Maximum improvement wanted for newbie

[TigerKing]

Hi,

Im in my mid 30's and new to martial arts and not long started training self defence, mainly to just get fit, as had become very lazy in the fitness department for the last few years.

I assume like alot of beginners, I want to get as good as possible as quick as possible.

One of the difficult factors is training time, as when training my heart rate is pretty much always 80+ of its maximum whch can only keep up for so long. So I was wondering whether its worthwhile adding some longer easier slower training sessions and just practicing the moves slowly forlonger time periods.

Would it be worth me dedicating 3 hours plus a day to training the movements
. What would be the maximum number of hours per day you would recommend anyone train on a daily basis if they wanted to improve as much as possible.

Is training at a much slower pace, worthwhile, it wouldnt be possible for me to train 70-80+% of my maximum heart rate for long each day, but I could easily practice much longer if the pace was much slower. How long would you recommend?

For example, some people say practice a move a 1000 times, well I could do that slowly, and is it simply a matter of if you want to be good at something, just prctice practice practice as much as you can?

Are there any tips to improving muscle memory? Ive scanned the net and come across pages that state "the secret of accerlerated learning" secrets of muscle memory, mentioning such things as mental training and Myelination.

Ive seen some self defence videos all end with visualisation of the past workout, does this kind of training really benefit the student and do any any martial arts clubs encourage students to visualise the moves?

Theres so many moves to learn, is it best to try and practice most of the moves at least a couple of times every couple of days, or everyday if possible or can I get away with just practicising them for a bit longer but maybe just once or twice a week.

Is it better to shadow fight rather than practice moves in set drills, even if mixing up the drills.

Is it better to dedicate as much training time as possible to the learning of the self defence or martial art or is it better to do less of that and add in some extra strength and other fitness traing, aerobic and anerobic, obvioulsy just shadow fighting my heart rate is well in the zone for both, so is it worth doing extra running extra?

Any other tips for really improving really fast? Is it possible to do lke crash training and get really good at a martial art, maybe not black belt standard but up there, through putting the hours in as quick as possible.

If it takes 3 years to become a black belt, training 10 hours a week, could someone do it 1 year training 30 hours a week? If not, why not, whats the key difference?

Any other tips or advice welcomed.

Thanks

[Axelator]

First of all don't worry about the belts. They're meaning less. Any fatass can get a black belt if they have the money and maybe the time.

Ok first, if you want to get the technique down first then do it at a relaxed pace and not when your bodies tired. For begginers learning a roundhouse kick or a straight punch can be very hard, they often get the details wrong. Now imagine how much harder it is to get all the details right when your body is exhausted, you end up doing things wrong, if you do them wrong a lot of the time then your muscle memory of that movement will be wrong and then it takes a long time to correct.

As for fitness. I would say having a good base in flexibility, areobic endurance and strength is very important. Flexibility is fairly simple but the most important in my opinion it stops injuries and makes learning new moves much easier, look over the faq in the stretching forum abd stretch every day.

Areobic is also fairly easy (70-80% of your max heart rate). Go for 20min-40min runs, maybe start doing 1 a week and build it up to 3-4. When you can run 2 1/2-3 miles in 20 min then maybe you can look into doing some HIIT twice a week.

Strength might be the hardest due to the equipment needed. It's quite a large complex subject with the potential for injury if you mess up. Look up the starting strength wiki.


If you have a strong will to get fit it will happen.

[TigerKing]

Thanks for the reply, Im not really interested in the belts, I was just using that as a skill level guideline.

Why is running recommended over say shadow fighting. I would have thought shadow fighting is more beneficial as it works your upper body much more than running and also your heart more, plus has the advantage of it being time spent practiscing the moves, therefore aiding muscle memory and combination of various techniques.

Thanks

[Ironized]

ill stab at this one, with my minimal knowledge and mass assumptions

please correct me guys

running, is a much more rapid process, which does include upper body, core and lower body all in one.

[Axelator]

Thanks for the reply, Im not really interested in the belts, I was just using that as a skill level guideline.

Why is running recommended over say shadow fighting. I would have thought shadow fighting is more beneficial as it works your upper body much more than running and also your heart more, plus has the advantage of it being time spent practiscing the moves, therefore aiding muscle memory and combination of various techniques.

Thanks

Shadow boxing is important for learning technique, however it's no where near intense enough to improve your fitness. Unless youre aleady very unfit. Also unless your veryunfit its not intense enough to "work" the upper body. A few rounds of sb to warm up thoug is great.

[Mitch]

Running is an excellent way to get fit, though you need decent shoes and I personally prefer somewhere grassy to run.

I would suggest that Axelators target of up to 3 miles in 20 minutes is a little overambitious and you certainly don't need to get to that level before doing some HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). If you use the age-related targets available from many websites, eg here (http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/vo2.php?metres=5000&hr=0&min=23&sec=30&age=35&gender=M&Submit=Calculate), something like 5k in 23 minutes 30 seconds still puts you in the Good fitness category.

