sanchin

[David]

Sanchin / Seienchin

These were listed in the kata-list thread.

Are they the same type of kata?

From a Chow Gar southern mantis kung fu perspective, sanchin bears more than a passing resemblance to the core of our forms and perhaps to train similar power and linkage.

Can you wise ole karatekas tell me about this/these forms?

Rgds,
David

[Kosokun]

From the karate perspective, they're the same sort of form (although different forms altogether) in that they are from the Kanryo Higaonna lineage. Both goju and Shi_to ryu practice these kata and they're performed with dynamic tension and audible breathing. Typically, both Sanchin and Seienchin (Goju's version romanizes it as seiyunchin) are classified as "Naha te" forms.



Rob

[Goju]

Actually, in goju or any ryu seyonchin, scienchin etc has many different spellings, and as for it using dynamic tension like in sanchin, you must be talking about a different kata. It starts off using slow, light, relaxed movements and moves into a fast snapping kata.

Sanchin on the other hand starts, remains, and finishes in dynamic tension. The movents are all in sanchin stance and they are all slow, very tense, and hard movements.

The reason sanchin, and various other goju styles resemble kung fu, and I heard this from both sensei and a teacher for kung fu (I cant spell the chinese word, it sounds like Lao-jerr-a) is that goju is made up of naha-te which traces back to chinese ma like all karate, and that is the "go" aspect (go meaning hard). THe Ju part comes from tai-chi, kung fu, and other chinese ma as Miyagi (the founder) wanted to incorperate soft (ju) aspects from the chinese ma.

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by David
Sanchin / Seienchin

These were listed in the kata-list thread.

Are they the same type of kata?

From a Chow Gar southern mantis kung fu perspective, sanchin bears more than a passing resemblance to the core of our forms and perhaps to train similar power and linkage.

Can you wise ole karatekas tell me about this/these forms?

Rgds,
David

Karatekas get their Sanchin forms from the Hokkien (Fujian) Arts such as Tai Tzu (Emperor fist), Yong Chun, Five Ancestors (Ngo Chor Kun) and Go Ro Kun etc.

San Chien both Hard and Soft is the principle form of Five Ancestors. In the book Ngo Chor Kun by Alex Co (Unique?), he does a side by side comparison of the San Chien from Five Ancestors and the Sanchin from Go-ju Ryu Karate, they are mostly the same, some of the Karate has slightly bigger movements.

I must of posted this information on this forum about twenty times now and the author of that book should be paying me my Marketing Fee!

[sebas]

sanchin is also the main kata of uechi, and some uechi people say that everything is "in" sanchin.

[David]

Thanks guys :). Not selling that book, are you sokklab?

Rgds,
David

[SoKKlab]

No David,
I don't have a copy. You can get it mail order from most of the decent Martial Book suppliers. A decent overview of Five Ancestors.

He (Alex Co) has also done a video series to accompany the book. Same publishers (Unique).

[redbull]

sanchin has its begining in china as it is one of the original 3 forms that were adopted by uechi from the chinese style of pan gai noon (sorry if mispelled. The other two forms are seisan, and sanseiru. It is a "moving meditation" which teaches concentration as well as develops physical strenght.

[David]

Originally posted by redbull
It is a "moving meditation" which teaches concentration as well as develops physical strenght.
Our analogous form (called sam bo gin / 3 step piercing or arrow punch) is said to be "not for fighting" by the grandmaster. I guess that makes it a moving meditation for concentration (intent/insight) and strength/power-chain too.

Rgds,
David

[HayabusaZero]

Wow, its always good to know some background on a kata.

Sanchin is what I'm learning right now. The first kata taught in Uechi.

[Matt_Bernius]

SoKKlab,

Thanks for the book info, I've seen you quote that history a few times and I've been wondeirng where it came from.

And I also love these threads that break out the history of application of a Kata. There's sooooooooo much to learn! It's great!

- Matt

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by Matt_Bernius
SoKKlab,

Thanks for the book info, I've seen you quote that history a few times and I've been wondeirng where it came from.

And I also love these threads that break out the history of application of a Kata. There's sooooooooo much to learn! It's great!

- Matt

Hi Matt,
The History re: Sanchin and the Transmission of Hokkien (Fujian) Arts knowledge to Okinawan Te etc is all in the Bubishi (two modern translations etc versions that I know of 1) By George Alexander (Andrew Green's recommendation) and 2) by Patrick McCarthy-Tuttle) and in the oral and written histories of those particular Chinese systems.

Many good articles in the now decent but now defunct Fighting Arts International (UK). Check the back issues here, much stuff re: Chinese Transmission to Okinawan Arts, history of Okinawan Te, breakdowns of Chinese Systems, particularly the Hokkien (Fujian) styles.

http://data.pointclark.net/budopromotions/magazines/magazines_80_89.htm

Have Fun looking.

[animefreak88]

i hope i'm not repeating anything already said, but there's another reason for goju-ryu sanchin's kung fu resemblence. the founder of goju-ryu, chojun miyagi, was taught by a man named kanryo higoshionna. higoshionna had been trained in the chinese fighting arts (i want to say a form of kung fu, but i'm not positive on that). higoshionna passed along alot of these teachings to chojun miyagi. in addition, miyagi himself made a trip to china to familiarize himself with the chinese fighting arts. so, a big reason for the resemblence is that goju ryu sanchin was made with a lot of the aspects acquired from the chinese arts in mind. since i haven't went over this history in awhile, if anyone sees any mistakes in that, please let me know. thanks!