Krav Maga

[STASH]

All i know is that its an Israeli martial art, anyone know anything about it, or better yet...know any sites?

[Jim]

Try these...

www.usadojo.com/aboutkravmaga
www.angelfire.com/super2/bobgreenwade/kravmaga

Or just do a search on Yahoo.

Jim

[Big Bizz]

Or try this one:

http://www.krav-maga.com/



Sean

[Freeform]

So does anyone know whats actually distincitve about Krav Maga, I know its a purely combative style but what are the emphasis's on in training?

Col

[Tseek Choi]

Funny but the web sites all regard KM as a realistic combat system, yet it is advertised in the METRO (London freebie) as an ideal way to loose weight & tone the body.
It is classified between Cardio-kickboxing and spinning classes.
Strange! I bet the Israeli special forces are impressed.

It seems to me to be an application driven self defence system, ex-military unarmed combat.
My only concern is whether the instructors teaching in the UK and else where are really competent, compared to the Israeli forces, or whether a few seminars lead to instructor status!

Still I'd be interested if anyone here trains this system.

Colin.......................

[Andy Murray]

A UK site;

Click Here! (http://www.kravmaga.org.uk/whatis.htm)

[Bon]

There isn't much information on krav maga =/

I'm gonna start training in it early next year after Christmas though. Here's an outline of the syallabus :

Units 1-4 are here in some details)

Unit 1: General Information and Theory
1. History of K.M. and of it's founder
2. Dealing with a dangerous event:
-a. State evaluation, process of dealing with an event
-b. Neutralizing a danger and all its aspects
-c. Possible outcome of a violent conformation.
3. Principles underlying the defense techniques.
4. Principles underlying the attack techniques.
5. Training by principles - from techniques to real life variations
6. Using common objects for self defense -theory and practice.
7. Rhythm and pace.
8. Using /relying on natural reactions to correct or prove a point.
9. Principles and techniques of mental training.
...
...

Unit 2: Teaching Methodology; Human body
1. Basics of anatomy and physiology.
2. Correct instructing for instructors.
3. Lesson plan outlines & preparing.
4. Teacher student relationship.

Unit 3: Preliminary Considerations
1. Safety in training
-a. Organization of training: methods of training
-b. Dress and appearance
-c. Maintaining the studio
-d. Behavior during training
2. The warm-up
-a. General principles
-b. Exercises and variation
-c. Approach to stretching and flexibility

Unit 4: The Basics
1. How to stand - different outlet stances
2. How to Punch : The basics use of body's weapons; make a fist; Theory of recoiling
3. Movement and shadow boxing
4. How to handle a fall

-a. Fall breaks backwards & from high position
-b. Side fall breaks
-c. Soft/hard forward fall breaks
-e. Rolls forward - high, low, sideways,
-f. Roll backwards.
-g. Rolling with assignments, Combinations of rolls and fall breaks
(The following units appear here by the subject's name only)
Unit 5 - Attacking with the Hands
Unit 6 - Attacking with the Legs

Unit 7 - Defenses against Punches

Unit 8 - Defenses against Kicks

Unit 9 - Releases from Grabs, Chocks & Holds at high level

Unit 10 - Releases from Grabs & Holds at medium level

Unit 11 - Releases with Throws

Unit 12 - Release from holds & grabs on the floor

Unit 13 - Leverages & Takedowns.

Unit 14 - Defense against attacks involving a stick / club.

Unit 15 - Defenses against attacks involving a knife (edged weapons).

Unit 16 - Defense against threats involving a knife (edged weapons).

Unit 17 - Defense against threats involving handgun.

Unit 18 - Defense against threats involving Submachine gun.

Unit 19 - Using common objects as weapons in defense against armed assailants

Unit 20 - Self defense against two assailants or more (armed with knife/stick or not armed)

Unit 20-25 - Military training units

Unit 26-30 - Law Enforcement training unites

Unit 31-33 - Additional units for Security and VIP Protection

Unit 34 - Self-defense for Children - Applications and transformations of the basic techniques and training methods for children.

Unit 35 - Self-defense for Women - Applications and transformations of the basic techniques and training methods for women.

Unit 36 - Fighting Drills.

Units 37-38 - Fighting Tactics and applications.

Unit 39 - Fighting in different positions & places.

Unit 40 - Ways and applications of mental training.

Unit 41 - 44 Training Methods for the above units.

Unit 45 - Simulations and scenarios, analyzing and training accordingly.

[khafra]

You did cover the parts I've always been interested in, but never gotten any detail on--when you get to the units covering it, could you give a description of what exactly an unarmed defense against a guy 20 feet away holding a submachine gun is?

[Bon]

Nah, I can't sorry. :/

It's copied & pasted from http://www.krav-maga.com/index2.html

You could probably ask about it in this forum though,

http://www.kravmaga.com/forum/bigtalker.cgi

[khafra]

Thanks! That looks like the resource to use, for sure!

