My P90X workout version

[yannick35]

So i tried the real P90X and its great but in my basement i have a whole multistation gym and i really feel that i am wasting all of this.

So i decided to modify P90X to fit my needs, keeping maximum intensity of course put changing exercises.

I also have a stairmaster and do 20 minutes morning and 20 minutes night.

I have a pulldown machine and i really suck at doing pull ups chin ups, i tried beleive me i did but at 214 pounds i could barely do one, so instead of doing them i do the pulldown on the machine and i do feel this is better because i feel a better pump and the back muscles working instead of my biceps while doing the chin ups.

The chest and back day has tones of push ups, i do the regular, military but i had to cut out the diamond push ups way to hard so i do vertical bench press, and flat dumbell flyes has well.

Its been 2 weeks now and i already see some nice changes, cant wait to see what a whole 3 months will do.

[Stuart H]

I have a pulldown machine and i really suck at doing pull ups chin ups, i tried beleive me i did but at 214 pounds i could barely do one, so instead of doing them i do the pulldown on the machine and i do feel this is better because i feel a better pump and the back muscles working instead of my biceps while doing the chin ups.

I know 275 pound men who can do 15 pullups - this is not rare, and is indicative of rather a large lack of strength on your part (I'm assuming you have average bodyfat levels). You would do well to use some bands to perform assisted chinups instead of using the pulldown station, as would stop thinking that a "pump" is the indicator of progress.

i do vertical bench press

Do you mean the bench is vertical, as in a seated overhead press?

[yannick35]

Are you sure you know anything about weight training because from what i read you have very little knowlege of it.

I have been in and out of gyms for 20 plus years and have seen many guys that could not chin to save there life, even the big guys using steroids who could lift tones of heavy weights could barely do 5.

Lou ferrigno said it has well at some point when you are too big you just cannot lift yourself.

I rather do pulldowns on a machine and really feel the muscle i am working on either the lats and back muscles then trying to do chin ups and work my biceps and not feel the back muscle at all.

My 2 cent

[Gary]

I've done 25 at 210lbs... It just depends what you train for. A lot of bodybuilders probably cant chin because they've trained pulldowns instead of chinning.

Then again, doing X amount of any exercise won't necessarily mean you look like X, are as strong as X or better at anything other than the exercise. Train for your goals, don't train to be good at a particular exercise, unless that's your goal.

[cdnronin]

Are you sure you know anything about weight training because from what i read you have very little knowlege of it.

I have been in and out of gyms for 20 plus years and have seen many guys that could not chin to save there life, even the big guys using steroids who could lift tones of heavy weights could barely do 5.

Lou ferrigno said it has well at some point when you are too big you just cannot lift yourself.
So it is possible for a human(not me) to squat 600 lbs or more, bench press 500 lbs, but not be able to lift 250-300 lbs because its body weight?

How about a 270 lb man doing 55 pullups? Not possible?
YouTube - Konstantinovs 55 pullups

[Arnoo]

Are you sure you know anything about weight training because from what i read you have very little knowlege of it.

I have been in and out of gyms for 20 plus years and have seen many guys that could not chin to save there life, even the big guys using steroids who could lift tones of heavy weights could barely do 5.

Lou ferrigno said it has well at some point when you are too big you just cannot lift yourself.

I rather do pulldowns on a machine and really feel the muscle i am working on either the lats and back muscles then trying to do chin ups and work my biceps and not feel the back muscle at all.

My 2 cent

I'm sorry but that Lou ferrigno must be a fool then. If an athlete cant do a decent ammount of chin ups it means he isnt very strong pound for pound the proper term would be relative strenght. Relative, functional and core strenght should be the aim for any martial artist tbh.

[Gary]

I'm sorry but that Lou ferrigno must be a fool then. If an athlete cant do a decent ammount of chin ups it means he isnt very strong pound for pound the proper term would be relative strenght. Relative, functional and core strenght should be the aim for any martial artist tbh.
Lou Ferrigno is a bodybuilder, his goals are very different to that of a martial artist.

