frank dux

[tuney30]

After watching the film bloodsport millions of times i am fascinated by frank dux. can anyone give me information on his style, records and what contestes he fought in? thanx

[STASH]

Its all at the end of the movie, after the credits I think.

[tuney30]

yeh there is stuff about his records, but people are saying that he made the whole kumite thing up , and theyre saying his style of "ninjitsu" looks more familiar to ju jitsu. but its just what ive heard

[YODA]

It's been pretty much common knowledge for quite a few years now that the guy is a total fraud.

From http://www.teemax.com/busmanartical.html

In May of 1988, John Johnson of the Los Angeles Times ran an expose of Frank Dux and his numerous lies. He showed once and for all that Dux has never been in any international "Kumite", or any tournament at all, for that matter. His trophy, which he had supposedly won in the Bahamas, had been manufactured in North Hollywood by the W.R. Moody Co. This is not far from Dux's home town of Woodland Hills. Dux also claimed that these supposed secret fights had been hosted by an organization called the "International Fighting Arts Association", a group which reporter Johnson said led only back to Dux himself! The most
damning thing about Dux though, even if one were to overlook his lies about having a secret ninja teacher named Senzo Tanaka (Tanaka, like in James Bond films--no evidence of such a person in the US or Japan has ever been uncovered), rescued boatloads of orphans, or set any kind of martial arts speed record (he didn't), is the fact that Dux has lied about his military career.

Frank Dux fabricated phony newspaper articles, one from the Washington Star, which painted him as some sort of military hero. When Johnson checked with the archives of the 'Star, they told him no such article existed--another bold fake! In Fact, Dux's records show he never even left the Continental US, and in the words of Johnson, "His only known war injury occurred when he fell off a truck he was painting in the motor pool"(1988,4). Johnson also writes that; "His military medical file. . .said that on Jan. 22, 1978, he was referred for
psychiatric evaluation for expressing "flighty and disconnected ideas." Though as a member of the reserves, which meant he was on active duty only a short time, he reportedly insisted that he was working for an intelligence agency." (1988:2)

Dux also made the blunder of mixing up Army and Marine awards on his uniform, ~none~ of which were legitimately his. He even claimed to have been secretly awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor by Congress! Now, if you think hundreds of members of congress can keep any sort of secret, you're really crazy! But Dux is somehow convinced people will buy his lies. He doesn't realize, or denies to himself that his tall tales hurt real veterans, those who actually paid the price for our nation while he was a youngster fantasizing about playing spy games.

Dux's Book, "The Secret Man" is also completely contrived. Soldier of Fortune did an expose on this fictional work of his, and debunked his bogus military claims once and for all. The August 1996 issue included a review called "Full Mental Jacket". The title of the article alone should let you know what real military men think of his stories. SOF mentioned this loser again in the Nov. 1998 issue in an article by Larry Bailey entitled "Stolen Valor: Profiles of a Phony-Hunter". Dux is shown wearing his incorrectly displayed and mixed Army and Marine Medals! The book "Stolen Valor" by B.G. Burkett is over 700 pages long, and is devoted to unmasking military fakes--he devotes 4 pages to Dux's fakery, debunking his hollow claims once and for all.

[Jim]

So what are you saying, Dave? The guy's no good? :)

[STASH]

Yea, I always thought his KO record was a little ridiculous...what was it like 2.7 secs or something???

[pesilat]

Yup. And he wrote a book called "The Secret Man" ... allegedly autobiographical.

Turns out it's fictional ... but it's a good read nonetheless :)

Mike

[YODA]

You can tell when people like Dux are telling lies...

Their lips move :p

[pgm316]

Does that mean he can't fight blindfolded!? :p

[tuney30]

yeh thanks yoda. what do you think about the schools of ninjitsu he runs though, is it true its hyped up ju jitsu?

[stump]

This movie was on Sky a few nights ago, it amused me the way they went on about "full contact" like loads of people don't train "full contact" every night of the week.

One of the many great things about vale tudo is that people now have an way to put up or shut up. So nobody's gonna believe stories about secretive full contact events in the middle of nowhere. If you wanna let people know how hard you are....step in the cage!!!!!

[Freeform]

Most 'Ninjitsu' schools ARE hyped up Ju Jitsu, the hand to hand stuffs is almost exactly the same. In the 80's to coin in on the Ninja hype, alot of Ju Jitsu instructors dressed up in black did a few Aikido classes to pick up sword work and renamed their school Ninjitsu.

[Jim]

Now you're just showing your age, FF :)

[Freeform]

Huh, oh no, some old guy told me. I think he was 33 or something, REALLY old ;)

[wayofthedragon]

I didn't know that. Man, I loved that movie. Well, the old saying that says "don't belive every thing you see on tv" is true after all huh!!! (though I don't believe everything:confused: )

[Jim]

nasty B@$t@rd! You've been talking to Mel too much.

[darlph]

Hey guys, Frank Dux may be a fraud in 99% of the things he says but he must be good at something to teach teach police seminars and to have Jean Claude Van Damm to copy things out of his book and put in his movies. THey went to court over that and it was broadcast on CourtTV. Also there is a film clip of him smashing through bullet proof glasc. So there has to be some truth somewhere of he's an awful good magician.
Personally, though I did meet him through a friend of my father (policeman) and I asked him about how he knows how to fight his opponents. He said look at how they stand when you first get in the ring, it'll tell you their style.
And no I'm not defending him. Just throwing out a few bits I know personally. The other stuff... Yoda is right about.