[iolair]

I've just read http://www.kravmaga.org.uk/techniques.htm

Brutal. It's certainly a not a combat sport - the objective is to render the attacker unable to fight as quickly as possible by whatever means. I'd say very effective for self defence...

Red Grading includes defence against an attacker with a grenade, and using items such as biros and credit cards as weapons.

Black grading includes full contact sparring against 4 attackers in low light, and "Aggression exercise to escape while restrained on floor by 2 attackers".

[MATT_LIQUID]

I'd love to train in krav maga!! It's the best street self defence in da world.

I read this sas self defence book. It was basicaly head butts, knee to the groin, punches to the neck, thumbes to the eyes.

[Sonshu]

The KM looded to me to be a slightly street orientated version of Shoot fighting - MT and wrestling/Jujitsu stuff.

Mainly cos the founders background was in Judo, Jujitsu and the like - it seems pretty effective with some very good knife defences.

I got invited to become an instructor but did not have the time to do it. It costed £1500 and you have to have done 3 years in a prefered striking system.

So you can be a good KM instructor or not so great - guess it depends on what you did before and how long you have been doing the KM for. Like any style I guess.

It looked to be pretty simple stuff - sort of military based easy stuff. Basically it looked like a lot of it worked. Dont know guess the guy demoing it was a high level rep for the style. Basically lots of kicking and punches with a few locks and some weapon techniques. VERY suspect gun defences though - still most are.

SONSHU

[crouton]

http://www.kravmaga.org.uk/red.htm
Grenade Defence - Grab hand with grenade firmly with both your hands. Attack with round kicks and knee strikes repeatedly & forcefully until attacker is incapacitated. Still firmly holding hand with grenade drop with knees onto his chest, trapping his arm between your knees. Prise open fingers and deal with grenade. NOTE: Grenade knowledge required.

if anyone took this class, id really like to hear their opinions on it. to me this isnt "realistic" self defense. if a guy has a grenade in his hands and wants to use it, he will. id rather spend my time running or praying. i also like the last sentance: "NOTE: Grenade knowledge required."

[PantherFist]

Didn't J-lo train in KM for one of her latest movies, somthing about her being physicaly abused by her husband, then taking up KM and kicking his butt

[Jim]

Yeah, the movie is called 'Enough'... I'll let you know what I think after I've seen it.

Unit 18 - Defense against threats involving Submachine gun.
Can I be Uke? :D

[Kwan Jang]

-some of our schools have Krav Maga as a secondary program (school within a school). My observation is that it's a good program for getting the average person who doesn't want to devote years of study, but willing to work hard, to a reasonably high level of street or combat effectiveness. It leaves a lot of the art and tradition of other systems out and goes to the heart of what most people would have to deal with. Example: Knife defenses. Most people who are assaulted w/ a knife are unaware that the subject had a weapon and thought they had been punched until they saw the amount of damage or the weapon was later recovered at the crime scene. KM deals w/ these types of movements and attacks. As a 23 year veteran of escrima/arnis, I would never personally use any of the KM techniques or strategy, since I know how they would play into the hands of an expert. However, they would be good for the more statistically common type of assault. If you were looking for a fairly quick route to no nonsense combat or street self defense, systems like Krav Maga, LYNXX, or CDT/LRTcan be very beneficial. Just my own evaluation/observation: I prefer the other two over KM. Lynxx due to it being more effective for dealing with skilled attackers as well. CDT for being more liability conscience and more of the population can physically do it.(requires less physical conditioning, less violent) while it's counterpart Last Resort Training is far more hardcore than KM.

[khafra]

Originally posted by crouton
http://www.kravmaga.org.uk/red.htm


if anyone took this class, id really like to hear their opinions on it. to me this isnt "realistic" self defense. if a guy has a grenade in his hands and wants to use it, he will. id rather spend my time running or praying. i also like the last sentance: "NOTE: Grenade knowledge required."
Depends on if he's suicidal or not--if you're already close, running might not be the best idea. A fragmentation grenade has a casualty radius of 15 meters, so their method might actually work. Again, depending on the psychological state of the wielder.

[BB Wolf]

Recently began training in KM after studying other Modern H2H styles and FMA over the last couple of years. Many of the schools are a bit slick and commercial, but the technique and training is good. It is a military -based system, which uses gross motor skills, instinctual movements, and direct, non-complex techniques to aggressively attack the enemy and quickly train its practicioners. I agree that the FMA knife techniques may be a bit more sophisiticated, but all in all, its a good combatives system.

[cane]

being an instructor of several disciplines and having gone through the krav system in near entirety i can safely say that the km people have a great marketing team.

[Scott194]

I've been taking Krav Maga for a month now and am waiting for level 2 testing. They emphasize giving the assailant a "BEATING" or neutralizing him, in other words. They work the living hell out of you and part of testing is to NOT EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER GIVE UP. To get to level 2 you must attend the 3 hour workshop and then you get a 5 minute break then they begin the level 2 testing, which is an 1 and a half hours. They basically beat you up and then test you and you can't show weakness. I went to the previous workshop, which was my first, and the next day was aching all over. I never imagined how sore I could ever get. Lots of sparring. Practice with multiple attackers. I wish I had taken it sooner.

