Does your style do any of these kata?

[Noodle]

I am trying to find styles that train the katas listed below. These are supposedly the original 24 Okinawan katas of Naha-te, Tomari-te and Shuri-te. If your style trains any of these, please post the style name, which are trained, and (if you know) what is your main/master kata. -thanks.

01. Chinte
02. Chinto (Gankaku)
03. Lorei (Meikyo)
04. Jiin
05. Jion
06. Jutte (Jitte)
07. Kururunfa
08. Kushanku (Kanku)
09. Matsukase (Wan_kan)
10. Naihanchi (Tekki)
11. Niseishi (Nijushiho)
12. Ouseishi (Gojushiho)
13. Passai (Bassai)
14. Saifa
15. Sanchin
16. Sanseru
17. Seienchin (Saipa)
18. Seipai
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)
20. Shisochin
21. Sochin
22. Suparumpei
23. Unsu
24. Wanshu (Enpi)

[KenpoDavid]

according to my syllabus I will eventually learn Seipai, Sanchin, and Suparumpei (maybe one or tow more even) but I haven't reached them yet. I think these got into this style through the founder's goju influcences.

KD

[Saz]

Kyokushinkai Karate, founder's name is Mas Oyama, but I believe he took these from Goju Ryu. The main kata would be Sanchin, at a guess, but I'm not sure.

Saifa, Sanchin and Seipai

[Dinesh]

02. Chinto
05. Jion
08. Kushanku (
10. Naihanchi
12. Gojushiho
13. Passai
19. Seisan
24. Wanshu
Those are the forms that are in my style from what you listed.
Matsumura Shorin Ryu

[Telsun]

Goju-ryu:

07. Kururunfa
14. Saifa
15. Sanchin
16. Sanseru
17. Seienchin (Saipa)
18. Seipai
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)
20. Shisochin
22. Suparumpei

Sanchin is the linchpin of the style.

[Noodle]

Here is the original list broken down by originating town/style:

Naha:
07. Kururunfa
14. Saifa
15. Sanchin
16. Sanseru
17. Seienchin (Saipa)
18. Seipai
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)
20. Shisochin
22. Suparumpei

Shuri:
01. Chinte
08. Kushanku (Kanku)
12. Ouseishi (Gojushiho)
13. Passai (Bassai)

Tomari:
11. Niseishi (Nijushiho)
21. Sochin
23. Unsu

Both Shuri and Tomari:
02. Chinto (Gankaku)
04. Jiin
05. Jion
06. Jutte (Jitte)
03. Lorei (Meikyo)
09. Matsukase (Wan_kan)
10. Naihanchi (Tekki)
24. Wanshu (Enpi)

[Kosokun]

We do each and every one of those, in the shi to Ryu syllabus.

[47Ronin]

08. Kushanku (Kanku)- Kanchu?
15. Sanchin-Main Kata
16. Sanseiru
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)

Uechi Ryu Karate.

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by 47Ronin
08. Kushanku (Kanku)- Kanchu?

Uechi Ryu Karate.

Kanchu isn't Kanku/Kushanku.

Kanku is the name given to Kushanku by Funakoshi.

Kanchu is a kata authored and developed by Kanbun Uechi. Some Uechi dojo spell the kata "Kanshu".

Rob

[kobudo_tob]

Wan_kan isn't Matsukase - at least not the Matsukase of the Shukokai lineage.

Unless of course the Shukokai people I know got it wrong......its happened :)

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by kobudo_tob
Wan_kan isn't Matsukase - at least not the Matsukase of the Shukokai lineage.

Oh yes it is. (but a qualifier)

Matsukaze of Shi_to Ryu = Matsukaze of Shukokai (naturally) = Wan_kan of Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu

The Wan_kan of Shotokan is a completely different kata, unrelated to the Wan_kan of Shi_to Ryu or Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu.


Unless of course the Shukokai people I know got it wrong......its happened :)

Yes, what's up with you guys? ;):p :D

Rob

[kobudo_tob]

The Wan_kan of Shotokan is a completely different kata, unrelated to the Wan_kan of Shi_to Ryu or Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu.