[darlph]

Hey guys, Frank Dux may be a fraud in 99% of the things he says but he must be good at something to teach police seminars and to have Jean Claude Van Damm to copy things out of his book and put in his movies. They went to court over that and it was broadcast on CourtTV. Also, there is a film clip of him smashing through bullet proof glass. So there has to be some truth somewhere or he's an awful good magician.
Personally, though I did meet him through a friend of my father (policeman)while he was here in town promoting his book and doing a coupl seminars. (I have never actually seen him fight and that is pretty odd because i try to keep up with that) and I asked him about how he knows how to fight his opponents. He said look at how they stand when you first get in the ring, it'll tell you their style.
And no I'm not defending him. Just throwing out a few bits I know personally. The other stuff... Yoda is right about.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Hey guys, Frank Dux may be a fraud in 99% of the things he says but he must be good at something to teach police seminars and to have Jean Claude Van Damm to copy things out of his book and put in his movies. They went to court over that and it was broadcast on CourtTV. Also, there is a film clip of him smashing through bullet proof glass. So there has to be some truth somewhere or he's an awful good magician.


All you need to teach the police is to be convincing. A good salesman can sell anything, doesn't mean its necessarily any good.

Bulletproof glass isn't hard to break, only to shoot through. Its all in the type of impact.

[mattsylvester]

Originally posted by pesilat
Yup. And he wrote a book called "The Secret Man" ... allegedly autobiographical.

Turns out it's fictional ... but it's a good read nonetheless :)

Mike

I don't believe that you're on this list as well! :0)

[pesilat]

Originally posted by mattsylvester


I don't believe that you're on this list as well! :0)

LOL ... I'm a lot of places :)

Mike

[Andy Murray]

Someone remind me!

Who was the Kick Boxer that played the Frank Dux's role in Van the Man's film? The one where Tong Po, put him in a wheel chair.

I saw a couple of the guys pro fights, and boy did he have a left body hook. I saw a match where he broke a guys ribs with it. Baaaad hairdo though!

[Jim]

Andy,

I think I know the guy you're talking about. He's from Hawaii as I recall and he had a fight with Stan (the man) Longanidis a few years back where Stan broke his leg in the first few seconds of the fight.

Can't remember his name though. The movie was Kickboxer.

[darlph]

I do not know what brought this subject up at the beginning of the month unless it was the guys name in the new member section.
Just for info and curiousity, Has anyone heard anything about what this man Frank Dux has been up to in the past 2-3 years?
Is he on the MIA list like so many other MA's? And the man Longanidis? Bolo Yeung? So many have disappeared through the cracks over the years after T.V. Guess my age is showing, huh?

[Jim]

Stan's got a new movie coming out soon 'Trojan warrior'

[Dragon_Princess]

I can't wait to see that movie.

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Someone remind me!

Who was the Kick Boxer that played the Frank Dux's role in Van the Man's film? The one where Tong Po, put him in a wheel chair.



it's been ages since I've seen the movie, but was it Dennis Alexio?

Rob

[Jim]

Yes Rob, I think you're right.

[Greyghost]

correct...it was Dennis Alexio...what ever happened to him?

and what a terrible hairdo!

[Jim]

Hey, it was the early 90's, the hair and mo rocked back then and you watch, the mullet'll come back in one day and when it does I'll be ready! :D

[Acekicken]

Nin Jitsu /\ Ju Jitsu
are related they come
from the same country

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Jim
Hey, it was the early 90's, the hair and mo rocked back then and you watch, the mullet'll come back in one day and when it does I'll be ready! :D

We'll be watching Jim!

I just godda see your photo album :)

Speaking of Dennis Alexios hair though........does anyone remember 'Soul Glo'?

[Jim]

Hey, I live in the redneck, I mean Mullet capital of Australia.

Last I saw of Soul Glo was in 'Coming to America' with the guy from 'ER' and Eddie Murphy.

I used to use Bryl Cream!

[Cain]

It does'nt matter......Bruce Lee could kick Frankie's ass anytime :D
|Cain|

[Cain]

And that is wat that matters :D

(sorry ckd for my posts I know how that angers u :D )
|Cain|

[DEUCE9QUAD29Q]

BESIDES WHAT SOME PEOPLE SAY FRANK DUX WAS REAL IS A MASTER OF MARTIAL ARTS AND IS ONE OF THE VERY BEST MARTIAL ARTISTS OF ALL TIME. HE DID NOT WRITE BLOODSPORT THOUGH HE HAD A HAND IN IT, AND ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THAT MOVIE FOLLOWED HIS LIFE STORY. HE ALWAYS FOUGHT HARD WITH A NEVER SAY DIE ATTITUDE AND IN FACT IF WE HAD MORE PEOPLE LIKE HIM AROUND WE WOULD ALL BE BLESSED. AND FOR THOSE WHO R WONDERING YES HE COULD FIGHT BLINDFOLDED. HIS RECORDS ALL BUT ONE STILL STAND TODAY. SOMEONE ELSE THREW A 76MPH KICK WITH A KNOCKOUT.HE RETIRED UNDEFEATED AT 329-0. NO ONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF FIGHTING TOURNAMENTS EVER RETIRED UNDEFATED WITH THAT MANY WINS. I CANT SAY I KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT HIS MILITARY LIFE BUT I WILL SAY THIS, THIS MAN FIGHTS WITH HONOR, COURAGE, AND INCREDIBLE SKILLS. I SALUTE YOU FRANK DUX. YOU ARE WHO I WANT TO BE LIKE. AND VAN DAMME IS A PRETTY BAD-A** MO'FO' AS WELL I WOULDN'T MESS WITH HIM ANYWAYS! BUT I STILL DONT THINK HE COULD HIT THE TOP BRICK AND MAKE THE BOTTOM ONE BREAK BUT GO FIGHT HIM AND YOU WILL SEE WHETHER HES B.S.ING OR NOT

