Juppo Sessho

[Brad Ellin]

Here's a question for my Bujinkan brothers and sisters (although anyone is more than welcome to contribute). As we all know, one of the themes this past year was Juppo Sessho. Did anyone understand it? What did you learn from/about it? What does it mean to you? I thought a little reflection about it might help some of us see things in a new light. I know what I learned and what it means to me, I'll expound on it this evening after I get home from work. Though I think my thoughts can be summed up in one word. Freedom. More later.

[ns_oni]

Close range tactics using weapons against armed opponents.

I found the kodachi,kunai,spear techniques got more interesting as they advanced. Next year there will be more work using two swords if i understood correctly, sounds interesting aswell.

[Brad Ellin]

Originally posted by ns_oni
Close range tactics using weapons against armed opponents.

I found the kodachi,kunai,spear techniques got more interesting as they advanced. Next year there will be more work using two swords if i understood correctly, sounds interesting aswell.

I especially loved the kunai and kyoketsu, Soke did some amazing things with those at the Tai Kai. And 2 sword work....Oh Yeah!

But, I'd like to know how and why you came up with your definition of Juppo Sessho? Not saying it's wrong, just curious. You might have seen something I missed. I'm at work, so can't stay on long enough to type out my feelings, but I must say they are almost 180 degrees from yours.

[Brad Ellin]

Okay, I'm home now and got a few minutes before the wife chases me off the computer.

Juppo Sessho. I got the feeling that it isn't about any one "thing" but the freeing ourselves from constraints. Take the Kunai for example. It's a tool. Comparable to a jutte. Ju means 10. As does the Ju in Juppo. Take that and combine it with the kihon happo (8 ways, think compass points) and add Heaven and Hell. Basically that means "everywhere", right? So, taking Juppo Sessho ideas into account... we're talking about learning to fight in 10 (all) directions. But that is just a literal translation or feeling. The feeling I get is that you are training to FREE yourself from be confined by these 10 directions. Going back to what I said in another post about learning kamae in order to be able to throw them away. We train and learn new techniques so that we can throw them away or transcend them and therefore gain total freedom in our movements and by association our minds and hearts.

Make sense?

[ns_oni]

The definition isn't entirely juppo sessho, just a part of it that i remembered. Tim Bathurst mentioned it in his seminar :p I'll read up abit more to see if i can get more of an understanding of the philosophical point of it which you are talking about.

[Miran]

Kurohana,here I am reading your thread and being even more confused.I'm aware of 10 directions (happo+tenchi) but I'm confused about "sessho" part.As I asked earlier:Is it "to kill" or "to negotiate"?I read somewhere while surfing that "negotiation" thing means that yours and opponents weapons negotiate with each other (???!!!)...Correct me if I'm wrong but this sounds reeeally stupid.
I think Sessho means to kill.I heared of some Juppo Sessho techniques like Kiri no Hito Ha (cutting a person with a sword) and Gorin Kudaki (Smashing five rings;gorin-five belly kyusho).If I translated this correctly it implies using deadly techniques to take one's life.
Juppo is often refered to San Jigen no Sekai 三次元の世界 or the three worldly dimensions.I think this is the "freedom" you wrote about.It implies the ultimate freedom of movement in the battlefield.
Another term often associated with Juppo Sessho is Ryuko 竜虎 or Dragon and Tiger.It can be translated as "a hero" but it mostly implies "two mighty rivals".
The first time I heared about this term was while I watched some 80s-movie about kenpo while just a kid.And ever since I taught it was B.S. till I recently heared Sensei Hatsumi relates it to Juppo Sessho.
As I remember in the movie some old Kenpo Sensei strikes quickly toward his student's face.The student swiftly blocks the attack.The Sensei repeats the attack exactly the same way and the student again blocks a punch.Then the Sensei reveals his other fist at the students belly.He tells his student something like this:"You cannot always be a Tiger.The Tiger reacts.You must learn to become a Dragon.The Dragon thinks".
If this has anything to do with Sensei Hatsumi's teachings of Ryuko I guess it would be that you must not react the same way twice because the habit kills.Your taijutsu must be automatized in order to protect yourself but you must yet rely on your wisdom and cunning to be able to utilize kyojitsu tenkan.

