Sore knees???

[pgm316]

I occasionally suffer with knee problems, which have stopped me from training from time to time. Other than that they can feel weak or stiff. I really believe this is down to way I’ve been training in Kung Fu for so long. A lot of the exercises go against what is recommended by modern training methods, things like holding low stances, lateral stresses on the knee and the general strange things we do to ours knees. Also I think a lot of techniques are better suited to a 10 stone person than a 15 stone one like myself pretending to be a nimble 10 stone acrobat!

Does anybody else have problems like this?

[johndoch]

i knackered my knee 6 months ago and put me out for 6 weeks (i think it was caused by running around in a tight circle in a small hall). I do think that some martial arts traing techniques do damage to the knees especially as you say deep stances over prolonged periods. I found that when lying around and keeping my knee up above head height with a support on helped a little. Why dont you try swimming or cycling to build the knee up i think the low impact of these sports should help in my humble opinion.

[Saz]

If they feel weak its often the knee flexor muscles. Try sticking some weight in a bag (a bag of sugar will do) and hanging it off your foot, then doing say 10 leg raises with it. That really helped me with my knee trouble. Like John said, swimming is good too, cos its a low impact exersize and doesn't put much stress on the muscle.

You might wanna try Glucsomaine sulphate too, thats good for helping with stiff joints.

[waya]

Kyokushin_girl, that's the same thing I had to do when I broke my knee. The leg raises work great for strengthening the muscles around the knee and building them for exercise. I'd really suggest it to anyone even if they have never had knee injuries or problems before.

Rob

[pgm316]

Thanks for your advice, I'll give the Glucsomaine sulphate a try. I'm thinking about switching from running to cycling. And I agree with you Doc, running around in a small training hall is not good! Also gonna avoid the less knee friendly martial arts routines, there a tradition we don't need!

[Mike Flanagan]

Knee problems are the bugbear of many martial artists - this I know from personal experience. What causes them? Well many exercises that you still see in martial arts are just bad, bad news, eg. ballistic stretching exercises or bunny hops. Happily its a while since I've seen anyone doing those. But sometimes its the nature of the martial movements themselves that can cause problems, in particular very deep stances and hyperextension of the knee joint (ie. locking or snapping the leg out straight when kicking). If you do a martial art that requires that you do these movements then I would suggest seriously considering moving to a system that does not require this of you. Building up the strength in the legs will help minimise the strain on the knees, but it cannot fully protect you if you continue to do things which are just plain damaging to the knees. In building up your leg strength you must take a gradual incremental approach to your strengthening regime, otherwise you will simply further damage the joints. The physiotherapy exercises that have been described in an earlier post will certainly help. If your knees are really bad you need to start by finding exercises that encourage tensing of the muscles but keep the knee joint stationary.

Mike

[darlph]

Mike great information there and good advice from all. After having knee surgery at the ripe age of 39. I do not tell people to do anything other then raise it and rest it. If it continually swells and is tender and non weight bearing get to a doctor! My knee felt like it was just a little sore and then 2 nites before my next rank test I threw a kick in the air and wham. I got home and sat down with ice on it, and within 15 minutes I couldn't get up and walk. The first doctor said ice and rest. 1 week later it felt better but I went to an orthopedist and 3 months later I found I had ripped the cartilage in the joint, age thing, and the bones were rubbing together...SURGERY!
I now walk 3 times a week to strengthen, and no deep squats or lunges at 46. I do wear lite ankle weights and do slow motion kicks, no speed or power, also not hitting a target. I have a hand me down total gym and any squat movements I do is without all my weight on my knees and slow motion reps.
Good luck. I hope it's an age thing and not a surgery thing.

[morphus]

I am deeply distessed by the nightmarish stories about injured knees and stuff.
I was getting problems with my knees when i played football(soccer for our American friends), i gave up football to do martial arts(CKD) and i've never had a problem since, i hope this is due to tth type of training we do.
Horse riding stances and low/long stances are a big no,no with us and it seems just as well.

Train safely/sensibly!!!!!

[darlph]

I was talking with an aerobic instructor the otherday, real too! Went to school and all that and even teaches. To get a more MA workout she come to our school and trains. She , like us has knee problems and let me know that it is common for over 40 people to have them. So squats and deep balances are not really good for them if you have "knee lee osis"(my brothers saying) Depending on your style, you have to make the decision to live with. I don't strike targets anymore and my jump kicks may not be so high but what I have done is adapt with the good and not let it hold me back. So take care of those knees! They are very important and wear proper protection when you spar and the right support for your knee. An ace bandage is not support.

