.

[Andy Murray]

I do some conditioning on my knuckles, forearms and striking handshapes. Nothing extreme, just enough to make sure I won't hold back if I ever have to hit someone in earnest.

More importantly, I try to condition myself mentally every day!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

You know, I've never had more than a handful of minor bruises from playing. I must not bruise easily.

[waya]

You can have some of mine... I worked out with a friend that fights NHB and trains Pankration and BJJ last night lol. I am 5'8 160 or so and he's about 6'2 and roughly 270 pounds.... Not really a fair grappling match.

Rob

[Cain]

I would go as far as possible even if that means shin conditioning we have to expect the unexpected and pushing ourselves to the maximum limit is the only way you are going to succeed.

Some people also say that there's no need to know this or that I must admit I get frustated by these views.
|Cain|

[Greyghost]

so....CKD...theres no one you can't beat and you don't bruise easily.....just as well my pads have bits of kryptonite sewn into them.!

I train till i'm sore...i spar till i'm sore. I can be beaten by anyone better than me and i try to give my humility a workout every day.....anyone else wanna join in?

[pgm316]

I'm not a great believer in conditioning, I think normal decent training will condition your arms knuckles enough etc. To me it often seems like damaging your limbs so they don't feel pain as much, which is all very well, but it won't necessarily make them any harder to break, so is the damage you do to them worth it!?

What I do think is valuable is getting used to taking a hit, for example taking a strike to the ribs without ending up on the floor winded!

[stump]

I agree to an extent pgm....the majority of conditioning is mental toughness.

But I'm very much for conditioning - When it's done correctly. It's not something you can do quickly. You have to do it over time or you'll end up hurting yourself. Though it sounds contradictory it has to be done "gently". If you're in anything more than slight pain when you do conditioning exercises you're missing the point in my opinion.

I don't think pushing yourself permanently to the max is anything more than a ticket to overtraining. Yes you should do it sometimes, but too much and your body can't recover before you do it again...and you end up doing yourself more harm than good. Rest is exactly as important as training.

[Cain]

Yes I agree with stump it's very effective if done correctly. Unfortunately many who start conditioning for the first time simply injure themselves by putting in too much force. Mild conditioning is the way to go. And of course conditioning takes time.
|Cain|

[pgm316]

I think I agree stump, it just depends on the conditioning methods. I'm not against being conditioned, I just feel i get conditioned enough through normal training. I punch enough focus pads so my knuckles never bruise. Practice enough blocking etc so my arms don't get bruised. Enough sparring bag work etc so I'm used to feeling the effects strikes.

I don't like the pure conditioning methods, hitting arms together purely to condition them, hitting hard objects etc. I'm sure a lot of it can lead to health problems.

What are your conditioning methods?

[Cain]

The pure conditioning which you mentioned is dangerous only if hit to the bony areas of the body like the shin. But I believe it's safe if you condition your muscles that way like your thighs and the upper and fleshy part of your forearms.
|Cain|

[LilBunnyRabbit]

so....CKD...theres no one you can't beat and you don't bruise easily.....just as well my pads have bits of kryptonite sewn into them.!

Huh? When'd I say that there's no one I can't beat?

And no, I don't bruise easily. Still hurts though, just doesn't show. So I get the pain but no sympathy.

And if this is what you were referring to:

but I deny that there is anyone I couldn't beat, saying I couldn't is a little too defeatist for me.

The main statement of Choi is Pil Sung, certain victory. Admit that you can't beat someone and you've already lost. I do deny there's anyone I can't beat. I don't deny that people are better than me and its extremely unlikely that I would beat them, but that doesn't mean that I can't.

[AllOutWar]

QUOTE
"i wouldn't go as far as to condition my shins i don't see that its necessary.
maybe you do something for conditioning - tell us about it!"

I will admit I haven't had to worry about to many kicks in a fight, but I love throwin low round house kicks! In Muay Thai as a sport they aim for thighs, on the steets you aim for knees! Str8 up why waste time fighting if you blow out the knee cap with one strike?
My point is if you don't condition your shins then how do YOU stop a low kick? If you check one of my kicks with your shin A. you won't wanna do it again cuz my shins are like baseball bats or B. I'm gonna break your shin and depending on my mood how much pain will follow. Or would you drop your arm to block it? wich would go back to scenario A and B In actuality droping your gaurd to block a kicks gonna get you knocked out! If I'm feeling you out and through a mellow kick seeing how you respond and you drop your guard be sure I'm planting one on your chin!I don't mean to be a dick or say that I'm mr.cool I am just giving a helpful insight.