[47Ronin]

the reason why it tells you how to deal with grenades is because the Israeli people actually went through that stuff and everyone in that country is trained in the military ways whether women or man.

I had a friend come out of Israel and his dad put him into Uechi Karate because it was the closest thing he could get to what he did to train.

up all night, come chat.

Regards

[Kempo Fighter]

As said before, Krav Maga was an israeli martial art designed to be practical, no kata's or anything, and since it was always battle-tested and revised, they started involving defense things like grenades, thats why its the Israeli military's official MA.

[Pericles]

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapap and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

To Tseek Choi,

Krav Maga is exhausting and painful when training with Israeli instructors, that is why it is also advertised as being a good work out. http://www.kravmagendavid.com/

Pericles

[DAT]

Scott194,

I was interested in seeing how your training is coming. I am interested in taking KM but am wondering about the quality control. What you described is exactly what I would like to do. After been in and out of ma for 30 years I can go for some good conditioning 3x a week with some serious self defense training.
What level are your instructors and did they train at the LA HQ? Thanks.

[Origami Itto]

I watched a Krav Maga demonstration a few days a go and it seemed to me that all the techniques were standard jujitsu techniques. Nothing flashy, just classic self defense oriented jujitsu (this means groin strikes, eye gouges etc) with some firearms defenses thrown in. I assume that they probably train as live as possible, but what is it that sets KM apart (it is supposed to be really effective)? Do they cover situational awareness, conflict diffusion/escalation and the like?

[The Kaiser]

I was thinking about taking Krav Maga, and I was wondering if someone could describe it in more detail. The information on the websites was great, but it'd be nice to have a little more info. Is it focused more on striking then grappling? Is the striking similar to boxing/kickboxing? Is there usually some form of sparring? Are there arm bars and similar things? Is there anything dealing with pressure points or nerves?

[creswell]

ive just begun krav maga classes - the techniques are the most practical and effective available. Hence the punching is very much boxing orientated and the kicks seem to emulate muay thai - there is sparring and locks/restraints. The creator of KM was a boxer and an expert in wrestling/jui jitsu -so it understandably has techniques from these disciplines. I couldnt say if it was more focused on striking or grappling only that it teaches elements from both.

One thing i would say, it is very difficult if not impossible for one martial art to teach comprehensively all aspects of combat. Therefore, if you want to learn grappling id say go do BJJ or sambo. But if you want a system that teaches the elements of everything (strikes, restraints, weapons) - to give the practitioner a well rounded knowledge - then KM can do this.

Furthermore it alludes to be nothing more than a system for self defence, therefore, there is very little tradition or rites - no particular uniform or gi/dobok is required either.

[king_dragon]

I've been involved in Krav-maga and kapap (a slightly different version used by the Israeli special forces and refined for the military) for 6 months now, if you want to learn MA to protect yourself on the street krav-maga is the MA for you, the moves are very basic and natural so it is far easier to remember than the complicated sets and patterns of MA's such as wushu or lau-gar, I train with a black belt tiger-crane kung-fu and he says the 2 years of krav-maga has been more useful that the 11 years of kung-fu. If you want to look good and break through brick walls do tae kwon do or a kung-fu, if you want to learn how to easily defend yourself in a street enviroment, learn KM. (im not dissing kung-fu or tae-kwon-do or any other traditional martial art, it's just that traditional arts are built around rules and ceremony as krav-maga there are no rules, im sure a wushu black belt could kick the crap outa a guy in a street but it would take him alot longer to learn how and will not know how to work from a disadvantaged position e.g. learn how to fight from the ground against a knifeman)

[andy bennett]

How the hell do you defend yourself against a grenade. Throw it back?

[Lord Spooky]

How the hell do you defend yourself against a grenade. Throw it back?


Grab the bloke next to you and throw him on top of it :D :D

[snow_tiger]

king dragon,
That's a pretty broad brush. You seem to lump all traditional MAs in with TKD and cardio-kickboxing, and maybe all instructors of the above? You find a good Chinese Hawaiian Kempo instructor and see how long it takes to become proficient in self defense. Or Wing Chun.

I understand the point you are making, as I have ventured into the study of CQC-type systems as an aside to traditional training. Hock Hochheim has a great one. KM looks pretty good. But not all traditional MAs are set up around tournies and kata-dance competitions. Many of them were set up for the same things the Israeli military wanted, just by Asian militaries/street fighters, etc...

(To speak to the particulars of you anecdotes:

I'm sorry it took your friend 11 years to find out he was in a bad system.

What is the extent of your MA training, outside of the 6 months of KM? Because, I have never, ever studied a MA system whose FIGHTING was based on rules. Again, take CH Kempo. It is trained from day 1 to go for vital areas. If your fight lasts more than 15 seconds, you failed. Wing Chun, we trained from day 1 on vital, repeated blows. If you are comparing KM to point-sparring schools, fine. But that is a straw man defence.)