I SUPPORT DUX

[TkdWarrior]

ROFLMAO
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

Hey Deuce,

See the third key on your keyboard towards the top from the bottom left, it's called something like, wat do u call it...... caps lock :D

Press it :D

|Cain|

[ROBERT]

I have been in 400,000 street fights and 250,000 secret deathmatches. I have won EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I was an elite member of a secret government organization that no one knows about. I have been PERSONALLY responsible for every good thing that has happened everywhere. I also hold all of the world records in everything. All of this was done in secret, of coarse.

All of this was possible only because of my STAVIT training.

Robert

[TkdWarrior]

I m Ashida Kim's Hit List :D ;)

-TkdWarrior-

[UnderDog]

Everybody seems to be bangin on Frank Dux or following suit so let me start a new trend here and challenge the "Fake Dux" argument. All you have to do is check out this web site and judge for yourself. http://martialarts.about.com/library/weekly/aa073001b.htm
I did this because I personally been studying Frank W. Dux for a number of years to, ironically, debunk his "lies". What I came up with is two words; jealousy and miscommunication. I personally believe his experiences. I know I will catch flak for saying all this but somebody had to grab the cahones and say it. Like I said, judge for yourself

[TkdWarrior]

intresting wat do u hav to say about him?wat kind of guy he is?
his character?etc etc
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

Underdog,

Start with lookin' at one of he previous links on the first page

|Cain|

[stump]

DEUCE9QUAD29Q and UnderDog.

Good for you for your beliefs. Lets settle this thing once and for all. Lets organise a fight between Frank Dux and Helio gracie....considering Helios age I'd say the odds are still stacked in Duxs favour.....and yet I'd bet on Helio. If he doesn't agree with that why not take on one of the younger Gracies? And see if his death touches and killer techniques actually work.

One major difference between the Gracies and Dux et al is that the gracies no holds barred events are documented and they don't hide behind the "too secret" BS....why doesn't Dux try to do the same?

[TkdWarrior]

well if dux scripted the movie then i wonder if he really knew Dim Mak?? Dim Mak's on Bricks... heard for the first time
we hav pretty lengthy discussion of Pressure points or Dim mak or Dim Sue or watever ...u guys should go n read those...
dux may hav the ability to fight i don't deny it but claiming as he is... most ppl takes him as serious as ashida kim

-TkdWarrior-

[UnderDog]

Well thanks for the feedback everybody. I appreciate the time and energy everyone took to "flak" me. Lol. If Dux chooses to fight the Gracies or not is his business. I was just standing up for the guy. Like I said, someone had to do it. Thanx again.:cool:

[Andy Murray]

I hear ya Underdog!

Anyone got an opinion of Frank Dux that they haven't simply read somewhere, and taken the authors words as gospel?

[stump]

Andy,

the only people who have something to prove are the ones who mouth off. Dux has made the claims, so let him back them up or shut up. If his fighting system is so wonderful let one of his students "represent".

And underdog you've certainly not been flakked.

[Cain]

Oh well, I admit my only source was a link and some google searches

But has Dux anything to prove himself?

|Cain|

[pgm316]

It doesn't seem like there's enough information to prove whether he's a good or bad martial artist. Although I've heard enough dodgy things to make me have a lot of doubts

Cain, are we having a party when we get to 1000 posts! ;)

[TkdWarrior]

cain n pgm
hmm u guys spend too much time on MAP(especially cain)
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Ok you can come to the party to TKD :D

[TkdWarrior]

pgm316
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: On a White Cloud
Posts: 985

TkdWarrior
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: India
Posts: 914

Cain_charlie
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Bombay, India
Posts: 993

wat does that tells u?
Indian talks too much :D
i luv myself
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

eh! lol

BTW, we are one of the top posters :D

|Cain|

[pgm316]

Also tells you I have the internet at work :)

Nearly 3,000 posts between us, we must really get on everybodies nerves! :p

[Andy Murray]

No comment.

While you guys hurtle along posting any old drivel to get to 1,000 posts :D why not consider making your 1,000th your best ever post.

A real meaty thread perhaps?

[Cain]

Hehe, I already considered it.......

:D

|Cain|

[c_storm51]

I wait with baited breath....! Only 5 to go now....can we expect something in the next hour, or so?! ;)

[pgm316]

I'm going to do a really long leaving one! :D

[Cain]

lol

Though my thread will be a bit confusin' and will be in the

SPOILER! SPOILER!

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Off-Topic Area :D

|Cain|

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by pgm316
I'm going to do a really long leaving one! :D

Oi, I'll ave U :woo:

What I said was;

"It is with no small amount of trepidation and sadness, I wish to declare that now it's time for me to spend less time with you people online, and more time on my personal development in the Arts.

While you will still see the occasional 'quip' from me, and my role as moderator remains as given, I leave it to you, the members, to continue building the good will between the arts the site has demonstrated thus far."

