Do you have a root?

[futsaowingchun]

Do you have Root?

A lot of people who begin taking up a martial art for the first time, such as Wing Chun, tend to be overly eager. Many just want to learn the "good stuff" and jump right into advanced training. Beginner martial artists try to take short cuts by spending as little time as possible on the basics, bypassing the "hard, boring, and mundane" aspects of training like developing a strong root.

What they fail to realize is that a strong root is essential to building a good foundation in preparation for advanced training. Simply put, without a strong root you have no gung fu. What does a strong root really mean? Without a solid root, one's techniques will simply not work against someone with a developed root, and ones attack and defense will lack the necessary force to deal with their opponent's attack. A person who has failed to develop a strong root is like a house of cards, apply modest pressure and it totally collapses .Also a person devoid of a root has no real structure and can be controlled easily by one who is rooted. Without structure, this type of person must rely solely on brute force or sectional power to generate force (such as the power of only the hand or foot.) Although this type of power can be great, it is unconnected from the whole body and lacks the power which comes from one's root.

When issuing force from the root, however, whole body power is used. This power originates from one's root and is connected from the ground-up and transmitted through one's structure. Not just the portion of the hand or leg is used, but the whole connected body. This power is unbroken like the chain on a bicycle. When released; the force feels like being hit by a tidal wave or a sudden shock wave. This type of power is what gives the smaller person the ability to generate a tremendous amount of power compared to someone who relays solely on his arms or legs. In the old days of the great masters, you often heard about persons of a small stature who were able to defeat larger foes with their ability to deliver power beyond the normal. I'm sure such great masters from the past, must have spent a lot of time on their foundations and had tremendous root in order to accomplish these great feats. Besides basic horse and stance training another very useful way to develop a strong and stable root is from regular Chi Sao practice.

(The practice of Chi Sao is unique to the Wing Chun system.) By regular practice, one feels what it is like to have their root and structure tested continuously. This is very useful in root training. The constant forward pressure from ones opponent during Chi Sao is a great way to test the root. One must learn to channel this pressure from the structure into the ground, and issue power from the ground though ones structure. If your root is weak one will simply fall over or lose balance. This is the basic and most invaluable skill one should develop in order to advance to higher levels of training in Chi Sao.

In my opinion, one should not concentrate to much on fancy or complicated techniques in the beginning. The focus should be on learning how to root. Fancy hand techniques or combinations may seem impressive to the beginner, but without a solid root all those techniques go out the window. Without a firm foundation, one will not be able to issue any stopping power to one's opponent, or have the ability to use his structure. One will simply have to rely on external factors like speed and brute force to overcome their opponent. In conclusion, without a root, hands have no meaning and are neutralized and nullified. Without root, there is no gung fu.

By Sifu Michael McIlwrath
__________________

[Darryl]

Hi,
Just a small point...you will find many Chinese Styles practise a form/or forms of Chi Sau.
We have Luk Sau, Bay Say and Chi Sau. Ours though are practised from the start - as freestyle with no set drills.
Doesn't Tai Chi Chuan have pushing hands...which is very similar in principle.

[futsaowingchun]

Hi,
Just a small point...you will find many Chinese Styles practise a form/or forms of Chi Sau.
We have Luk Sau, Bay Say and Chi Sau. Ours though are practised from the start - as freestyle with no set drills.
Doesn't Tai Chi Chuan have pushing hands...which is very similar in principle.


Hi, yes your right many kung-fu styles have some sort of chi sao like exercise. Tai chi has push hands, but unlike Tai chi push hands wing chun chi sao is used for hitting the opponet. Tai chi is mainly concerned with up rooting and fa ginging you,so both have similiar ideas but applied differently. Also in Fut Sao wing Chun we also do our Chi Sao free form. Almost like close range fighting.

[Darryl]

Hi,
Yes no probs, but I did say OURS ...(My style)

"Ours though are practised from the start - as freestyle with no set drills." I didn't say other styles 'did' or 'did not'.

You said ..."so both have similiar ideas but applied differently".

I didn't say any different.

Please understand the word 'principle.'

Ideas, principles and concepts are much more important than techniques or training drills.

Yes I do know some Wing Chun. I have many friends from this style. Also...Yes I have been to Fotsan and Hong Kong.
I am not knocking any art here, or how they are practised. - They all have value.

Regards

D.