[AllOutWar]

how far you should or would go depends on how serious you are. I have the century body bag speed bag combo for my house I'm on it every day. Jumping rope 30 min a day is essential. And most important would be running besides sparring. Unless you wanna end up like Tank Abbot thow 10 punches and be winded. Also I heard mentioned a sort of fight club,I am From OMAHA, NE and yes there's more out here than cornfields. We have a couple fight clubs out here Tues at Club Amnesia (HOW IRONIC) is fight night They have Submmision fighting were no strikes are thrown. Kickboxing, and Your UFC style fight. Your weighed in and are put up against someone of your talent. They're not gonna through you to the wolves! The other place is Club omega on thurs nite. Both places have radio stations sponsor it I bet you guy's could get something goin in your town.
I'm sorry these are so long I love MMA and sharing my Knowledge!
My training:
Run a mile a day
Jump rope for 30 min
kick the bag 100 times per leg
punch the bag 100 time per punch per arm I do 10 jabs per arm then 10 jab crosses per arm
mon -fri I lift weights each day designated to a part of my body
mon leg
tues chest
wens back
thurs shoulder
fri arms
everything done in 5 sets of 5 it's a body builder program.I'm not big you couldn't even tell I lift weights! I just need stregth and speed.
mon wens fri is stomach
sat me and my friend do tradtional karate forearm and thigh conditioning.
we use bjj on each other in our circle of friend but don't see much use for ir on the streets,if your outnumbered or whatever.
I am a broke ******* so I don't have sparring equimpment
anyways My routine is rather mellow compared to some. to others it maybe exteme. It just depends on how serious you are

[pgm316]

Originally posted by AllOutWar
QUOTE
"i wouldn't go as far as to condition my shins i don't see that its necessary.
maybe you do something for conditioning - tell us about it!"

I will admit I haven't had to worry about to many kicks in a fight, but I love throwin low round house kicks! In Muay Thai as a sport they aim for thighs, on the steets you aim for knees! Str8 up why waste time fighting if you blow out the knee cap with one strike?
My point is if you don't condition your shins then how do YOU stop a low kick? If you check one of my kicks with your shin A. you won't wanna do it again cuz my shins are like baseball bats or B. I'm gonna break your shin and depending on my mood how much pain will follow. Or would you drop your arm to block it? wich would go back to scenario A and B In actuality droping your gaurd to block a kicks gonna get you knocked out! If I'm feeling you out and through a mellow kick seeing how you respond and you drop your guard be sure I'm planting one on your chin!I don't mean to be a dick or say that I'm mr.cool I am just giving a helpful insight.

I can take a decent low kick to the shin and I've never done any pure conditioning exercises. Just conditioned through general sparring/training etc

What shin conditioning do you do?

I think mosts peoples problem will be not knowing how to deal with a good low kick, being in the wrong stance, not knowing how to take the kick or even trying to take with a hand/arm block! :o

[Telsun]

I do a bit of conditioning, mainly makiwara training which primary function is not to condition the knuckles but it certainly has the right effect.
Conditioning has a high degree of mental toughness involved. I don't mean you condition yourself till you bleed and can no longer use that limb but like someone said it is time consuming and to continue with it takes mental endurance.
I do like to train hard and realistically but I generally try to avoid blows than meet them head on. If you kicked me in the knee my leg will break. If I take it on my shin then with the adrenalin pumping I would PROBABLY be able to come back for more. Although I am aware how much this hurts!!!!

[AllOutWar]

I kick the bag 100 times a leg maybe 150 if I'm having a good day........ I know there is people out there who do 500 times a leg a day, I haven't got there yet! If you were born with hard shins why not thank god for the gift and make them harder? You may not feel the need to do it now but if you ever get into it with someone with hard ass shins it may be too late.

[morphus]

i think, i would only condition my body, if i were entering competition or something.

By conditioning i mean toughening shins and other parts of the body using external force ie: sticks on to bone etc.

The only body conditioning i do is cardio training , sit ups, press ups, hitting a heavy bag - nothing that i would call extreme.

[AllOutWar]

hitting your legs with sticks is not needed! if you hit the bag thats good enough. if you wanted to enter comp you may want to increase how many times you hit the bag. hitting your legs with sticks deadens nerves and toughens the skin but hitting the bag is more productive besides tough skin won't stop your shin from breaking

[khafra]

I would supplement sensory and motor nerves with fiber optics if the technology was available and reliable. I'd replace at least one eye with a CCD that had a denser dot pitch and supported more wavelengths. I don't think I'd get an Adamantium-laced skeleton, though.