You learn something new every day :)

Cheers Kosokun

[Dinesh]

Originally posted by Noodle
Here is the original list broken down by originating town/style:

Naha:
07. Kururunfa
14. Saifa
15. Sanchin
16. Sanseru
17. Seienchin (Saipa)
18. Seipai
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)
20. Shisochin
22. Suparumpei

Shuri:
01. Chinte
08. Kushanku (Kanku)
12. Ouseishi (Gojushiho)
13. Passai (Bassai)

Tomari:
11. Niseishi (Nijushiho)
21. Sochin
23. Unsu

Both Shuri and Tomari:
02. Chinto (Gankaku)
04. Jiin
05. Jion
06. Jutte (Jitte)
03. Lorei (Meikyo)
09. Matsukase (Wan_kan)
10. Naihanchi (Tekki)
24. Wanshu (Enpi)
Are you sure Chinte is from Shuri?I've never done that form in my years of training........

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by Dinesh
Are you sure Chinte is from Shuri?I've never done that form in my years of training........

So? How many has that been, and what styles does that encompass?

Mabuni classified the kata as being an Itosu kei kata, and states that he learned it from Itosu. FWIW.

Rob

[BigBadBob]

In my style (Shorin Ryu of mixed Matsumura and Kobayashi lineage)

10. Naihanchi (Tekki)
13. Passai (Bassai)
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)

up to Shodan (I don't know above this)

One question I have is how many different Seisan kata are there?
I have three listed in the literature I have:

1) Shorin-Ryu - thought to derive from Matsumura through Aragaki, Kiyan or Motobu.
2) Goju-Ryu Reportedly handed down by Higashionna Kanryo from a chinese form
3) Uechi-Ryu - Uechi Kambun based on Pangainoon form.

Can any Uechi / Goju people confirm these origins?

[47Ronin]

Originally posted by Kosokun
Kanchu isn't Kanku/Kushanku.

Kanku is the name given to Kushanku by Funakoshi.

Kanchu is a kata authored and developed by Kanbun Uechi. Some Uechi dojo spell the kata "Kanshu".

Rob

I was just checking to see if he happened to mispell it. Thanks for letting me know ;).

***1) Shorin-Ryu - thought to derive from Matsumura through Aragaki, Kiyan or Motobu.
2) Goju-Ryu Reportedly handed down by Higashionna Kanryo from a chinese form
3) Uechi-Ryu - Uechi Kambun based on Pangainoon form.

Can any Uechi / Goju people confirm these origins?*******

All I know is what I was told. That Master Kanbun Uechi brought it over from Fukien province China. :p

[Paul Herbert]

The JKA have 26 recognised kata, many taken from Okinawa by Funokoshi Sensei. My web site has a JKA Kata section that is quite interesting should anyone wanna take a look
http://www.dartfordskc.co.uk

[xubis]

Yeah, shotokan does some, I am just too lazy to name them

[kerling]

Xubis: you should link to:

http://24fightingchickens.com/kata/index.html

that you should do.

Darn I've been too much kenshin

;)

[Mike Flanagan]

Chinto
Rohai (Meikyo in Japanese systems - don't know why you've called it Lorei, I've never heard of that)
Kusanku
Naihanchi
Useishi
Passai
Sanchin
Seisan

Mike - Shorin ryu with bits and bobs of other things.

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan
Chinto
Rohai (Meikyo in Japanese systems - don't know why you've called it Lorei, I've never heard of that)

Lorei probably = Lohai. More of a phonetic thing.

AFAIK, Meikyo exists only in Shotokan and some of the Shotokan derived schools. Other Japanese systems use Rohai instead of Meikyo.

Also, Meikyo is a new kata that looks like a synthesis of Itosu Rohai Nidan and Sandan.

The Rohai that one sees most often in Shi-to Ryu (another Japanese system and one that calls the Rohai kata, "Itosu Rohai and Matsumura Rohai", respectively) and many Okinawan systems is Matsumura Rohai

Rob

[Longshot421]

The Rohai that one sees most often in Shi-to Ryu (another Japanese system and one that calls the Rohai kata, "Itosu Rohai and Matsumura Rohai", respectively) and many Okinawan systems is Matsumura Rohai

Rob

Yes, we (Renshikan) do 2 Rohais (well, 3 actually) that I know of that we refer to as Rohai Dai, Rohai Sho (short and long version of essentially the same kata) and Matsumura Rohai. Other kata we do are:

Ni Sei Shi (2 versions)
Seisan
Seinchin
Seipai
Kanku Dai
Ni Pai Po (sp?)
Jion
Bassai Dai
Pinan (Heian) 1-5
Chinto

And those are the ones of I can think of right now, there are more, but I am but a lowly 1st kyu and will learn more. Anyone have any thoughts on the Pinan kata and we now call them the Heian kata? My understanding is the it is the Okinawan vs. Japanese pronounciation of the same kanji, but I'm not sure, and I don't know why we changed our mind as to which pronounciation we are to use.

