Abandon Tan Sau?

[CKava]

A question popped up in a discussion about Wing Chun in the CMA forum which Im hoping you JKD people could shed some light on. I 'know' there are quite a few Wing Chun techniques in Jun Fan and I also 'know' that quite a few techniques where discarded (the ' ' are to point out that im ready to be be proved wrong).

SO in light of this I was wondering if anyone knows if the Tan Sau (that is your arm extending out in a straight line from your center line with the elbow facing down, the palm facing up and a bend in the arm) was one of the techniques that didnt make it and if so could anyone tell me why it was dropped?

Its usually used as a turning block or offensively its often used as an invasive technique for getting into a position to control/attack someones centerline.

[AndyD]

The Tan Sau was not discarded - although some think it was because of their lack of understanding of the wing chun tools. The Wing Chun tools are defined by their energy rather than the visible appearence hence you could use a Tan Sau with a fist rather than the open palm up hand you mention and it's still a Tan Sau.

The Tan Sau is an incredable tool for interception - when used as Bruce did - but I don't see many people using it that way. Each to their own.

[Yukimushu]

I dont know, i suppose it all depends on the student... He may like to use the block, where as another may not. Personally in any images, books or footage ive seen of B.Lee training, i've not seen him use the tan sau, so i dont know if Bruce himself found it an effective block.

[Chase]

Hi, Tan Sau figures prominently into my practice, not only when I practiced Wing Chun, but later when I practiced JKD.

Chase

[dredleviathan]

The tan sao does definitely figure in the drills that I have been taught from Jun Fan Gung Fu usually with a simultaneous strike with the other hand (tan da?)... as for whether its part of JKD, well let's not go to that place...

As far as I know the Tan Sao appeared on the curriculum of the Seattle and Oakland schools and the Tan Da on the LA School currculum. This may or may not be correct as I've pieced this together from many sources in my more anal moments!

For me, the tan sao was something introduced in the Kickboxing Basic Counter series, specifically the 1-3 series (Jab-Hook series). So essentially this is a list of options against a jab-hook:

1. Cover
2. Bob and Weave
3. Cover and Hit: [list=a]
Tan Sao
Biu Sao
Jong Sao
Tight Cover
[/list=a] 4. Shoulder Stop and Rear Knee


I think the reason that it might not be something that you see all that often in some JKD schools is because it may not be the most effective or easiest technique to use in a boxing/kickboxing format.

The other explanation (which is my experience) is that there is more of an emphasis placed on Filipino techniques in the trapping range these days (certainly in my lineage)... mostly using destructions and angulation to set-up your attack rather than immobilization. These (to me) seem to flow better in the boxing/kickboxing format.

Having said that just the other night during sparring I did use an approximation of a tan sau... also my training partner has a Wing Chun background and its the sort of thing that he uses more often (too greater or lesser effect).

So I guess the question is really whether the tan sao will make it into your JKD and this will very much depend on your training history, experience and simply whether you find it a useful tool.

Hope that's useful,

Dred

[CKava]

Thanks for that response Dred... very informative :D