[Brad Ellin]

Miran, it's okay if my stuff confuses you. Heck, I even confuse myself from time to time :) Now, understand, that the definitions and ideas I have presented are my own. I may be completely off track, but I don't think I am. Maybe just a few degrees left of center. I've talked to dozens of people about Juppo Sessho and have gotten dozens of different, yet hinting towards sameness, answers. Make sense? I think Hatsumi wrote it out the way he did and made it vague in order to make us think. My ideas come mainly from conversations and classes by my teacher. And some stuff that I picked up at the last Tai Kai. And some insights of my own.

By the way, I like your interpretation. I'm still thinking about the "negotiation" concept in it. Hmm.....

[Keikai]

Looking forward to next years theme though if its true, i heard its the bo and other long weapons, dont quote me, its probably just a rumour!!

[kouryuu]

When i was in Japan 3 weeks ago Sensei said that it will be long weapons, he didn`t elaborate any further, Marc Moore`s just come back so hopefully he can throw some more light on the theme.[I]

[sshh]

There are various essays online that discuss the 2003 theme:

http://www.usd.edu/nin/essay7.htm

"Tori's job is to use taisabaki and kamae to create the size kukan that he/she wants, intentionally expanding it for safety and contracting it to modifying his/her kamae to create what appears to be "holes", enticing uke to attack, a situation which tori then exploits. This involves the 2003 theme of the Bujinkan Dojo, Koteki Ryuda Juppo Sessho Hibun no Kami. “Ko” means “tiger” -- tactician, techniques; and “ryu” means “dragon” -- strategist, time/space. Thus, the strategy of the dragon creates the time/space for the tiger to execute the techniques."

http://groups.msn.com/bujinkankotekiclubofnyc/jupposessho.msnw

"Juppo Sessho is understanding all the possibile relationships that can happen in a given exchange. One can move past the formal technique (waza) to apply the most natural and unexpected movements to wrap up, confuse and dismay your opponent."

http://www.usd.edu/nin/essay4.htm

"...juppo sessho isn’t something that you can specifically learn. It is the culmination of all the things you have learned about balance, rhythm, timing, and distance, combined with a micro-management to the nth degree of the kukan, the space within which an aggressive negotiation takes place."


http://bujinkanbrisbane.freeyellow.com/Juppo.html

"The concept of ‘negotiation’ is dealing with the problem at hand either in a peaceful or warlike manner. It also refers to the fact that adapting to any situation requires the skills not only of martial artist but politician, and tradesmen like mechanics and plumbers not to mention fishermen and farmers etc. In fact we must all learn to survive in our respective environments. Our choice of livelihood and our ability to feed, clothe and shelter our families and resolve life’s issues is paramount to a healthy lifestyle. After all, the life and death of our families are at stake."

[Miran]

Oops!I confess I was wrong.When I come to think of it the theme itself reveals the whole mistery about Juppo Sessho!
Koteki Ryuda Jupposessho 虎的 竜打 十方 折衝 碑文の神
As I previously stated there is a concept of Ryuko 竜虎; dragon and tiger or the two mighty rivals.
Juppo 十方 means ten directions i.e. happo 八方 (eight directions; all sides) plus additional two, tenchi 天地 (heaven and earth; up and down) giving San Jigen no Sekai 三次元の世界 or the three worldly dimensions.
Sessho 折衝 actually really means negotiation.
Kami no Hibun 神の碑文 means divine inscription.

Now here’s what’s it all about!