Not to mention, KM borrowed its skillset from traditional MAs. There's something to be said for that.

Not trying to break your juevos, as I DO see the point you are making. But I see enough bravado and ego in traditional MAs themselves-- much less having it creep into the offshoots.

Take care!

[king_dragon]

You make a good point snow_tiger, To be fair I have a very limited knowledge of traditional martial arts so I didn't have much of a base to make comments on, Im taught in lau-Ga kung-fu and it is very regimented (and it probaly should be), plus limited amounts of Tae-kwon-do and shukokai karate,and thats all I could really compare it too, I was just basing my opinions on other Krav maga practicioners ect, and I found it refreshing to have more of a free style to add your personal strengths into, thanks for feedback

[snow_tiger]

No problem, KD. I kind of thought this might be the case. Thanks to you too, and take care.

[Faminedynasty]

My friend ramon served in the Israeli military, and he seems to have been trained in horribly brutal fighting techniques. Strikes to the groin, eye gouging, ripping out throats and breaking limbs and whatnot.

[Legless_Marine]

being an instructor of several disciplines and having gone through the krav system in near entirety i can safely say that the km people have a great marketing team.

Beautifully said!

[AAAhmed46]

How does krav maga compare to Silat mubai?

Concept wise, they both seem very similar.

[Sandy]

Hi,

Is there anyone here who's tried the Krav Maga school in Brighton, UK?

I've been involved in Krav-maga and kapap (a slightly different version used by the Israeli special forces and refined for the military) ... I didn't know that Kapap was taught much in the UK. Do you learn both at the same place? What differences are there between them?

If you were looking for a fairly quick route to no nonsense combat or street self defense, systems like Krav Maga, LYNXX, or CDT/LRTcan be very beneficial. Does anywhere in the UK teach LYNXX or CDT/LRT? I have not heard of these.

Cheers :)

[WVNicholson]

How does krav maga compare to Silat mubai?

Concept wise, they both seem very similar.

I'm not so sure about that. I've dabbled a tiny bit in silat (read Bob Orlando's book and done some kuntao silat in my eskrima classes) and also I've done some training in krav maga. Silat mubai - like some other styles of silat - is kind of modern in considering firearms as does krav maga. Bob Orlando's book "Indonesian Fighting Fundamentals" describes some general principles - adhesion, whiplash, shearing, etc - that I do not think are really in krav maga (although maybe some individual techniques use some of them). Silat is really an enormous family of Indonesian, Malaysian, Brunei and some Southern Phillipine MAs so I'm not sure how much Orlando's book generalises to them though and of course he wasn't writing about silat mubai specifically. Silat uses plenty of strikes of course but it may be a bit more grappling oriented than krav maga. Krav maga tends to keep things simple to train people up in a short time. Silat (and FMAs) uses limb destructions - krav maga doesn't really do this - at least not in a big way (as David Kahn's krav maga book does mention guntings briefly I think). Silat mubai uses jurus (basically the same thing as forms or katas) in training - krav maga does not. Silat mubai probably has somewhat more weapons training than krav maga. Krav maga does quite a lot in the way of empty-handed defences against weapons (including firearm disarms at close quarters) and use of sticks and common objects but I don't think the civilian krav maga syllabus includes use of knives and firearms although some krav maga schools may supplement the krav maga training with knife and firearm training from other systems (especially in the US where they may be able to use such weapons in self defence depending on the state, etc). Although there is probably some, I guess there is not a great deal of direct exchange of techniques between silat styles and Israeli MAs for cultural and political reasons,
William

[Khilap]

I'm not so sure about that. I've dabbled a tiny bit in silat (read Bob Orlando's book and done some kuntao silat in my eskrima classes) and also I've done some training in krav maga. Silat mubai - like some other styles of silat - is kind of modern in considering firearms as does krav maga. Bob Orlando's book "Indonesian Fighting Fundamentals" describes some general principles - adhesion, whiplash, shearing, etc - that I do not think are really in krav maga (although maybe some individual techniques use some of them). Silat is really an enormous family of Indonesian, Malaysian, Brunei and some Southern Phillipine MAs so I'm not sure how much Orlando's book generalises to them though and of course he wasn't writing about silat mubai specifically. Silat uses plenty of strikes of course but it may be a bit more grappling oriented than krav maga. Krav maga tends to keep things simple to train people up in a short time. Silat (and FMAs) uses limb destructions - krav maga doesn't really do this - at least not in a big way (as David Kahn's krav maga book does mention guntings briefly I think). Silat mubai uses jurus (basically the same thing as forms or katas) in training - krav maga does not. Silat mubai probably has somewhat more weapons training than krav maga. Krav maga does quite a lot in the way of empty-handed defences against weapons (including firearm disarms at close quarters) and use of sticks and common objects but I don't think the civilian krav maga syllabus includes use of knives and firearms although some krav maga schools may supplement the krav maga training with knife and firearm training from other systems (especially in the US where they may be able to use such weapons in self defence depending on the state, etc). Although there is probably some, I guess there is not a great deal of direct exchange of techniques between silat styles and Israeli MAs for cultural and political reasons,
William
I have trained Kuntao for quite a few years and some Silat also. I trained KM a few years ago for a month an donly for the reason that I moved to another town and want ti to keep the training similar to Kuntao or Silat. All I can say is that I feel sorry for those that have spend many years in a style that they think it sucks for Self Defense or no-rules fighting or Street fighting. Because so far I have been able to hold myself decently against assaults by more then one attacker and grapplers and it wasn't because of the KM. KM is good but any style if trained for the reason that it was created originally not for points or to win medals or to win a cage match should give what KM offers and perhaps even more. The body can only move in so many ways.