Are you saying that if an athlete can't perform to a certain standard on a particular exercise all his other achievements become worthless because that somehow devalues the worth of his pound for pound strength? Even between different disciplines of martial art different training methods are called for. The OP hasn't even claimed to be training for MA, your arguement is based on your assumption of what he should be doing.

[yannick35]

cdnronin theses are not pullups come on, what happened to strick slow pace pull ups, this guy is boucing around is weight.

If chin ups are theses then hell i can do them, the version in P90X is a lot different then this.

Less amount of weight for better controlled form, i got injured squatting 505 pounds with very bad forms, back pain for the last 8 years.

Now that i am good again i will never make that mistake again, EVER, that doesnt mean i will never squat again, i squat and lungs with dumbells going for 25 reps and my legs never looked better at 210 pounds myself.

When i was 25 years old i used to train for mass and i weighted 204 pounds i could do 12 strict chin ups while on creatine, but at some point i could barely do 8 then the number got down to 5 and now 3. Even when i went back on creatine i stalled, and felt it a lot more in the biceps then in the lats

YouTube - Chinups - Athlete365.com

Here are flawless reverse chin ups

Notice the pose at the end of the chin up and the slow motion, for sure this guy is feeling the lats working and not the biceps.

[Arnoo]

Lou Ferrigno is a bodybuilder, his goals are very different to that of a martial artist.

Are you saying that if an athlete can't perform to a certain standard on a particular exercise all his other achievements become worthless because that somehow devalues the worth of his pound for pound strength? Even between different disciplines of martial art different training methods are called for. The OP hasn't even claimed to be training for MA, your arguement is based on your assumption of what he should be doing.

Even a bodybuilder should know that 200+ pound guys can also do chin ups even if he isnt one of them.
No i'm not saying that i'm saying however when it comes to strenght training for MA thats what every MA should be training for do you disagree with me on that ? If so what should a MA be looking for in his strenght training then ?

If the OP isnt strenght training for MA then he can disregard my comment because it was aimed at MA'ists.

[Gary]

Even a bodybuilder should know that 200+ pound guys can also do chin ups even if he isnt one of them.
Of course he'll know that, but in the context of training for a purpose there's no reason to be able to do X reps of chinups since this won't necessarily help towards their goal. I daresay most bodybuilders could train themselves to do chinups and probably a hell of a lot faster than someone of the same weight who's out of shape. If you're overweight and fairly new to training there shouldn't be any expectation that you can do an exercise because you're heavy enough, especially bodyweight work.

The point of Lou Ferrigno's original comment is that the work done doing chinups at pro-bodybuilder level isn't necessarily worth it for the reward compared to other exercises.
No i'm not saying that i'm saying however when it comes to strenght training for MA thats what every MA should be training for do you disagree with me on that ? If so what should a MA be looking for in his strenght training then ?

If the OP isnt strenght training for MA then he can disregard my comment because it was aimed at MA'ists.
My point wasn't what a MA should be training for. I wouldn't have made much of an H&F mod if I had limited myself to a single ideal of training methodology for any goal. If you look back at the recent threads in this weight section you might notice this article (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85055) I posted up a while back which should establish my stance on the value of strength training for martial artists, unless you want to start making assumptions for me too?

The reason for my comment is that you jumped on him for not training for martial arts, when he has said at no point that this is what he's training for particularly when the P90X program he talks about is for physique goals.

One of the most basic rules is that to excel you need to focus on one aim. If you try to excel at everything the best you'll do is be average in most.

[Gary]

So it is possible for a human(not me) to squat 600 lbs or more, bench press 500 lbs, but not be able to lift 250-300 lbs because its body weight?

How about a 270 lb man doing 55 pullups? Not possible?
YouTube - Konstantinovs 55 pullups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLl8rGhJvE)
I agree with Yannick, those are crossfit style pullups designed to get more reps by using the lower body to assist the lift, notice how he kips his knees up before he starts to pull to build momentum? His upper body doesn't travel up but rather in a curved path so his arms and shoulders are pulling on the horizontal plane as well as the vertical. It's a valid exercise but very different to strict chinups. To do full ROM pullups is a hell of a lot harder, even the second video doesn't show full lockout at the bottom though it's far closer.