[futsaowingchun]

Hi,
Yes no probs, but I did say OURS ...(My style)

"Ours though are practised from the start - as freestyle with no set drills." I didn't say other styles 'did' or 'did not'.

You said ..."so both have similiar ideas but applied differently".

I didn't say any different.

Please understand the word 'principle.'

Ideas, principles and concepts are much more important than techniques or training drills.

Yes I do know some Wing Chun. I have many friends from this style. Also...Yes I have been to Fotsan and Hong Kong.
I am not knocking any art here, or how they are practised. - They all have value.

Regards

D.


Oh sorry..Just a little confused today...anyway,,I agree with you. Keep up the good work..

[xshaolinkidx]

just a quick addition. yes i completely agree that people training now tend to try to SKIP the basics and go to the advanced, therefore never developing a strong root, and as a consequence will never be a formidable fighter. but you forget that its not just NOW that this happens. it has been like that since the beginning of martial arts. haha thats why we have legends like we do. only a select few REALLY get good, and those are the ones that pay attention to detail. others come and go, but those with a root stay forever. Also its not just in martial arts but EVERY art. those who decide to learn and completely MASTER every technique in their art will truly become an artist, but many don't. so many musicians skip basics or can't read music, so they never become great, and so on.

good post guys

ok so what small things have you guys learned or discovered to develop a stronger root?

[futsaowingchun]

just a quick addition. yes i completely agree that people training now tend to try to SKIP the basics and go to the advanced, therefore never developing a strong root, and as a consequence will never be a formidable fighter. but you forget that its not just NOW that this happens. it has been like that since the beginning of martial arts. haha thats why we have legends like we do. only a select few REALLY get good, and those are the ones that pay attention to detail. others come and go, but those with a root stay forever. Also its not just in martial arts but EVERY art. those who decide to learn and completely MASTER every technique in their art will truly become an artist, but many don't. so many musicians skip basics or can't read music, so they never become great, and so on.

good post guys

ok so what small things have you guys learned or discovered to develop a stronger root?


In one word pressure. Learning to deal with your opponents pressure.

[xshaolinkidx]

In one word pressure. Learning to deal with your opponents pressure.

learning to deal, sounds too much to me like like bending to it. i was talking about things like diffusing leverage and movement of your center

[Infrazael]

What is root? How do you (personally) define it? And how do you develop this root?

Because there are dozens of Chinese martial art styles. And some are completely different, even opposite. And yet, are they suppose to develop "root" the same way?

And while we're at it, do boxers, thai boxers, or karate fighters also have root? What about wrestlers, judo, or jujitsu fighters? How would you define their "root," if they had one and also would it be different than a kung fu fighter?

[ThunderSmith]

I think the point they are trying to get across is a lot of the stuff above being extremely useful techniques and skills to help you become a better fighter. Alot of these techniques are quite simple and basic, they're not particularly complex or hard to do initially but building these up early in your training helps to benefit you more over time.

I've heard many people mention the rooting power of the horse stance. In a good horse stance it should be pretty difficult for someone to knock you down. The strength and stability of the stance makes it harder to be knocked down. But you can't master it in a night, it takes time to train like everything else. A fairly basic but incredibly useful thing in my eye.

I don't know a great deal on chi sao apart from that I've done it about twice in training, it's something to do with understanding people's reflexes and trying yourself to react both mentally and physically. Again something that needs a bit of time to master.

I think many styles have their own unique techniques that are like this even if they're not as well known as a horse stance or chi sao. There's probably a good few in pretty much all martials arts whether japanese, chinese, thai, or western. They may not just be practiced as much as others.

[Infrazael]

Yes, but the author of this article doesn't really explain in great detail his opinion of "root." And whether he thinks root is specific to CMA, or Wing Chun, or are there different "types" or root spread out between schools of CMA, and martial arts from other regions?

[YouKnowWho]

There are 2 kind of roots, the static root and dynamic root.

The static root is the ability to be able to redirect the incoming force to the ground through your legs without affecting your own balance. Here is an example of good static root:

http://johnswang.com/bounce.wmv

The dynamic root is the ability to be able to give up your own root and then regain it back later. After you have thrown your opponent over your head, if you can still mantain your own balance, you have good dynamic root.

The dynamic root is also the ability to be able to take your opponent's root as your own root. Here is one example.

http://johnswang.com/sc1.wmv

IMO, the dynamic root is much more useful and important than the static root.