what is describe in the above quote and the authors included is only the tip of the iceberg that Kuntao and Silat can offer to anyone. I speak about the Kuntao and Silat I practice can't really say anything about other Kuntao or Silat styles since I do not know all of them.

[Ska-theory]

From what i've picked up from KM, its principle reason for existence-

like for example with Wing Chun is direct and simple blocking/striking without need for strength, or Judo for taking people down without hurting them, or Tai Chi for using the internal energies, and so forth-

is death, maiming, mutilation and more death. I've sat down and read a chapter or two about the moves and they aren't very nice, and i was thinking to myself, I'm sure other martial arts have less harsh ways of dealing with having your leg seized mid-kick*.


*the KM method being to hop towards your enemy and conviscate his eyeballs.

[manofleisure]

I have a friend who made a purchase from these guys and they B.S. him and took his money in a shady way,no customer support but an email saying," what do you want", and then no response after the fact.

Also some of there instructors in the U.S. are those that don't seem to stick with the other sytems they have trained in for whatever reason. (hint hint)

They are also selling product certification courses in other folks designed goods (travel wrench)

These guys give no respect to the arts of arnis or silat,and the fact that theyfoster the whole combative terrorist theme is that of gimmick more the concern for you folks going into deep concern about the war in Iraq.This alone should tell you all you need to know about these knock off martial artist.

Stay away from these clowns and learn the arts of arnis and silat from the dedicated teachers and students of these systems like it was always done before and it is for the most part,still done today.

[reel deel]

Well well, A lets slag Krav Maga posting, This is a suprise (That's sarcasm by the way)
I've been practising Krav Maga quite awhile now and having already tried many traditional arts (I'm a 5th dan in 3 different styles of Kenpo) I have found Krav Maga to not only be the best for me, I found that the lack of ritual, putting instructors on pedestals and the wearing of silly pajamas quite refreshing.
I am sure there are people who use the Krav Maga name to rip people off, in fact I've no doubt about it, but then there are the same sort of cowboys who claim to be experts in every single martial art on the face of the earth, claiming to know secret techniques and to fear no man you cannot blame a single style for the possibly illegal activities of a few.
Krav Maga isn't nice, it doesn't look pretty but then neither does a real fight! Sadly most traditional martial artists have never been in a real fight but claim they can destroy anyone blah! Blah! Blah.
Krav Maga is a modern style tried and tested on the streets of Israel in the most turbulent period of its short history, the majority of today's traditional arts cannot claim to be effective in the modern world as they were designed to combat people who wore armour carried swords and followed strong ethical honour codes, there is no honour on the streets of the modern era.
Kapap Lotar is the forerunner of Krav Maga and is more involved with grappling locks nerve point attacks, it was originally taught to the Palmach (Israeli Special forces during WW2, by the Long range desert group or as it is known now the SAS, the CQC techniques were those taught by Captain William Ewart Fairbairn (Royal Marines) to the British commandos, the SOE and the OSS, the original intention was to teach these skills to 1000 Israeli commandos, however they in turn taught the art secretly to 2000 more enabling them to field 3000 trained commandos in all. fairbairn's originally designed the program so that it could be taught to soldiers in six weeks. so that soldeir could be quickly trained and in the field in a short time. Every Civillian in Israel is a soldier for their country, that is why the civilian version of Krav Maga was designed by Imi Lichtenfield to be quicker and easier to learn without loosing any of its devastating techniques, I always had my doubts about my orignal art of Kenpo to many usless flowery techniques
There is knife fighting in Krav Maga (realistic knife fighting one cut one death, not the pointless thousand cuts of other systems, we have stick fighting simple and direct.)
Krav Maga does not rest upon it laurels neither, they are constantly refining and upgrading techniques getting the feed back they need from the practitioners that are on the front line, special agents,special forces soldiers law enforcement officers bodyguards and lowly door men like myself, and they listen. They do not say this is how its always been done and how it will always be done because thats the way it was written in the ancient scrolls. How many can claim that about there art.
And as for politics (breathes a sigh of relief) there is none no interference no one telling you what to do etc.
Since starting Krav Maga I've become close freinds with my instructor, who values my input, he has never even charged me for a lesson because he says my input is invaluable and my Krav Maga membership was half price.
Then there is the mature supportive atmosphere of the entire class.
To the guy who's freind got ripped off by unscrupulous people, whoever it was they were not connected to Krav Maga international as they claim.
Krav Maga by David Khan is an excellent beginners book but the bible for Krav Maga is "How to defend yourself against armed attack" by Imi Lichtenfield ans Eyal Yanilov.
Krav Maga is viscious yes, but it is only ever used as a last resort, when all else has failed.