Longshot421

[Kosokun]

Yes, we (Renshikan) do 2 Rohais (well, 3 actually) that I know of that we refer to as Rohai Dai, Rohai Sho (short and long version of essentially the same kata) and Matsumura Rohai. Other kata we do are:

Ni Sei Shi (2 versions)
Seisan
Seinchin
Seipai
Kanku Dai
Ni Pai Po (sp?)
Jion
Bassai Dai
Pinan (Heian) 1-5
Chinto


Seems that your particular Renshinkan Dojo/Group is doing quite a few kata outside of the Renshinkan syllabus. Interesting.


And those are the ones of I can think of right now, there are more, but I am but a lowly 1st kyu and will learn more. Anyone have any thoughts on the Pinan kata and we now call them the Heian kata? My understanding is the it is the Okinawan vs. Japanese pronounciation of the same kanji, but I'm not sure, and I don't know why we changed our mind as to which pronounciation we are to use.

Longshot421


Your understanding is correct. It is the Japanese pronounciation of the same kanji.

It all seems willy-nilly to me as to whether one uses the Japanese vs. the Okinawan pronounciation.
For example

In shito ryu, we often say Pinan vs. Heian. (some groups/orgs use Heian, while others use Pinan.)

But, we say Kosokun vs. Kushanku.
Seisan vs. Jyu San
Seipai vs. Jyu Ichi
Jyuroku vs. seiryu
Sanseiryu vs. San jyu roku
Niseishi vs. Nijushi
Nipaipo vs. ni hachi ho

Go figure.

Rob

[Longshot421]

Seems that your particular Renshinkan Dojo/Group is doing quite a few kata outside of the Renshinkan syllabus. Interesting.


Renshikan vs. Renshinkan (a very subtle difference, I know) may be a partial explanation. We are a pretty small style (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) based in Canada. If you want to know more about this style, please let me know (The 10 word or less explanation would be Chito Ryu + Shito Ryu = Renshikan, but it's more than that :D ). Anyway, your info on the Heian vs. Pinan topic is much appreciated. Also, with the kata names, it explains why I have been to tournaments and seen katas the look awfully similar to a kata I know, but with an entirely different name.

Thanks,

Mark

[Kosokun]

Renshikan vs. Renshinkan (a very subtle difference, I know) may be a partial explanation. We are a pretty small style (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) based in Canada. If you want to know more about this style, please let me know (The 10 word or less explanation would be Chito Ryu + Shito Ryu = Renshikan, but it's more than that :D ).


OH, I See now. That explains it. There's a RenshiNkan Shorinji Ryu group near me, in Silicon Valley.
Rob

[Mrs Owt]

My style, IsshinRyu does:

Seisan
Seuichin
Naihanchi
Wansu
Sanchin
Chinto
Kusanku

We also have another one, Suansu, in our syllabus but it isn't one of the originals that you asked about. We also have some kobudo kata that are required to grade to a dan level.

[JohnnyX]

Hi,

All the 'Senior Grade' Kata that I know of in my style, Shukokai, appear somewhere in your list.

:)

[Picksey]

In wado ryu we do:

5 pinan kata
kushanku
naihanchi
chinto
seishan (seisan?)
passai
niseishi

...and some more... but I haven't got that far yet ;) . Maybe Ash would care to complete the list?


EDIT: Oh, and Mr. Wado Ryu is better known as Hironori Ohtsuka.

[Ash]

^^^^^

Here you are...

Rohai
Wanshu
Jitta
Jion

:)

[Longshot421]

Oh, I See now. That explains it. There's a RenshiNkan Shorinji Ryu group near me, in Silicon Valley.
Rob

I visited the web site you have in your profile, looks great. Do you know anything about RenshiNkan? I was wondering if the similarity in name is merely coincidental.

Cheers,
Mark

[Kosokun]

I visited the web site you have in your profile, looks great. Thank you. Do you know anything about RenshiNkan? I was wondering if the similarity in name is merely coincidental.