[geezer]

There are 2 kind of roots, the static root and dynamic root...

IMO, the dynamic root is much more useful and important than the static root.

I have been using those same terms, "static" and "dynamic" since the 80's to describe stance stability. It's nice to know that it is actually an established distinction (I thought I just made it up). Anyway, my old sifu used to place tremendous emphasis on static root, including being strongly rooted even when standing on one leg! And, he did have an incredibly strong static stance, effortlessly performing moves like the one in your clip.

On the other hand, I was constantly ridiculed for my weak static stance. I suffer from bone-fusions in my ankles which make it physiologicly impossible for me to correctly assume some of the classical stance positions. On the other hand I was raised doing motion sports like skiing, waterskiing, bicycling, skateboarding, and so on... not to mention arts like wrestling. Dynamic balance comes more naturally to me. And I found that in sparring, I surprised a lot of my classmates who kidded me for not being stable when standing still. While I recognize the value of static balance, I agree that dynamic balance is more critical in a dynamic situation like sparring or fighting. I always compare it to riding a bicycle. Learning how to balance on a bike while standing still is really tough, and probably won't be of much use in learning how to ride a mountain-bike over rough terrain. Still, I'm always struggling to improve my static root as well.

[YouKnowWho]

If your opponent attacks the 90 degree angle from your feet line (line defined by 2 feet), your balance is always weak. If you can spin your body 90 degree and move one of your feet and readjust your feet line so you feet line will be the same as the direction that your opponent attacks, you will have strong root. IMO, a strong root is the ability to spin your body at the right moment.

[geezer]

If your opponent attacks the 90 degree angle from your feet line (line defined by 2 feet), your balance is always weak. If you can spin your body 90 degree and move one of your feet and readjust your feet line so you feet line will be the same as the direction that your opponent attacks, you will have strong root. IMO, a strong root is the ability to spin your body at the right moment.

I would call that "positioning" or "alignment", and it's true that getting a good position relative to your opponent will make your stance stronger. But I see "root" as something more subtle. Even when two people are square to each other... that is standing face to face with their feet side by side (with the "foot-line" you described parallel to that of their opponent) it is possible to have a stronger root than your opponent. Both sinking and being flexible and yielding play a role. Think Tai Chi.

[Ciar2001]

In Chowgar you don't realise that you begin developing root from the first day you start, it starts from first form all the way through, the longer you train the better and more obvious it becomes, that's I see root anyways.

[Anorhyme]

On the other hand, I was constantly ridiculed for my weak static stance. I suffer from bone-fusions in my ankles which make it physiologicly impossible for me to correctly assume some of the classical stance positions. .

That should have no effect on developing the parts of your body involved in rooting. Your feet are just platforms. They could be wood or metal, it doesn't matter.

Your root comes from your center and extends out past whatever is at the end of your leg.

[geezer]

That should have no effect on developing the parts of your body involved in rooting. Your feet are just platforms. They could be wood or metal, it doesn't matter.

Yeah that's why there are so many amputees with prosthetic legs that are push-hands and chi-sau adepts. Did I ever tell you about my great great great grand-uncle Ahab? Boy, could he ever root after that whale took his leg!

[YouKnowWho]

If your opponent can push your center to be outside of your base, you will fall. If your body has some build in vibration power that can cancel out any outside force, any outside force cannot change the relationship between your center and your base, you have good rooting.

[Anorhyme]

Yeah that's why there are so many amputees with prosthetic legs that are push-hands and chi-sau adepts. Did I ever tell you about my great great great grand-uncle Ahab? Boy, could he ever root after that whale took his leg!

Good Morning Hater. How are you today?

[CFT]

That should have no effect on developing the parts of your body involved in rooting. Your feet are just platforms. They could be wood or metal, it doesn't matter.

Your root comes from your center and extends out past whatever is at the end of your leg.Geezer has a valid point. He's not talking about just the feet, he's talking about his ankles. If you have no range of motion in your joints then you have no means of adjusting and routing incoming force through your structure. You would just topple over like a statue.

[ANGELSGYMSINGH]

Thanks John and Geezer. That exchange of ideas concerning the terminology and application of such was powerful and informative.

[G.L]

How would oneself train his/her reaction time or reflexes?

[Sandy]

... do boxers, thai boxers, or karate fighters also have root? What about wrestlers, judo, or jujitsu fighters? How would you define their "root," if they had one and also would it be different than a kung fu fighter?