[reel deel]

http://www.kravmaga.org.uk/red.htm


if anyone took this class, id really like to hear their opinions on it. to me this isnt "realistic" self defense. if a guy has a grenade in his hands and wants to use it, he will. id rather spend my time running or praying. i also like the last sentance: "NOTE: Grenade knowledge required."

this is a technique of Krav Maga disarming a handgrenade from a potential terrorist but not in the way you describe, this has been tested in the field by the Palmach and it would not be included in the syllabus if it did not work.
a grenade is only dangerous when the pin is released the idea is to hold the grenade in the attackers hand so he cannot deploy it, the actual technique is taken from akido and jiu jitsu.

[pj_goober]

I recently bought a couple of books on Krav Maga out of general martial arts interest, and i was rather disappointed, i was expecting some interesting and practical techniques. The system to me (i admit only through reading a couple of books) seems very heavily reliant on groin strikes (which are overratted generally IMO) and other "nasties" as well as some dubious tactics on dealing with multiple attackers..

However the fact that i was disappointed that the techniques were very basic, probably means its effective - after all we all know that flashy complicated techniques are unreliable.

I expect that KM is highly effective as a street art - if thats what you want from your training, then go for it. If like me you want to learn an art, and all that entails (rather than street fighting) then its probably not the style for you.

[tellner]

Umm, reel deel, there weren't any Israeli Special Forces during WWII. There wasn't an Israel yet.

[Storms of War]

Just for the heck of it, here's a cool Krav Maga video I found a while back-

http://www.kravmaga.nu/videos/kma.wmv

[pj_goober]

ok, now i'm less convinced..that video just looked like bad ju-jitsu with some gun defences thrown in. (oh and lots of striking)

[Storms of War]

ok, now i'm less convinced..that video just looked like bad ju-jitsu with some gun defences thrown in. (oh and lots of striking)
Obviously they can't go full force in demo's. If they went all out, they'd walk away blind and incapable of having children. I can't argue with you that it didn't look too great. It looked well rehearsed. It wasn't natural looking at all. If you get past that and can accept that they weren't going all out, it's not too bad.

[pj_goober]

oh, i don't doubt that KM is effective. its pretty well proven in the field as it were...

just that demo was a bit rubbish..

[reel deel]

Umm, reel deel, there weren't any Israeli Special Forces during WWII. There wasn't an Israel yet.

The Palmach was a commando group trained by the British, they trained a thousand Jewish (Soon to be Israeli) commandos, these thousand men in turn trained another two thousand men, so by the Time Israel declared independance they had Three thousand Palmach in the field, the Palmach is still the name of Israel's elite commando unit and I believe that all of those born into the Jewish faith have to serve in the israeli army, this would make these jews,Israelis, If you ask a follower of this faith how long there has been an Israel he will probably tell you something like 'as long as God has decreed it'

[reel deel]

I recently bought a couple of books on Krav Maga out of general martial arts interest, and i was rather disappointed, i was expecting some interesting and practical techniques. The system to me (i admit only through reading a couple of books) seems very heavily reliant on groin strikes (which are overratted generally IMO) and other "nasties" as well as some dubious tactics on dealing with multiple attackers..

However the fact that i was disappointed that the techniques were very basic, probably means its effective - after all we all know that flashy complicated techniques are unreliable.

I expect that KM is highly effective as a street art - if thats what you want from your training, then go for it. If like me you want to learn an art, and all that entails (rather than street fighting) then its probably not the style for you.

Hi PJ
We have found that based on natural body movement when the jaw is struck hard with a palm heel strike, the entire body arches thus presenting the groin as a viable and now hard to defend target, but this will work ONLY id the proprer strike is initated.
I have used this technique in the street in my own defence and can swear to it's effectiveness.
As you have quite rightly stated, Krav Maga is a highly effective street defence, it is not however an art.
I would like to add that as I have stated before Krav Maga is always updating and refining it's techniques, so some defences seen in the books may have already have changed.
We have also discovered that there are cultural factors that can be added in too for instance my instructor told me that on a seminar trip to Poland, our Polish colleagues were amazed at the British techniques of head butting and biting (I don't mean that these techniques actually were invented in Britain, I'm just saying that these tecniques were in the British version of Krav Maga but not the Polish) as they had never seen these before, when my instructor went back the following year the Polish Krav Maga practioners were head butting and biting left right and centre, we are also encouraged to study other arts and we also have regular guest instructors, (From silat, kali,JKD,BJJ, and Boxing thus far, we learn these things and apply them to our Krav Maga by breaking them down and examining them closely, so Birmigham Krav, might be slightly different to Essex or Brighton or Dublin. I also study JKD which compliments Krav Maga well and the applications and the science behind JKD is useful for examing all of the many new techniques we may encompass into our art. Like my instructor says, "If it works it's Krav Maga."