Why does everyone want me to leave?
:( :( :(

[Cain]

Maybe because u r a 'chief troublemaker' :D

It wassa joke please, no please, put the gun down please, it won't happen again I promise :D

|Cain|

[pgm316]

No one wants you to leave Andy! :( And by the looks of things I don’t think you ever will ;)

It brought a tear to everyone’s eye, there’s so much love on this site! Ironic seeing how all we talk about is smashing people heads in all day! :D

[Bombotta]

Hey Guys,

I had heard nothing of this controversy stuff until I logged on today to check him out.

I have to say it is interesting to see what people have to say about him.

I just met Frank Dux a few weeks ago. He made some pretty big claims, showed a video of him knocking some people out (in front of a large audience) breaking what the video claimed was bullet proof glass (in the video there was a large audience of people present for this display) and then he did a small seminar and a demonstration of some of his skills.

I have a boxing background and I am not impressed with anything impractical. I have fought in some local full contact events at the armature level. (Sanctioned and with referee's of course) I have also trained on more than one occasion with several UFC competitors including Frank Shamrock, Maurice Smith, Ivan something, and Kosoka (sp) a fighter from Japan.

Anyway, I came by to see Franks Dux's seminar because a friend of mine had trained in Ninjitsu and I had seen Blood Sport and thought it was a pretty cool movie.

I can tell you Frank Dux's style looks nothing like Jujitsu to me. I have trained in BJJ. BJJ practicioners are awesome with grappling, but when it comes to striking most I have seen are adequate at best.

Dux moves more like a boxer or kick boxer than a Jujitsu stylist, and he has an explosive style of movement similar to what I have seen in JKD. --Explode forward with a series of quick powerful strikes and then retreat out of the range of your opponent. Use bob and weaves, create angles and use choppy movements to throw off an opponent.

The fighting stance he used looked similar to Bruce Lee's or a sugar foot boxing stance--if you are familiar with either.

I believe his Ninjitsu style incorporates ground fighting, but I did not get a chance to see any of this. This is unfortunate since I consider myself to be pretty good judge of ground skills.

Anyway, I will say he (Frank Dux) did an extremely impressive high roundhouse kick on a bag hanging aprox 6 feet off the ground. It was fast and he did this cold and in normal clothes. --No warm up, stretching, etc

Also I believe he said he had had a stroke (or brain surgery or something) a while back so that made it even more impressive to me.

As for his fighting skill, I cannot say anything except he showed me some interesting stuff for the boxing ring and from seeing him move, I wouldn't want to fight him.

He is much lighter on his feet than I would expect from a guy his size and he looked pretty damn fast to me.

As for his record of 300 wins? Hell if I know.

[Melanie]

Welcome Bombotta!

Nice to have someone who's recently met him and give their opinions. Its amazing just how much interest this thread has had. This thread alone has pretty much had the highest viewing on the entire forum.

Anyway, welcome aboard and we look forward to hearing more from you. :)

[Cain]

Hi Bombotta, look forward to hering from you :D

And yeah this thread got very few replies compared to the thousands of views

|Cain|

[TkdWarrior]

<I will say he (Frank Dux) did an extremely impressive high roundhouse kick on a bag hanging aprox 6 feet off the ground. It was fast and he did this cold and in normal clothes. --No warm up, stretching, etc>
hmm i can do that too...No Warm Up, No stretching, hell if u say i'll so it in freezing winters :D but that's not measure of a MAN :D
anyways from wat i heard about his claims(false) but he can fight, i guess no one asked if he can fight or not...the main controversy is his claims, that's it or that's not it??
well welcome to the forum
-TkdWarrior-

[Chazz]

This guy has got to be one of the most questioned martial artist knowned. A few weeks ago blood sport was on tv. For some reason i started doing info searches on Dux. For hours i read info saying that he is a fake and some saying he is not. To tell the truth i think the only one who will know the truth is him.

[darlph]

Thanks to someone who has recently seen him. I often wonder what he had been doing since I met him several years back. Bombtta, was he kind of a quiet type person. I mean he wasn't extemely excitable, was he? When I met him, after everyone got pictures and autographs, he kind of walked around an observed alot. Like I said way earlier, 99% may be B.S. but he gave me an insite to spotting your sparring opponents 1st attack that actually was and still is quite true and it has worked for me quite well.
My personal opinion is that he is a nice acquaintence who has some valuable information and skills in martial arts. As a martial artist, I have never seen him in live action other than film. So who is to really know but him?

[thetruth]

Frank Dux is a fake. He is also not an honorable man. he should be exposed and forced to fight with real warriors. The LA Times, the movie industry know he is a con-man. Even within his own ranks he shows no honor. go to http://www.teemax.com/truth.html and you can read the real truth from one of his students. I am sure over time more and more people will continue to surface and tell what kind a fake he is, and the only question that one person should ask themself is why? Why does this man have so many questioning him? Why? do you see people questioning other great masters who are real. No you don;t because they would get a big foot up their ass! Frank Dux is also a coward and I know people who have called him out. Not with fan fare or wanting PR, etc. They called him out. Just you and me. Know witnesses and choked out. Holla back if anyone has additional stories on this FAKE as the more that come forward the better and maybe we can put it all together in our own story for the world to see.
TheTRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE FRANK

[Miruko]

Hi everyone I am new to this forum, and I must say I am pretty surprised to see a forum like this. I am a martial arts enthusiest, I am 22 years old and my step father has been teaching me various martial arts since I was about 4 years old, hense the Miruko (It means to blend.) So I have a little taste of all the major arts in me.