There is a 7th century Japanese scroll called Kami Yomoji 神四方字, the scroll of all gods (or Kami no Hibun 碑文の神).It is not clear weather it’s the only volume or there are ten or more of its versions, or if it transformed from Sanscrit, or finally was it actually fabricated by someone called Hirata Atsutame. The most important thing is that all the other scrolls (which inspired Japanese bujutsu) are based on this one. Kami Yomoji influenced Tenshin Hibun 天心碑文 (the scripture of divine will) which again influenced ryus of Yagyu and Kuki.
It is based upon ancient Japanese Bumon no Michi 武文の道 (the path of martial culture).
It comprises Hiken Tora no Maki 秘鍵虎の巻 (secret scrolls of the tiger), Ryu no Maki 竜の巻 (scrolls of the dragon) and Ryusen no Maki 流線の巻 (scrolls of the streamline).
Hatsumi Sensei set himself upon a quest to decipher ango 暗号 (codes) hidden within this scripture. And the main theme of the scripture is battle between Tiger and Dragon, the two mighty rivals. The battle of these two rivals is fought on the battlefield which represents some three dimensional space. As they fight they’re trying to outwit each other so they prey among themselves. Their battle is a negotiation of two warrior spirits. In a decisive moment when Tiger presents a target, Dragon will strike. The trick is that none of them knows who’s Tiger and who’s Dragon.
虎的 (ko, teki; tiger, target) 竜打 (ryu, da; dragon,strike) 十方 (ten directions) 折衝 (negotiation) 碑文の神 (Divine scripture).

It came to me last night. Though it makes sense to me I’d like to hear your opinion.

[Peaceful Tiger]

Miran my friend, I'd like to have an opinion if I could work out what you are talking about, and that Japanese Kanji just confuses me even more, (although it does look quite nice :D ). Please can you give a simplified version so that those of us with less experience can understand what it is you are trying to convey?, because all I understood was something about ten and eight and a war between tigers and dragons or something. Thanks

[LostInTheMist]

This thread has been really useful for me. I struggled with trying to understand Juppho Sessho. Soke kept saying how great everyone was doing at the TaiKai I attended on the subject but I really felt like I was a clueless noob. Now I have some starting points and recognise a bit of the feelings people have on the suject. Knowing some of the translations is a really big part too.

Thanks

[Miran]

Peacefil Tiger,I'd gladly break it down if you specify the confusing part.I'm not sure of what do you mean...

[Peaceful Tiger]

There is a 7th century Japanese scroll called Kami Yomoji 神四方字, the scroll of all gods (or Kami no Hibun 碑文の神.It is not clear weather it’s the only volume or there are ten or more of its versions, or if it transformed from Sanscrit, or finally was it actually fabricated by someone called Hirata Atsutame. The most important thing is that all the other scrolls (which inspired Japanese bujutsu) are based on this one. Kami Yomoji influenced Tenshin Hibun 天心碑文 (the scripture of divine will) which again influenced ryus of Yagyu and Kuki.
It is based upon ancient Japanese Bumon no Michi 武文の道 (the path of martial culture).
It comprises Hiken Tora no Maki 秘鍵虎の巻 (secret scrolls of the tiger), Ryu no Maki 竜の巻 (scrolls of the dragon) and Ryusen no Maki 流線の巻 (scrolls of the streamline).
Hatsumi Sensei set himself upon a quest to decipher ango 暗号 (codes) hidden within this scripture. And the main theme of the scripture is battle between Tiger and Dragon, the two mighty rivals. The battle of these two rivals is fought on the battlefield which represents some three dimensional space. As they fight they’re trying to outwit each other so they prey among themselves. Their battle is a negotiation of two warrior spirits. In a decisive moment when Tiger presents a target, Dragon will strike. The trick is that none of them knows who’s Tiger and who’s Dragon.
虎的 (ko, teki; tiger, target) 竜打 (ryu, da; dragon,strike) 十方 (ten directions) 折衝 (negotiation) 碑文の神 (Divine scripture).