There are similarities and differences. When I cross-trained at my local boxing club, I was taught to root just before launching a punch or combination of punches. It was never called "rooting", but was taught nonetheless. Lorne Bernard's Shaolin White Crane Kung Fu book teaches about power just the same as my first boxing lesson:

"Power ... comes up through the feet and legs and out to the fists."

In Thai boxing - my core art - I was taught balance rather than rooting. However, you're taught to set up yout footwork before striking. This has some similarities to rooting, but the principles conveyed to me were being in the right position to strike and being in balance.

Likewise, wrestling has significant focus on balance, which isn't 100% the same as root.

BJJ doesn't "root" at all. The main focus is position, i.e. achieving a dominant position. This is one of the innovations for which BJJ is famous. Static "rooting" is the last thing you want to do, because you always want to be moving to keep your opponent busy. Even "dynamic root" isn't something that would be at the forefront of your mind.

Despite enjoying CMA, training my "root" is one of those things that I found over-emphasised. I found that the principles of being in balance and set up for the strike to be more useful. Some may say these principles relate to rooting, but it's the drills that count IME.

[geezer]

There are similarities and differences. When I cross-trained at my local boxing club, I was taught to root just before launching a punch or combination of punches. It was never called "rooting", but was taught nonetheless.

This is pretty much the way we approach it in the two eskrima systems I've practiced... which isn't surprising since the headmen in both systems were also boxers. And one of those systems (Latosa Escrima) has had a lot of influence on some WT, such as the EBMAS Wing Tzun group. As I said on a previous post, I have a badly fused left ankle which makes my wing chun pretty wierd. I can't physically get the kind of static rooting the classical versions of the art demand. But I do have decent dynamic balance, so I adapt and make things work anyway I can. Maybe that's why I've been doing this a long time and am still not a "true believer" in the all the classical approaches. I have no choice, since my body can't do all that stuff the "traditional way". So I "cheat". Cheating (or modifying) is good...when it works, right? At least that's what my current eskrima teacher preaches. Actually, my current Wing Chun instructor is pretty creative in helping me as well.

[xingyiren]

Hi guys, I propose that the word , "root" is taking the discussion way off-track. There is no distinction in traditional kungfu training between "static" and "dynamic" root. In fact, the chinese word for this theoretical concept is not remotely associated with the english definition of "root".

What people call "root" is simply one aspect of proper body alignment (shen fa). Many training methods use standing (zhan zhuang) as a beginning exercise for body awareness and muscle control. This is also commonly referred to as pole standing and is associated with developing a root simply because the analogy to a tree is often used for this practise.

All fighting systems employ shen fa but the learning methods, training and implementation may differ. For example, wing chun uses chi sao as a training method to strengthen shen fa, taiji uses push hands, xing yi uses two-man forms.

So to answer the original post, YES I have root. Everyone does - but some people can see past the limitations of poor translation and gain a more complete understanding of true "root" - shen fa.

[El Medico]

Yup,your first paragraph summed it up quite well,Xingyiren!

[Browneagle]

Hi guys, I propose that the word , "root" is taking the discussion way off-track. There is no distinction in traditional kungfu training between "static" and "dynamic" root. In fact, the chinese word for this theoretical concept is not remotely associated with the english definition of "root".

What people call "root" is simply one aspect of proper body alignment (shen fa). Many training methods use standing (zhan zhuang) as a beginning exercise for body awareness and muscle control. This is also commonly referred to as pole standing and is associated with developing a root simply because the analogy to a tree is often used for this practise.

All fighting systems employ shen fa but the learning methods, training and implementation may differ. For example, wing chun uses chi sao as a training method to strengthen shen fa, taiji uses push hands, xing yi uses two-man forms.

So to answer the original post, YES I have root. Everyone does - but some people can see past the limitations of poor translation and gain a more complete understanding of true "root" - shen fa.
Xingyiren
sounds like you basically are saying that energy drills are actually your root (shenfa) body aware ness of opponents whilst horse stances or zhan zhuang is body awareness of self correct?

[jinkan]

What is root? How do you (personally) define it? And how do you develop this root?


Rooting is the ability to grab onto or suck on the ground.

Rooting ability comes from the development of the internal part of the body. No internal development, no root.

Rooting ability is developed through time and practice. A lot of time because that is the nature of the structures within the body that are involved with internal development.