[TkdWarrior]

pgm u should protect ur knee ..
try using knee caps during practice...
-TkdWarrior-

[darlph]

knee caps? I'm not sure about the reference. If you need support for the knee because of injury usually you need something with side supports to keed the knee in place. I see alot of people use open knee nylon pullups that really do not support the sides just air the knee cap. They have some with steel side strips, some with wrap straps with plastic side supports which I use in heavy training days and, some like Superfoot wears one with a triangular insert that presses against the sides of the knees in a pullup that seems to work really well all the time.
I have found that people who use pullups never seem to wash them out too often which is not too sanitary

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Knee caps? Uh...just have to wonder, are you referring to the solid lumbs of bone that adorn the knee and are also one of the body's weakest points, or something else?

[TkdWarrior]

there r lot of options
1.Knee caps...
the one old ppl uses in winter so that their joints does wear out in cold... they r made in cotton, semi-cotton(dunno much about clothing things) wearing them wouldn't sacrifice ur training a bit...
i m very prone to knee n ankle injury so the day i started wearing them i rarely had probs...
2. if u r doing low stnaces then ur knee should never go ahead ur toe...so sacrifice ur weigth by expanding ur stance then goin low...
ie for horce riding stance if u normally do 1:1.5(shoulder distance) horse stance(TKD) and u want to go deep bending from knee will cause ur knee to sunk down ahead of ur toe...so increase ur stance to 1:2 or 2.5 then go down...
3. start practicing Zhan Zhaung...it'll help u build ur knees joints..
hope this helps...
-TkdWarrior-

[waya]

Personally I use braces with flexible steel, or hinged steel depending on what I am doing. Although mine may be more extreme than others would need since my knee was basically shattered.

Rob

[darlph]

Waya, ditto. Too many motorcycle accidents and overworking injuries when I was younger. Paying for it now. So I am a little more cautious.

[waya]

Skydiving..... need I say more? lol

I was lucky enough never to wreck a bike badly... (yet?), but knee injuries definitely have a negative effect on training.

[Sam]

i have a problem with my hips they click and cause me pain when i go for a high mawashageri usually people have watched and said my body and feet are positioned correctly does anyone have any insight why i have this problem and does anyone no of any excercises there are to overcome it.

thanks

skc
:Angel:

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by skc_wado
i have a problem with my hips they click and cause me pain when i go for a high mawashageri usually people have watched and said my body and feet are positioned correctly does anyone have any insight why i have this problem and does anyone no of any excercises there are to overcome it.

thanks

skc
:Angel:

Its difficult to say much with so little info. However, the click is likely to be either bone moving against bone (movement in the ball and socket of the hip joint - I would expect this to be quite a deep clunk audible more to yourself than others) or ligament moving over bone (more likely to be a sharp click or crack). These qualitative observations of the sound are only indicative, they're not diagnostic.

Other than that, there's not much I can say. Do the symptoms occur if you do a lower kick? Do you have reasonable muscular development around the hip area (not just hip but thigh and lower back/abdomen as well)? If the answer is yes to both questions then I'd suggest doing lower kicks. My hip clicks a bit if I do high roundhouses, in my case I believe it is movement of the actual hip joint. Its one reason, but not the most important, that I don't do high kicks.

Mike

[pgm316]

I have a similar problem with hips, after a lot of kicking, or sometimes just roundhouse style kicks, i get the clunking with one hip, it feels its pulled itself slightly out of socket. Because when i get back to stance and adjust my hips i can feel it clunk back into position. My body is definitely telling me to do low kicks!

[Jay]

Listen to your Body pgm ... it's best advice you'll ever get

Jay

[Sam]

thanks mike i think ill try to do the lower kicks it doesnt help im 5.2 and most of the people i train with are over 5.9 no problem gettin me leg up there its just the clicks that hurt like hell

skc

[TkdWarrior]

hmm skc i guess being 5.2 is good excuse to give that too to kick high?? phew...blast those knee joints n thighs ;) :D
wat's happening to me...TKDist speaking of those :D
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Jay
Listen to your Body pgm ... it's best advice you'll ever get

Jay

Your not wrong Jay, I do avoid a lot of thinks now. Some knee crunching exercises & stances. Some kicking & stretching. Its no great loss, not really things I's use in a fight anyway....

It is good to listen to your body, only problem is mine tells me to stay on the settee and eat more food instead of MA's! ;)