So is this a feeling we are supposed to convey during combat or training or what?
Plus, surely if you're the tiger, you'll know that your pal is the dragon and vice versa, so how does that bit work?

[Miran]

It’s not about some actual war. Tiger and Dragon are a Japanese phrase meaning “two mighty rivals” which can be interpreted as uke 受け (defender) and tori 取り (attacker).
Tiger stands for instinctive, physical, brute force, fighting fearlessly with full power.
Dragon however stands for warrior wisdom, patience, cunning, kyojitsu tenkan 虚実 転換 (converting illusion into reality and vice-versa).
When two skillful warriors clash on the battlefield with equal chances and abilities then their minds/spirits negotiate (meaning they’re trying to outwit each other) to bring their battle to the end.
Is it about a feeling? ...Well partly but it is more about the actual experience of your existential integrity being on the line and your realization that you’ll have to engage with all your strength and abilities (spiritual, intellectual and physical) by the rules of anything goes in order to survive. In that moment you’ll go above all your knowledge and experience and no waza 技 (technique) will matter. Juppo Sessho is about that very moment. Even Ryuko 竜虎 (Dragon and Tiger; two mighy rivals…) in one of its interpretations means “a hero”…or one hero, to be precise. That “one hero” is the last man standing in a mortal combat of two equal heroes.
I hope this helps,Peaceful Tiger...

[Keikai]

I hope this helps,Peaceful Tiger...

Iain,

I hope it does as i am still lost!!

[Peaceful Tiger]

It helps a bit, but I asked my Shidoshi for clarification on it last night and although he explained it in his own way, he also said that it is nothing I have to worry about as it is really meant for those of fifth dan and above due to its complexities.

[Keikai]

Oh well,

No need for me to worry for 10 years then!! :D

Miran, just asking, are you a senior rank or are you just trawling the net for info? no catches here, i would just like to know who i am talking to, and do they have dojo's in serbia? And who do you vote for in the eurovision? ;)

[Miran]

Nope,not a senior rank don't worry (long story but confidential).Well the most of my info is compiled knowledge coming from various sources:books (Sensei Hatsumi's),conversations with some senior instructors and senseis,seminars (unfortunatelly not Taikais),videos,internet,and recently through correspondence (as some of you may remember from my "exfiltration" thread).So I believe that if you pick every info on one particular subject and put it together finally over the course of time the right answer will emerge by itself.
I like keeping things real because over a certain period people in Serbia trained what they believed was ninjutsu (and it really was some kind of hybrid).I don't even want to mention terminology!So while training I was really pissed off with this situation.
Yes,there are dojos in Serbia and I mean some really goodones especially over the past few years.For example my last dojo has some really closely-knit relations and really strong support with Sensei Brinley Morgan.
For any more detailed info...Oh,you know...

[Peaceful Tiger]

Oh well,

No need for me to worry for 10 years then!! :D

Miran, just asking, are you a senior rank or are you just trawling the net for info? no catches here, i would just like to know who i am talking to, and do they have dojo's in serbia? And who do you vote for in the eurovision? ;)

Don't Serbia and Montenegro always vote for the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia?

I like Greece because they always vote for Cyprus every year regardless, God bless 'em.

[Miran]

...Oh,yeah!Sorry about that one!I didn't ignore your remark on Eurovision but just forgot to reply since I was in a hurry...
Nope,I didn't vote.I didn't want to reduce chances for Zeljko Joksimovic to win!!! (Only messing with you !!!)
No,really how do you guys like "Lane moje"?!
I personally hated the guy until I heared him singing it for the first time.That song really moved something within me and still does!

Yeap,we voted for Macedonia but do you think we'll vote for them the next year after they stood us up like that ?!!

[Keikai]

I only watch it for Terry Wogan taking the mick! :D

[Peaceful Tiger]

Me too!

[Miran]

Well,just to say,I think we should have won...Does someone remember what Eurovisin was in the past...And did you hear those songs and see those performances?!!!O.K. for MTV but...