Have a look around MAP for HIIT advice, but the main thing is to be realistic about how much your body can do; you need to build the strength, flexibility and skills required methodically and without injuring yourself, and part of that process is the rest in between sessions for your body to repair and recover.

Mitch

[Doublejab]

In terms of length of time to train, training for four plus hours at a low intensity is fine to learn technique but always remember what we are training for.

Fights are short and very intense, especially if you're training for self defence.

Once you have good basic technique then one - two hours of high intensity training is far more valuable in learning to fight than four-five hours of slower paced training.

[Atre]

Getting your basics fully correct will help you hugely. Reverse punch/roundhouse/whatever - try not to allow yourself any mistakes just cos you're new.

Perfect basics is very very helpful. Just my opinion.

Fitness is vital to stop you keeling over like an asthmatic beach ball in a fight, and useful for training because you'll get more out of the lesson.

PS. TKDMitch's running tool... http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/vo2.php?metres=3000&hr=0&min=08&sec=14&age=20&gender=M&Submit=Calculate WHAT?!! One in ten 20year olds can run a 4:34 mile AND keep that pace for 3km?!! Bull of the highest order I say (or rather, the group of 20 year olds used to compile that data were not representative of the general population).

PPS. Actually I think I misunderstood the data, what on earth is the age graded percentile about?

[Mitch]

...PPS. Actually I think I misunderstood the data,

I think so too :)

Click the explanation link next to the values you entered for more details, or do a quick google for a more detailed explanation than I could give.

Mitch

Here's a helpful link (http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/agegrading.php#Q1) within that site to explain age grading; as you'll see, it's a long way from meaning 1 in 10 20 year olds could run that pace :)

[Frodocious]

I agree with Mitch, you don't need to gain the level of fitness that Axelator suggests before starting HIIT. The intensity of a specific routine and how it affects someone is related to their individual fitness. Some people may find 30 seconds of skipping wipes them out, whilst for others it won't even have them breathing hard.


To answer some of your questions:

What would be the maximum number of hours per day you would recommend anyone train on a daily basis if they wanted to improve as much as possible.

This depends on your current level of fitness, the style you are training and if you are training at home or in the gym. Just be careful if you're training technique at home that you don't do things incorrectly and get into bad habits!

Is training at a much slower pace, worthwhile, it wouldnt be possible for me to train 70-80+% of my maximum heart rate for long each day, but I could easily practice much longer if the pace was much slower.

Slow drilling of techniques can be done at a low intensity and would be of benefit. Just be aware that with heart rates there is an element of individual physiology involved and that the figures quoted are averages and your maximum might be different from those.

Ive seen some self defence videos all end with visualisation of the past workout, does this kind of training really benefit the student and do any any martial arts clubs encourage students to visualise the moves?

I find visualising a technique really helps me perfect it. Pick one or two and run through them whenever you get a chance.

Is it better to dedicate as much training time as possible to the learning of the self defence or martial art or is it better to do less of that and add in some extra strength and other fitness traing, aerobic and anerobic.

I would say do a mix of technique and fitness work.

[Atre]

I think so too :)
...
Here's a helpful link (http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/agegrading.php#Q1) within that site to explain age grading; as you'll see, it's a long way from meaning 1 in 10 20 year olds could run that pace :)

Cheers, I think you should do a thread collating links for internet tools for fitness etc... and get it stickied. The stuff you link in posts is always exceptional.

[Urban_Samurai]

All good advice given so far.

I would say concentrate on getting your basic technique right first. If you get the basics right then you'll find the more complicated techniques a lot easier to learn. Too many people just skim over the basics in an effort to get to the more "interesting" and difficult techniques. It's akin to trying to run before you can walk. Things like stances have to be perfected in order to do the harder techniques, so that you have a solid base on which to work.

Don't try to perform techniques too fast in the beginning either because that way leads to bad habits that are hard to break further down the line. Speed will come naturally if you just let it.

The fitness side of things, although important, doesn't have to overdone. You can get by on normal fitness levels for training sessions. Again, your body will adapt to the training as you go along. If you are going to enter competitions, then you will obviously have to increase your fitness levels to last the distance. I do a half hour stamina session for each training session, made up of mostly musculature endurance exercises like press ups and sit ups, interspersed with some cardio exercises. The emphasis is on body conditioning and toughing up rather being able to run a marathon. Your body needs to be able to take the constant impact of your average training session.

Weight training is good for building strength if you can fit it in. Concentrate on big compound exercises like bench presses and dead-lifts. Kettlebells are good too.

Other than that, martial arts is mostly about putting the time in and practicing. Repetitive drilling- there's no getting away from it. As long as you have a good instructor and good training partners you should be fine and you will progress at a nice natural pace.

Take the time to enjoy the more mental and spiritual benefits of training. It's not all about the physical. Martial arts can really change your life if you allow them too and absorb the lessons contained within them. You may find that strange at this early stage, but you will understand the more you train and the more you study the arts. They can change your inner-self, make it stronger etc.

You seem very committed and that's good to see. I wish you all the best in your future training.