I just just finished watching the movie Bloodsport on T.V, and I decided I guess like some of you have done to do a web search for Frank W Dux. This was the first place that I clicked on. I must say that I do believe that Frank W Dux is a real fighter. The reason we obviously cant find out to much info on him, is 1) These are not big fights we are talking about, This is underground Hong Kong Kumite. And 2) If the movie is based on true facts, than Frank W Dux served in the milatary. I dont think that the milatary would allow something like this all over the place. He probably did not want great publicity or anything like that, as this tournament isnt like that, it was about honour, and self accomplishment. How would a reporter right a story on someone winning a tournament, when the poor person can probably not even understand what a Kumite is? Its a underground Fight, he did it to show respect to his master who is a Tanaka. Tanaka is a well know name, He was a sensei and a 8th degree black belt. He studied more accupuncture and self healing. The movie does touch down on these points throughout, Jean Claudes training in the early parts of the movie. I think that if the movie directors or producers showed us this much that is possibly true, I would say that the rest is true, but Frank W Dux is probably just a normal guy that understands the right and honourable ways of doing things.

Instead of this why are you guys talking about Jean Claude? A martial artist??? hmmmm I think not, more of a gymnist who got a shot, and took it. I personly dont think that he has any real life love for any martial art.


Anyways this is a sweet forum, I will check in from time to time.

Later

[Melanie]

Welcome Miruko :)

I'm not surprised you found us on a search for Frank Dux. It is one of the most popular requested threads on search engines for some reason and our extremely clever administrators have managed to make us top in the results!

I too have watched Bloodsport and enjoy it for what it is, a bit of fantasy meshed with a bit of advertising of martial arts. The breaking of bricks seems to of impressed a few novices (and I'll admit I was impressed when I first saw it too!). Anyway, welcome on board and we look forward to further contributions from you. I would imagine your posts are going to be expansive as I have never seen such a long initial post before...well maybe Darzeka did one when he first came aboard too (?)

:)

[Quickhit3299]

My uncle's best friend friend knows Frank Dux. I've met him, and he's a nice guy. And, according to what I've seen him do, he isn't bad at all at martial arts. However, I have not heard him talk about entering a Kumite, and other things like that, so I'm not gonna say it's a lie, and I'm not gonna say it's true. I'm not really sure what to think of it.

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by Quickhit3299
My uncle's best friend friend knows Frank. I've met Dux, and he's a nice guy. And, according to what I've seen him do, he isn't bad at all at martial arts. However, I have not heard him talk about entering a Kumite, and other things like that, so I'm not gonna say it's a lie, and I'm not gonna say it's true. I'm not really sure what to think of it.



I heard Hanshi Frank Dux opened a new website giving rebuttal to the allegations he is a fraud at www.duxryu.8m.com.
Their students do spar at various invitations. Around the USC area there are few to challenge them mainly since most of DRN greenbelts defeat other styles blackbelts. If he is a fraud, he sure has a put together strong and extremely tough organization.
I'm not new to ma, been in ma since 1966.
I have been a blackbelt since 1973 and all these claims (fake or real) doesn't affect my ma's. Anyone is invited to come to their school and check it out.

[Sonshu]

I have read the artical link on your post and it sounds to me (a big sceptic) like sour grapes.

Yes he has used trickery for public events but he is a good martial artist from the people who have trained with him and have not got a grudge.

The website sounds like a bit of a personal winge to me - sorry guy.

I am not a fan of Dux Ryu but he is said to be a very competent fighter.

SONSHU

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by Sonshu
I have read the artical link on your post and it sounds to me (a big sceptic) like sour grapes.

Yes he has used trickery for public events but he is a good martial artist from the people who have trained with him and have not got a grudge.

The website sounds like a bit of a personal winge to me - sorry guy.

I am not a fan of Dux Ryu but he is said to be a very competent fighter.

SONSHU

Sonshu, I'm neither for nor against Dux Ryu, I started ma before Dux Ryu or JKD.

[lopedl]

It's to bad that Frank Dux fabricated everything. But the movie Bloodsport was still an insperational movie for many including myself. At least some good came out of it.

[Chazz]

I read thing saying all kinds of things about him. Ive got an idea of what he really is in my mind but then everytime i read something new it changes a little. I do thing that Bloodsport is JUST A MOVIE. A story that he may have heard, or a mix of stories but over all a story. I do think that he may be a good martial artist but wasnt happy with being good, he wanted greatness and fame. So he MADE himself great. I dont know the man so i cant say that he isnt for real, im just saying that this is what i think.

[stump]

imo yes it does matter. If the guy is a liar then he should be exposed. People like him making extravagent claims about their abilities make the public sceptical and dubious abou tthe martial arts in general.

If he was a doctor he'd have been struck off. There is no facility like this to deal with bogus martial artists, therefore name and shame is the only tool we really have to deal with charlatans

[camel_2000]

It is obvious no one here is even remotely familiar with martial arts. Sorry gang, just call it like I see it.

[stump]

......why don't you tell us how it is then?

[Aegis]

Originally posted by camel_2000
It is obvious no one here is even remotely familiar with martial arts. Sorry gang, just call it like I see it.

Actually I've found that a lot of people here are very familiar with the martial arts. It's people who believe the fabrications and regard themselves as excellent martial artists because they think they've trained in a legitimate system that tend to be ignorant.

Anyway, that's beside the point. It is just plain stupid to come onto a forum and make your first post a very insulting one. Especially when you don't have the audacity to actually explain your reasoning. I suggest that you explain why you came out with that comment, and fairly quick, or you will just be branded a troll and no-one on this forum will ever take anything you say seriously. Personally, with a start like that, I don't think much of your chances...

[Cain]

So what's the conclusion on Dux?