[Saz]

We get hit with sticks when we practice Sanchin No Kata, and sometimes on gradings to test muscle tension. The idea is that your body should be in enough tension that the stick is meant to break on you. I've ached like nothing else after practicing that kata, (not from being hit). I believe that a lot of conditioning is mental, that you have to train your mind to overcome pain. The phyiscal side comes later, but its more important.

Morphus, what do you consider extreme?

[Cain]

Originally posted by Greyghost
so....CKD...theres no one you can't beat and you don't bruise easily.....just as well my pads have bits of kryptonite sewn into them.!

I train till i'm sore...i spar till i'm sore. I can be beaten by anyone better than me and i try to give my humility a workout every day.....anyone else wanna join in?

Count me in :D

I usually find it more fun to spar with my partner and I know I can't beat him ;)

Sparring with ppl as experienced or with lesser experience is boring at least to me, when sparring with him my alertness and determination are maximised, and my mind is centered in sparring otherwise I might as well have a broken nose for having my guard down :D

|Cain|

[Cain]

As for conditioning, I don't have the b***s to hit my shins with sticks though I will get to that level soon...

But I use the heavy bag regularly, I have kept a seperate bag full of sand, VERY tough and heavy can't even lift the damn thing instead I just keep it on the floor and practise my low kicks on it, hard to hit with full power with your shins....getting to that level...

|Cain|

[YODA]

As for conditioning, I don't have the b***s to hit my shins with sticks though I will get to that level soon.

Don't - it's stupid. Just kick the bag - and not a hard sand bag - a regular heavy bag. If you want to increase the intensity - kick it harder & more often.

[Tosh]

Isn't there a lot to be said for buidling muscle surrounding the shin for prtection anyway rather than ocnditioning?

[Cain]

It can be done but IMHO it's no substitute for conditioning...

|Cain|

[Tosh]

Hmmmm interesting though. I remember when I first started training clashing shins and the following pain was commonplace.

Now it rarelt, if ever, ocours although clashing still does.

When I feel down my shin it's like a knobbled ridge.

To be fair the only 'conditioning' 've done is continued clashing I suppose!

[pgm316]

When people talk about conditioning, I get flashbacks of Jean Claud Van Dam Kicking trees till they snap :p

Is there different terms for different conditioning, ie kicking bags as opposed to pure conditioning such as hitting shins with sticks etc.

A lot of training could be classed as conditioning, but many wouldn't class it that way.

Another problem with conditioning is that its not permanent. Recently I ended up with some bruises on my arms, a few years ago when we practised those WC techniques a lot more I didn't get a single bruise.....

[AllOutWar]

QUOTE

Isn't there a lot to be said for buidling muscle surrounding the shin for prtection anyway rather than ocnditioning?

bUILDING MUSCLE AROUND THE SHIN WILL CAUSE MUSCLE PAIN WHEN HIT IN THE SHIN.It's been said a millino and one time but hitting the bag is still the best way. If you do 100 kicks a leg a day then make it 125 150 or if you don't kick the bag every day I,d start there. I personally start the first 25-30 light building up by 30 though I lay into every time. I don't know how you personally hit the bag but I found that as soon as you hit the bag and your foot touches the floor you hit it again. it will definetly increase your kick speed and will give you that twitch kick. 2 weeks you should see results if you hit the bag every day. also jumping rope before you hit the bag is a great warm up and I think the impact of jump roping helps make your shins denser

[YODA]

Is there different terms for different conditioning, ie kicking bags as opposed to pure conditioning such as hitting shins with sticks etc.

Yeah - one is called training and the other is called ignorance.

[AllOutWar]

..........but I'd like to add you don't have to be sadistic when you train!Knowing your limitations and taking it to the next level is fine but you don't have to be crazy!

[stump]

pgm I just realised you asked this question months ago and I never replied....where are my manners??? Actually, on second thoughts don't ask !! :)

Bag work is my main method of conditioning shins and also the process of blocking kicks with or without shin pads on. Used to practise taking kicks to the ribs for body conditioning but I get enough of them when I spar so I don't need to do that anymore!!!! Aside from that sparring helps you prepare to be able to take a smack and continue. I used to do the arm conditioning exercises from kung fu (smacking arms together) but I don't see them as much use anymore

[pgm316]

Originally posted by stump
pgm I just realised you asked this question months ago and I never replied....where are my manners??? Actually, on second thoughts don't ask !! :)