[reel deel]

oh, i don't doubt that KM is effective. its pretty well proven in the field as it were...

just that demo was a bit rubbish..

Seen many a crap demo in all different styles, some over rehearsed so under, I have some DVD's of Krav demo's that are really bad, but they are not professional actors, and I have a couple of DVD's with actual use of Krav in the field as videoed by Israeli soldiers for evidence gathering purposes in operations against terrorist suspects and there is no doubt as to it's effectiveness

[NaziKiller]

The Palmach was a commando group trained by the British, they trained a thousand Jewish (Soon to be Israeli) commandos, these thousand men in turn trained another two thousand men, so by the Time Israel declared independance they had Three thousand Palmach in the field, the Palmach is still the name of Israel's elite commando unit and I believe that all of those born into the Jewish faith have to serve in the israeli army, this would make these jews,Israelis, If you ask a follower of this faith how long there has been an Israel he will probably tell you something like 'as long as God has decreed it'

The Palmach was disbanded in the 70's. The two most highly valued commando units in the IDF are Shayetet 13 and Sayeret MATCAL. To stay on topic, I find everything in Krav Maga to be most effective other than the ranking system (because I honestly don't like belts and dans and such).

[oosh]

I had a series of krav maga dvds (i forget the name) I was impressed with the empty hand applications, but some of the knife defense looked a wee bit on the dangerous side.

[tellner]

I had a friend who had the poor luck to be in the Golani Brigade during the October war. I asked him about KM. He said "The taught us to grab the other guy and elbow him until he fell down."

Now that's direct and practical :)

[robertmap]

Hi All,

KM is <IMNSHO> great in the same way that Wing Chun is great - take someone with no martial arts knowledge but with 'fire in the belly' train them for a relatively short space of time and you have a 'street' capable fighter.

The disadvantage is when the person who has had a little KM training thinks he is 'THE MAN' and goes up against someone better trained... I have heard a story (AND IT MAY BE UNTRUE) of Israeli special forces (covert ops) NOT coming back from an assignment due to their having had enough KM training to get themselves into trouble but not enough training to see things through....

OF COURSE the same could be said for any martial art - indeed one only has to look at 'story line 101' from any Hong Kong Kung Fu movie to see the young hero getting his ass whipped by the bad guy because he hasn't learnt enough yet... The difference being that in the movies the young hero gets to live to fight another day... In the real world... Sometimes things are not so forgiving :(

Of course I do admit that having trained briefly with both Eyal Yanilov (KM) and Vladimir Vasiliev (Systema) - I would love to watch the two of them trade techniques... <What is the emoticon for an evil grin>

All the best.

Robert.

[Flipper]

Image removed - Freeform

[KenpoDavid]

There's a school in my neighborhood that offers ATA TKD, aerobic kickboxing, and krav maga. The owner is a 25 yr old 4th dan in ATA TKD. I don't know his rank in aerobic kickboxing or krav maga.

I did talk to one of his students about krav a while back, he said he likes it because it is an agressive class and they work on "lots of different stuff". <shrug> it seems to me like gimmicky marketing.

[shendu]

I saw somthing on blackbelt magazine that was quite disturbing in a way. There was a krav maga article where one of the pictures showd a defence from gun point where the defender had the attackers hand locked to the d's chest with the gun pointing upwards, now correct me if im wrong wouldn't the bullet a) recoil and blow his own head off or b) severely blind him from the flash if the pistol was fired. I personanly am a bit worried if this is what people are being thaught to do in these situations

[Sandy]

Hello everyone,

I've just tried Krav Maga and was surprisingly impressed. (Like any art, the instructor's more important than the style, so I was clearly lucky to have had a good instructor.)

Here's what impressed me:
- It was very functional. I've been assaulted in the past and could see the training working.
- It was reality-based in the best sense of the phrase, such as drilling you to run from a knife attack as soon as possible (as opposed to trading blows) .
- The instructor, who was very senior in Krav Maga, talked about bringing in guests experts from whom to learn. I liked his openess, which is a breath fresh air compared to some clubs.
- Drills included using your mouth (your best weapon :) ), distraction and guile, and different uses of the fence. It's the first club at which I've trained that included prominent training in these.

Yes, many people know these things. However, how much focus do most clubs put on training them regularly? None of my previous clubs spent any time on them, that's for sure.

I plan to continue to cross-train in Krav Maga and can certainly recommend the club in Brighton & Hove:
www.krav-maga.org.uk/index.php?mod=brighton

Cheers :)

[colin75]

So does anyone know whats actually distincitve about Krav Maga, I know its a purely combative style but what are the emphasis's on in training?

Col
hi there i am a commando krav maga instructor in london and i can tell you all that to become a instructor you have to have experience in either military or martial arts a clean criminal background, you must pass a telephone interview with our cheif instructor and founder Moni aizik and then you go on to pass possibley the most gruelling course there is to find out more here is moni's website www.Commandokravmaga.com
hope this has helped a little

[Sandy]

Hi Colin,

Do you know what's happening about the Commando Krav Maga seminar in London this year?