A compotent martial artist but not exactly what he claims to be....sounds like a fraud either way, however I don't know too much about him, better reserve my final judgement...

|Cain|

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by camel_2000
It is obvious no one here is even remotely familiar with martial arts. Sorry gang, just call it like I see it.


Hello Camel_2000,
I am willing to hear what you have to say. I'm not very familiar with ma's though.
I only studied 5 art styles and teach 2 of them. I have been in ma's for 37 yrs.

[Sonshu]

Is often no guarentee of quality or anything new PT and as for Frank Dux - it just looks to me like the person who did the site has sour grapes and I hear all the time about disgruntled students slagging of there old instructors.

He is obviously a good martial artist and its pretty obvious that bloodsport is nothing more than a film. However the site is just having a pop at him and well let him be, 99% of martial arts people wont know who he is unless you say he is the clown that bloodsport was based on.

So in truth its not harming anyone as all the mystique he may of once had is long gone.

[Cain]

Yes he may be a good martial artist but what about him making claims which were proved false even by the media.....?

|Cain|

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by Sonshu
Is often no guarentee of quality or anything new PT and as for Frank Dux - it just looks to me like the person who did the site has sour grapes and I hear all the time about disgruntled students slagging of there old instructors.

He is obviously a good martial artist and its pretty obvious that bloodsport is nothing more than a film. However the site is just having a pop at him and well let him be, 99% of martial arts people wont know who he is unless you say he is the clown that bloodsport was based on.

So in truth its not harming anyone as all the mystique he may of once had is long gone.

I don't recall speaking about Dux.I was speaking of myself.
As far as time served and quality Sonshu, I do seminars /demos in quality schools teaching students and teachers how to improve their quality of ma's. I teach speed, power, focus and balance conditionings. Haven't found a school yet that wasn't appreciative of instruction.

[Kwajman]

There will always be scam artists who impress novices with their claims and some decent martial art demonstrations. Frank is known as a competent martial artist, but NO one can verify his claims. In todays world, almost anything you claim can eventually be verified. The movies decent, the man can be interesting and he's obviously started a lot of intelligent (and some idiotic) comments going in this VERY interesting thread! I am soooo glad I stumbled on this website, its got me HOOKED! Thanks to all you posters!

[Sonshu]

Never said you were not up to scratch and me talking about frank dux was a seperate thing to the comment I made to you.

I am merely saying there is a big difference between time served and ability.

I know some 3rd and 4th dans in Karate who are not much cop at all and they have over 15 years training experience but this is because they never trained hard and just turned up doing kata etc.

Yet there are also 3-4 year students in Karate and other arts that are excellent there seems to be such a big difference and I only judge people on ability rather than time served. One of my students showed me somthing about a month ago I never though of (he is a white belt with about 6 weeks experience and no prior MA experience) I have around 12 years and I was grateful for his insight as it was so basic and worked so well.

[ptcruiser]

Sonshu,

thank you for your post.
I have found the secret over the years, that to be a great student you must be in a teaching/instructing position. I'm a great student today. You teachers understand what I mean.

[Xia]

PTCruiser,

"Poor is the student who does not defeat the master, poor is the master who his students do not defeat(surpass) him". Do you agree?

[Sonshu]

You are both getting far to philisophical for me - and I teach!

I am a simple man and even instructors still learn we all do, no one knows it all.

:D

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by Xia
PTCruiser,

"Poor is the student who does not defeat the master, poor is the master who his students do not defeat(surpass) him". Do you agree?


Yes, but few there be that find it!!!
Thanks

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by Sonshu
You are both getting far to philisophical for me - and I teach!

I am a simple man and even instructors still learn we all do, no one knows it all.

:D


Agree, when we stop learning we should stop breathing.

[Aegis]

Originally posted by Xia
PTCruiser,

"Poor is the student who does not defeat the master, poor is the master who his students do not defeat(surpass) him". Do you agree?

No. A decent master will not stop his own learning and will therefore always defeat his student.

I'd instead say: "Poor is the student who does not strive to defeat the master, poor is the master who allows his students to defeat(surpass) him"

Just my opinion, but one I know is shared by a few people in the arts.

[ptcruiser]

Aegis,

I believe the statement was intended to continue training even after the master has deceased. More philosophical than a literal interpretation.
My instructor stopped at 3rd dan, I went on to 5th dan, I could have stopped at 2nd dan just under my instructor. He would have come out of retirement after me had I not continued on, thus defeating the master.

[Sonshu]

will always beat his master, he will often have youth and strength on his side.

Not always but often.

:D

[shonuff]

Any of his students on this board?

[Infesticon #1]

weird, there are a Lot of single post users in this forum, most of them for Dux

it's a conspiracy I tell ya, Dux I know it's you.


*cough*

anyway, this is my favourite quote from Frank Dux's official site

Ed Parker:

the “Father of American Karate”
and teacher to Bruce Lee, Danny Inosanto, Mike Stone, Al Tracy, Elvis Presley and many other celebrated martial artists.


yes, Elvis Presley, that renowned martial artist.

[stump]

Elvis apparently trained under Ed Parker and had a Black Belt in Kenpo...how much was gimick I have no idea it seems real enough.

The teacher to Bruce Lee however I'm not so sure of....Inosanto yes....Lee?????Hmmmm

[YODA]

Lee - nope!

[Saz]

Elvis had an 8th Dan in Kenpo as I recall. I believe it was an honarary Black belt he got, mostly to publicise Kenpo.