[Arnoo]

Of course he'll know that, but in the context of training for a purpose there's no reason to be able to do X reps of chinups since this won't necessarily help towards their goal. I daresay most bodybuilders could train themselves to do chinups and probably a hell of a lot faster than someone of the same weight who's out of shape. If you're overweight and fairly new to training there shouldn't be any expectation that you can do an exercise because you're heavy enough, especially bodyweight work.

The point of Lou Ferrigno's original comment is that the work done doing chinups at pro-bodybuilder level isn't necessarily worth it for the reward compared to other exercises.

The original comment from Lou Ferrigno for as far as i know it was: "Lou ferrigno said it has well at some point when you are too big you just cannot lift yourself." All i did was comment on this simple statement wich in fact is bs that the average BB may become so big and due to different training goals cant chin up anymore might be true. However in the original comment there was not a single mention that this was about BB and thus i took it as a general statement. Wich as you yourself also said is ******** big people can chin too if they'd train for it ;). He might have known it or not but you cant make that out from his original statement.

My point wasn't what a MA should be training for. I wouldn't have made much of an H&F mod if I had limited myself to a single ideal of training methodology for any goal. If you look back at the recent threads in this weight section you might notice this article (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85055) I posted up a while back which should establish my stance on the value of strength training for martial artists, unless you want to start making assumptions for me too?

The reason for my comment is that you jumped on him for not training for martial arts, when he has said at no point that this is what he's training for particularly when the P90X program he talks about is for physique goals.

One of the most basic rules is that to excel you need to focus on one aim. If you try to excel at everything the best you'll do is be average in most.

Your just repeating yourself now i already said that i comment under the impression that he was training for MA if not he could just disregard my comment since it isnt valid anymore then. And that was a good article I read it when you posted it a while ago. About focusing on one aim i'm always under the impression that a MA practioner that wants to become good has to focus on alot of aims. Flexibility, Strenght, Technique, Condition and Mental frame of mind. To me this is one of the best things about MA its an extremly all round sport.

[cdnronin]

cdnronin theses are not pullups come on, what happened to strick slow pace pull ups, this guy is boucing around is weight.

If chin ups are theses then hell i can do them, the version in P90X is a lot different then this.

Your first arguement against pullups was that a large man COULD NOT do them. I posted a video of a very large man doing 55(fifty five) pullups. Is his form perfect? No. Do I believe that someone who is capable of performing 55 pullups with less than perfect form could do say 10-20 pullups with excellent form? Not really much of a stretch of the imagination. it is obvious he is going for reps.

Coma gives an excellent analysis of how he is doing Crossfit style pullups. So, do you want to change your original comment from large men cant do pullups to they can't be done with proper form?
YouTube - 30 (dead-hang) pull-ups
You may prefer this video

[JaxMMA]

Are you sure you know anything about weight training because from what i read you have very little knowlege of it.

I have been in and out of gyms for 20 plus years and have seen many guys that could not chin to save there life, even the big guys using steroids who could lift tones of heavy weights could barely do 5.

Lou ferrigno said it has well at some point when you are too big you just cannot lift yourself.

I rather do pulldowns on a machine and really feel the muscle i am working on either the lats and back muscles then trying to do chin ups and work my biceps and not feel the back muscle at all.

My 2 cent

20 years in the gym and you just proved how much you know actually...
Being able to lift "tons of heavy weight" doesn't mean jack when it comes to chinup/pullup.
Once you get to the point where you're too big to lift yourself, you know it's time to start worrying about strenght. What's the point of being able to lift tons of weight if you cannot carry your own weight?
Pulldowns can't even compare to weighted pull-ups...

[JaxMMA]

I'm sorry but that Lou ferrigno must be a fool then. If an athlete cant do a decent ammount of chin ups it means he isnt very strong pound for pound the proper term would be relative strenght. Relative, functional and core strenght should be the aim for any martial artist tbh.

Body builders are not athletes, more like athlete mannequins