I had booked and paid for a place, but now see that the seminar's no longer listed on the CKM web site:
www.combatsurvival.com/html/seminars_training.html

Would you know if this means it's sold out or cancelled?

Cheers

[colin75]

Hi there Sandy
I must admit that im not to sure but if you contact stewart Mcgill, his website is www.kravmaga-eastlondon.com he should know all about it.
Sorry i cant be of more help, hope you get a chance to try out ckm soon
all the best
Colin o Connor

[Sandy]

Hi colin75,

Cheers for the web site. I followed a link from there to here (www.commandokravmaga.co.uk), where I found contact details for CKM in the UK. I'll get in touch.

I'm not long back from some krav maga training in Israel (www.kravmaga.co.il) - which I highly recommend - and hope to get the chance to try CKM too.

All the best

[Gerry290]

You can also look at Tactical Krav Maga...

Main site is www.tacticalkravmaga.com.au (http://www.tacticalkravmaga.com.au)

It is a very simple sytem of Krav Maga...used to train the Yamam (Israeli Counter Terroist Team) and developed by Itay Gil who was in Yamam and also trained them after see www.protect-usa.com (http://www.protect-usa.com) for information on Itay Gil.

The training alot of the drills are full contact, and we use protective gear to get as real as possible to a street situation.

I did a few styles of KM and I find Tactical Krav Maga suits me the best.

I am going to be teaching Tactical Krav Maga Self Defence Thailand soon, see my site www.kravmagathailand.com (http://www.kravmagathailand.com)

I guess Tactical Krav Maga is another "style" of Krav Maga!

[kravpest]

this is a technique of Krav Maga disarming a handgrenade from a potential terrorist but not in the way you describe, this has been tested in the field by the Palmach and it would not be included in the syllabus if it did not work.
a grenade is only dangerous when the pin is released the idea is to hold the grenade in the attackers hand so he cannot deploy it, the actual technique is taken from akido and jiu jitsu.

Thanks Reel Deel, this and your previous post spared me a lot of typing.

However, it's the spoon that is held down. The technique is similar to one of Krav's more common knife take-aways. Lots of Krav's techniques are nicely integrated like that. In Isreal, unlike the States, military, police, and security personel are trained to move toward a threat and give their lives to save bystanders. If you must stop a threat holding a grenade, you are still likely to lose. This technique is the best Israel has come up with to give you some kind of chance to survive that threat, and of course if possible you should approach from behind. It tries to make the best of a very very bad situation, that in Israel is more likely to come up than where I, or most of the posters on this thread live.

[kravpest]

As long as We're all throwing in our groups' urls, Here's the address for the only U.S. Krav group still in touch with and endorsed by the top instructors in Isreal.

HERE (http://www.kravmagafederation.com/index.html)

Nice short lineage.
-Imi Lichtenfeld, the founder of Krav Maga.
-Haim Zut, the current Grand Master in Israel acknowledged by the Wingate Institute.
-Rhon Mizrachi, the highest ranking practitioner of Krav Maga residing in the United States who is not self-ranked.

[Unsung Hero]

This is probably a bit off topic, but I saw it was a krav maga thread and I would really appreciate the help.

I have a friend who's really interested in getting into martial arts, something practical but effective, so I thought Krav Maga would be the way to go. I looked around online, but the closest school I can find to my location is Livonia, michigan. Does anyone know of a school that would be in maybe Ann Arbor, MI? Or at least somewhere near there?

[kravsystems]

We run Krav Maga classes all over the Midlands ion the UK. Please see my website for more details www.krav.co.uk

[progdan]

In Australia, I believe we follow the IKMF, Eyal Yanilov was Imi Lichtenfield's student and closest advisor and became the Director of IKMF with Imi's blessing when Imi passed away. My instructor is the Director under Eyal for Australia/New Zealand, and was graded by Eyal and his team in Israel. He runs www.sdtactics.com.au which is where I began training at the start of this year.

Because it is a system to teach Israeli soldiers to survive basically (remember that military service is compulsory, so most of them are coming from civilian background), it is extremely efficient, and non-flashy, yet able to be taught and utilized in a very short space of time. I've been learning for 3 months now, and I'd by no means call myself an expert, but even in that short time, training a few nights a week, I've learned concepts and techniques, which are highly logical and efficient and useful for defense against the sorts of assaults one might experience in a basic street altercation. Although it comes across as quite aggressive, that is mainly the military stream, in the civilian stream, they basically teach you, if you can, run. If you can't, do what you need to do to extricate yourself from the situation and then run. You have to make the call as far as how much force is necessary to be able to do that. This is basically at the very lowest level of experience, obviously every situation is different, and they try to teach you how to deal with as many as they can as you improve.

Additional note: I have heard, but don't quote me on it, that Matt Damon in the three 'Jason Bourne' movies is using Krav Maga techniques in his fighting? I haven't watched them since I've been training, so I'll have to again sometime to see...