Ask Andrew Green, he should know ;)

[Infesticon #1]

wow, I never knew the king was an MA'er

[Guy Mendiola]

There was a pic on the net where it showed Elvis with a gi and a bb.

[Markism]

Surely there are fighters still alive that fought in the kumite that Dux claims to have fought in. Surely they would have come forward.
If people say they won't because of the whole secrecy thing, why has Dux come forward?
Surely if it is a dishonorable thing to talk about the Kumite why would Dux violate that honor just to make himself more famous if the Kumite means to him what he claims it does.

Btw This is not a "Was Elvis a martial artist?" thread

[TM77]

wow, I never knew the king was an MA'er

There was a movie put out, back in the early 70s I think, that followed Elvis on tour. At one point onstage, Elvis showed off some karate moves with one of his bandmates. And he also stated that the white jumpsuit he wore was influenced by the karate gi.

[alexxlea]

That was a jumpsuit???
I always thought it was a gi.

[Guy Mendiola]

Surely there are fighters still alive that fought in the kumite that Dux claims to have fought in. Surely they would have come forward.
If people say they won't because of the whole secrecy thing, why has Dux come forward?
Surely if it is a dishonorable thing to talk about the Kumite why would Dux violate that honor just to make himself more famous if the Kumite means to him what he claims it does.

Btw This is not a "Was Elvis a martial artist?" threadYeah, I agree but I mean like it's says in the movie "Bloodsport", It's kept a secret but i'm sure it's very popular in China but not that well disscussed there, I also agree with the fighters in the Kumite that maybe Dux competed in but maybe not necessiraly won the Kumite but at least got to the top.

[Knight_Errant]

Yo! check this out!
http://www.teemax.com/busmanartical.html
It's kinda irrational to suppose that dux competed in some super-secret chinese kumite that nobody in the west talks about.

[Kagebushi]

i'd like to see what Hatsumi, Tanemura, or Manaka has to say about dux. that would pretty much be decisive on whether or not it's ninjutsu. (im pretty sure already). as for his skill, well, he'll have to be in a few documented fights. of course, some people really have been in a lot of real fights (often to the death) and never been defeated. Musashi had about 200. ive heard that Toshitsugu Takamatsu was in over 1000 (big dojo storming days) but im not sure. i know he was in quite a few.

[Knight_Errant]

does that link work for everyone else, or is my computer on the blink?

[K_Coffin]

Doesn't work for my computer either. Try again, I'd like to read it if I could. In my opinion though, I would say that Dux doesn't sound too honorable, or supernatural. I'm sure he's an excellent fighter, very skilled from years of fights. I'm sure he's a very capable leader. But it sounds like he's fabricated quite a bit, from his "Military Career" to his "Koga Ryu Ninjutsu". Personally, I don't really care. But as to Musashi, to his own admittance, I've only ever heard that he was in 60 duels, all fatal, obviously all won by Musashi.

[alexxlea]

Not all of his duels were fatal.

[Kagebushi]

i read it in some samurai book that pretty much outlines the samurai philosophy (supposedly) i dont remember the title though, it was my cousins book.

[Kagebushi]

oh yeah, i also heard that he used a bokken or sakabato for a while, so i'd say not ALL of his duels ended up being fatal.(if its true)

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

After watching the film bloodsport millions of times i am fascinated by frank dux. can anyone give me information on his style, records and what contestes he fought in? thanx

Dux's notoriety was just heating up when he sued the man who portrayed him, Jean Claude Van Damme, in October 1998. Van Damme and Dux were friends--after all, it was the role of Frank Dux that catapulted Van Damme to stardom. Dux was even dating Van Damme's sister-in-law.

http://www.budo-az.com/budo/php_e/dux_e.php

[Hannibal]

In all the "is he/isn't he" hubub I am surprised at a couple of factors that cannot be avoided:

1) Dux clearly IS a liar, as his military record (or rather lack thereof) demonstrates. No matter how "nice a guy" he seems if you meet him, he is a liar and has done it for no reason but self-promotion and profit.

2) Can he fight? Having never met him I cannot say for sure. But it should be pointed out that at UFC 1 he tried to "jump" Zane Frazier from behind (not exactly honourable in itself). Zane was less than impressed and flattened him with little effort. If Dux was so good I find it laughable that he would fail in an ambush attack on an individual who then went on to get panned in a Vale Tudo match. Looking at the evidence from this angle is highly suggestive of a lack of fighting competence.

Also, why would a secret tournament in China (Hong Kong) be called a "Kumite". That's Japanese for flip's sake!

[Knight_Errant]

Also, why would a secret tournament in China (Hong Kong) be called a "Kumite". That's Japanese for flip's sake!
Come to think of it... :D
K guys, I couldn't find a link that worked, but I did find a transcript. Man, I love forums.
In May of 1988, John Johnson of the Los Angeles Times ran an expose of Frank Dux and his numerous lies. He showed once and for all that Dux has never been in any international "Kumite", or any tournament at all, for that matter.

His trophy, which he had supposedly won in the Bahamas, had been manufactured in North Hollywood by the W.R. Moody Co. This is not far from Dux's home town of Woodland Hills.

Dux also claimed that these supposed secret fights had been hosted by an organization called the "International Fighting Arts Association", a group which reporter Johnson said led only back to Dux himself!

The most
damning thing about Dux though, even if one were to overlook his lies about having a secret ninja teacher named Senzo Tanaka (Tanaka, like in James Bond films--no evidence of such a person in the US or Japan has ever been uncovered), rescued boatloads of orphans, or set any kind of martial arts speed record (he didn't), is the fact that Dux has lied about his military career.