Cheers,
Mark


Try this page: http://www.synapse.ne.jp/~renshin/english/intro.html


Rob

[Stick]

My dojo does the following from your list:

Jitte
Onkan
Tekki
Bassai
Hengetsu
Sochin
Suparumpei/Hyakuhatchiho
Wanshu

We are shotokan.

[Longshot421]

Try this page: http://www.synapse.ne.jp/~renshin/english/intro.html


Thanks very much. Pretty interesting. If you want to know more about Renshikan, search Akutagawa AND Karate AND Chitose OR "Chito Ryu" and you can go from there. I also found that there is some connection to Goju Ryu as well, so I guess I should have said the 10 word answer is Chito Ryu + Shito Ryu + a little Goju Ryu = Renshikan. Anyway, thanks again.

Mark

[Kosokun]

My dojo does the following from your list:

Jitte
Onkan
Tekki
Bassai
Hengetsu
Sochin
Suparumpei/Hyakuhatchiho
Wanshu

We are shotokan.

What branch of Shotokan are you guys? What happened to Kanku, and the other shotokan kata?

Rob

[Kenpo Kicker]

I know Seisan kata. We have Chinto, wansu, Naihanchi, and sansu kata as well. The style is isshinryu karate.

[Furikuchan]

American Shorin-ryu karate. We do the following from the list:
Shinto, Jiin, Jion, Jutte, Kururunfa, kusanku, Wan kan, Nihachis, Pinans, Bassai, Gojushiho, Saifa, Sanchin Sanseru, Seinchin, Sepai, Hangetsu, Shisochin, Sochin, Suparumpei, Unsu (that is a FUN kata!), and Wanshu.
The others might be in our style, too, but I might not have seen or learned them yet. Some ofthe higher-level kata are lost, due to the only people learning them being too old to remember at times!
(It won't let you say wan kan as one word? That has just made my day!)

[Mike O'Leary]

In my style (Shorin Ryu of mixed Matsumura and Kobayashi lineage)

10. Naihanchi (Tekki)
13. Passai (Bassai)
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)

up to Shodan (I don't know above this)

One question I have is how many different Seisan kata are there?
I have three listed in the literature I have:

1) Shorin-Ryu - thought to derive from Matsumura through Aragaki, Kiyan or Motobu.
2) Goju-Ryu Reportedly handed down by Higashionna Kanryo from a chinese form
3) Uechi-Ryu - Uechi Kambun based on Pangainoon form.

Can any Uechi / Goju people confirm these origins?



Isshin ryu Kata

Seisan
Seiunchin
Nihanchi
Wansu
Sanchin
Chinto
Kusanku
Sunsu

These are the empty hand kata of Isshin Ryu, the lineage is Miyagi Chojun, Motobu Choki, and Kiyan Chitoku.

Mike O'Leary

[happywelshgal]

I am trying to find styles that train the katas listed below. These are supposedly the original 24 Okinawan katas of Naha-te, Tomari-te and Shuri-te. If your style trains any of these, please post the style name, which are trained, and (if you know) what is your main/master kata. -thanks.

01. Chinte
02. Chinto (Gankaku)
03. Lorei (Meikyo)
04. Jiin
05. Jion
06. Jutte (Jitte)
07. Kururunfa
08. Kushanku (Kanku)
09. Matsukase (Wan_kan)
10. Naihanchi (Tekki)
11. Niseishi (Nijushiho)
12. Ouseishi (Gojushiho)
13. Passai (Bassai)
14. Saifa
15. Sanchin
16. Sanseru
17. Seienchin (Saipa)
18. Seipai
19. Seisan (Hengetsu)
20. Shisochin
21. Sochin
22. Suparumpei
23. Unsu
24. Wanshu (Enpi)


Out of the list you have given, we do Chinte Gankaku Meikyo Jiin Jion Jitte Wan_kan Nijushiho Hengetsu Sochin Unsu and Empi. We also do Heian Katas, Tekki Sho Dan, Tekki Ni Dan, Tekki San Dan, Bassai Dai, Bassai Sho, Kanku Dai, Kanku Sho, Gojushiho Sho, Gojushiho Dai.

We're Shotokan by the way!

[Romantic]

Back ion Wado-Ryu Karate, I did Jion, Bassai-Dai, Naihanchi, Kanku-Dai, and the Pinan Katas.