Bag work is my main method of conditioning shins and also the process of blocking kicks with or without shin pads on. Used to practise taking kicks to the ribs for body conditioning but I get enough of them when I spar so I don't need to do that anymore!!!! Aside from that sparring helps you prepare to be able to take a smack and continue. I used to do the arm conditioning exercises from kung fu (smacking arms together) but I don't see them as much use anymore

I agree, thats enough conditioning for the average martial artist. Although theres not many average martial artists on here ;)

I think Yoda summed it up well as usual :D

To sum up; in the short term heavy conditioning is probably effective, but in time it will wear off and leave you in a worse condition than you would have been normally.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by AllOutWar
QUOTE

bUILDING MUSCLE AROUND THE SHIN WILL CAUSE MUSCLE PAIN WHEN HIT IN THE SHIN.

So you are saying this is a bad idea? Interesting.

So are you saying if you had more muscle in that area you are likely to have more pain when it is hit??

Does this generalise to the rest of the body?

By definition the more muscle in an area that is struck the more pain the opponent will recieve? regardless of the strength of the kick?

[pgm316]

A strike to a muscle does hurt more. Think about a dead arm, thats usually after hitting a muscle usch as the bicep etc.

How do you build muscle on the shin, its like a muscleless area of the body. You can take a hard hit to the shin because of this, what does hurt is when a fighter gets to the back of the leg, the calf or thigh muscles.

Not sure if more muscle equals more pain, maybe a large muscle will be better protected than a small one.....

[Tosh]

Originally posted by pgm316
A strike to a muscle does hurt more. Think about a dead arm, thats usually after hitting a muscle usch as the bicep etc.

How do you build muscle on the shin, its like a muscleless area of the body. You can take a hard hit to the shin because of this, what does hurt is when a fighter gets to the back of the leg, the calf or thigh muscles.

Not sure if more muscle equals more pain, maybe a large muscle will be better protected than a small one.....


Hmmmmm.... To be fair I said AROUND the shin not on it.

I just wondering which is worse getting hit on the bone or getting hit on an area that has muscle??

To be honest i'm thinking about this in terms of protecting the leg from strikes rather than using it to attack.

Can anyone give a desroption of the physics of what happens when we get a "dead arm/leg" etc.

I'd like their to be a resident MA Doctor sometimes you know!

:D

"Is there Doctor in the house? Is there Doctor in the house?" -Marx Bros

[AllOutWar]

You can build up muscle around the shin but making the bone denser with bag work is still my story and I'm stickin to it! As for using your legs as defense instead of offense, that's fine I guess.............. But if you got baseball bats for legs why would you use them for defens instead of offense? You also need to take into acount how much and how how hard do you train your shins. Would you be able to check a kick from somone who kicks the bag every day religously?You may be better off just avoiding the kick, wich may be a side step or even a step back. I personally don't like stepping back unless it's to enjoy the carnage I have released on someone! Keep the onslaught moving forward. I think I covered evry thing that was asked. No I'm not a doctor and will never repeat something I've heard unless I do it My self and it works. Watching someone fold with ! kick is something to see. It's like knocking somone out with 1punch you strike them and your arm snaps back to gaurd your chin but wait they're laid out. It comes unexpected I never count on taking them out like that but it al works out for ME in the end:D

[phoenix88]

heya,every1 has there own ways to conditioning i ofter spar people older than me and a higher grade it gives me experience conditioning,try other peoples methods of conditioning and then choose one to suit you,i condition my knuckles by punching my punch bad bare fisted and various other techniques,you could get a partner so you can both try moves on each other slowly building up the amount of power you use on each other this wil condition your body,the choice of ur conditioning is entirely up to you but hope this helped pm if ya want to from phoenix xxx

[khafra]

The thing that makes me nervous about conditioning, mostly, is that mpeg of the muay thai guy snapping an ordinary looking shin kick to the other guy's thigh, then bringing his leg back and standing on it, only to have it fold in half partway between his knee and ankle.

Looks like whatever kinda conditioning he did accomplished more pain deadening than bone strengthening.

[oni]

I believe that that was dennis alexio. Wonder what kind of conditioning he did. Any one ever see that clip of the chinese guy in the olympics on the rings years ago? He went through his whole routine and the dismounted with a broken leg. Guy didn't even flinch and won the gold. Now that's true conditioning, conditioning of the mind.

[leo]

i like fighting full force without pads but banning hard strikes to the head or any techniques designed to break bones or casue a knock out. the way to win is to make the other one quit, however most ppl i know wont go this far :(

[Sanitarium]

I don't think it connected to the thigh, I think it was a bad angle and hit the guy's knee or top of his shin.