Frank Dux fabricated phony newspaper articles, one from the Washington Star, which painted him as some sort of military hero. When Johnson checked with the archives of the 'Star, they told him no such article existed--another bold fake!

In Fact, Dux's records show he never even left the Continental US, and in the words of Johnson, "His only known war injury occurred when he fell off a truck he was painting in the motor pool"(1988,4).

Johnson also writes that; "His military medical file. . .said that on Jan. 22, 1978, he was referred for
psychiatric evaluation for expressing "flighty and disconnected ideas." Though as a member of the reserves, which meant he was on active duty only a short time, he reportedly insisted that he was working for an intelligence agency." (1988:2)


Dux also made the blunder of mixing up Army and Marine awards on his uniform, ~none~ of which were legitimately his.

He even claimed to have been secretly awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor by Congress! Now, if you think hundreds of members of congress can keep any sort of secret, you're really crazy! But Dux is somehow convinced people will buy his lies.

He doesn't realize, or denies to himself that his tall tales hurt real veterans, those who actually paid the price for our nation while he was a youngster fantasizing about playing spy games.


Dux's Book, "The Secret Man" is also completely contrived. Soldier of Fortune did an expose on this fictional work of his, and debunked his bogus military claims once and for all.

The August 1996 issue included a review called "Full Mental Jacket". The title of the article alone should let you know what real military men think of his stories.

SOF mentioned this loser again in the Nov. 1998 issue in an article by Larry Bailey entitled "Stolen Valor: Profiles of a Phony-Hunter". Dux is shown wearing his incorrectly displayed and mixed Army and Marine Medals! The book "Stolen Valor" by B.G. Burkett is over 700 pages long, and is devoted to unmasking military fakes--he devotes 4 pages to Dux's fakery, debunking his hollow claims once and for all

[Kwajman]

MOH awardees are never kept secret anyway. The intelligence services have their own awards however, that for obvious reasons are kept from the public.

[holbrookrwh]

I did a google search on Frank Dux this is what came up for you non-believers on Frank Dux


HANSHI FRANK DUX

Hanshi Frank Dux founded Dux Ryu, the first American system of ninjitsu. Although Dux Ryu is rooted in traditional ninjitsu, experience in no-holds-barred competitions forced Hanshi Dux to adapt, improvise, and change his fighting in order to dominate in his fights. His system of triangulation and angles-of-attack helped him defeat traditional linear or circular movement styles. Hanshi Dux was the 1975-1980 World Heavy Weight Kumite champion and is the holder of 16 world speed and power records. He is a qualified instructor in 22 disciplines and was the inspiration for the movie "Bloodsport." In 1993, he became a "Knight Chevalier" in the Miami Police Hall of Fame; he has also been inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Hanshi Dux is a co-author/ contributor for the U.S. Navy Seals Special Operations Manual.

Dux Ryu Ninjitsu
8306 Wilshire Blvd. #85
Beverly Hills, CA 91212





Frank Dux poses for a photo with About Guide James Hom. (click for larger photo)


More of this Feature
• Part 1: Meet Frank Dux
• Part 2: Controversy
• Part 3: Van Damme Lawsuit
• Part 4: Dux Ryu



Elsewhere on the Web
• CourtTV: Dux vs. Van Damme
• Dux, Dux, Goose
• POV Magazine: Dux vs. Van Damme



Colorful Character

Regardless of what's true or false about Frank Dux, the guy is definitely a colorful character. Some of his claims do sound far-fetched: contributions to the Navy SEAL SpecWar manual, world records for breaking bulletproof glass, his exploits as a spy depicted in his book "The Secret Man". Yet a lot of what's true speaks volumes: a comeback from brain surgery and coma, and legions of loyal students.

The controversy surrounding Dux reminds me of that surrounding Dr. Maung Gyi, grandmaster of bando, the martial art of Burma (now Myanmar). Gyi is under fire for falsifying his military record, similar to the allegations brought against Dux. Another famous martial artist and movie star, aikidoist Steven Seagal, has been known to claim affiliation with the CIA and a history of secret missions in shadowy lands.

Perhaps the best way to evaluate these martial artists is on their merits as martial artists. All three are responsible for endowing multitudes of students with martial knowledge. The instructors and students of Dux Ryu that I've met, both in person and online, share a zeal for their support of Dux and his style of ninjitsu.

Dux ryu itself is/isn't considered a legitimate branch of ninjitsu/ninjutsu, depending upon who you talk to. From what I've seen, the unarmed techniques are reminiscent of jujitsu--Frank Dux's first style. Yet like many martial artists who start their own styles, Dux includes elements of other arts.

What's next for Frank Dux? Besides private training and seminars, Dux is trying to bring the Kumite to pay-per-view television. In a time where the Ultimate Fighting Championship exploded into viewer's homes and then was kicked off cable TV, this might be a tough sell. But what a story it would be--a tournament had to be secreted underground 25 years ago now broadcast to millions of people. And what if Dux fought again? I'm sure there would be plenty of fans rooting for him.


Previous Articles

[Kwajman]

You can put anything on google that you want. While he may be a good martial artist, the lies that he's been caught in take away from a great deal of his accomplishments.

[Jesh]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet...

[bassai]

I wonder if we ever here from this guy again? :cool:

[Davey Bones]

Hope not. Of course, as long as Black Belt magazine allows him to be one of their regular attention whores, the name of Frank Dux will keep popping up. :bang: