Kip Up

[Spinal]

Given the sunny ... ehm, I mean lack of rain, today I decided to try to learn how to do a Kip Up...

Alot of falls later, having knocked the wind out of myself a few times and gotten a massive headache from the vibrations... I still didn't manage!

I'm blaming it on my height :p I must be too tall to do them :p

So now I'm going to work on my abs and arm strength, I hate knowing that there is something that I can't do...

Has anyone else tried these? How long did it take to get the hang of them?

M.

[narcsarge]

Did them all the time in gymnastics. If Google doesn't provide you w/ any thing I may be able to help. Couple of questions though:

1: Have you done any sort of gymnastics?
2: Do you put your hands behind your head?
3: Do you shoot your feet up and away from your body @ 45 degrees?

[unknown-KJN]

Given the sunny ... ehm, I mean lack of rain, today I decided to try to learn how to do a Kip Up...

Alot of falls later, having knocked the wind out of myself a few times and gotten a massive headache from the vibrations... I still didn't manage!

I'm blaming it on my height :p I must be too tall to do them :p

So now I'm going to work on my abs and arm strength, I hate knowing that there is something that I can't do...

Has anyone else tried these? How long did it take to get the hang of them?

M.As narcsarge suggested, here's an adequate description of what you should be doing (I just looked it up as he said to do):
Kip-Up Advice (http://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Kip-up)

Although there are hazard warnings at the bottom of this web page, I feel it's important to note what they didn't, and that is there remains a great risk when failing at this stunt (landing on your back instead of your feet) which could involve landing on your neck in such a way that might cause damage to the spine in the cervical region. If that happens, you might end up in a wheelchair for life. So be extra careful, or better yet, be sure you have spotters during your initial training.

As the website states, it could take months to reach success if you don't quite get the hang of the timing/coordination (which is absolutely essential). When I was attempting this feat, it took me a rather long time indeed (I also learned it outside on the grass). Since then, I've *discovered* some good preliminary exercises that make success come that much easier.

First, practice back-bridges to help with back flexibility as well as arm strength (do regular push-ups too, but the inverted back-bridge version is also paramount as the shoulder is worked differently in the inverted position). Another drill is to stand about 3 feet from a wall, facing away (however, the distance IS relative to your height). Bend backwards and put your hands on the wall at head height. "Walk" your hands down to the floor and then back up using tiny "steps" (only use back muscles to "maintain" your arch as you walk your hands down & up, resist the temptation to pull yourself up out of the arch). When you can do this ten times with little "effort" then your back is sufficiently conditioned.

Next, practice the leg thrust. From a lying position, legs tucked into your chest, kick your feet straight up - perpendicular to the ground. Don't try to land on your feet just yet, remember this is a preliminary exercise to guarantee success with the trick, so don't try to do the trick and land on your feet. When practicing this step, you will be landing on your back, so allow your feet to drift slightly back where they were when you sat down, as this will keep you from landing on your neck. You can add the push with the hands if you want, timing the push of the hands a split second after the leg thrust. You need to get your back/head at least one foot off the ground before attempting the next stage.

The final stage is next and should only require you be patient with the other drills for about a week or so (providing you're training daily or at least 2-3 times per week and were already "in shape" at the outset). This is where you "put it all together" and go for broke! As the website indicates, you whip your feet down when you feel "weightless" but only after reaching peak height. The difference with my method is that you're keenly aware of when this occurs since I invoke practicing just this at stage #2. Even an untrained "spotter" can assist if you tie your belt/sash/whatever around your waist at one end and give the other end to the spotter who stands facing you as you sit. In that instant after you've thrust upward and are trying to plant your feet, all they need do is give a quick tug on the belt (the extended length of the belt prevents the spotter from getting kicked).

Another thing the website doesn't mention is to throw your hands forward at the same time you whip your feet down. This helps move your head and shoulders over your feet for better balance and stability when landing. Otherwise "cutting under" with the feet is needed to attain a balanced landing posture (so you don't fall onto your back after landing on your feet) and this "cutting under" maneuver isn't so easy for everyone to learn. Throwing your extended arms forward is something anyone can do (you just finished pushing up, remember? so they're extended but behind your head).

Hope this helps, and GOOD LUCK! :cool:

[Spinal]

Thanks for the advice! I was planning to do some more trials at the gym today on a padded mat/floor, but I got recruited into a 'BoxFit' class, so had to give up my training...

With some luck I'll find an hour somewhere tomorrow to practice!

M.

[tom pain]

I managed to do one once :D

I would attempt them randomly now and then without real intention of learning, and have pulled it off once so far. Looked cool as well:cool:

Tried YouTube?

[Spinal]

I managed to do one once :D

I would attempt them randomly now and then without real intention of learning, and have pulled it off once so far. Looked cool as well:cool:

Tried YouTube?

Funny you should mention it... after failing a few times, I pulled up YouTube and found a few tutorials... didn't stop me from whacking the floor unfortunately :p

[old palden]

It might help to start from an elevated position, that is, on a pile of mats or something that raises your butt about a foot higher than where your feet will land. Once you can consistently land balanced on your feet, gradually lower your elevation until you can do it on a flat surface. Just to add to warnings you've received, this is a ballistic move that whips the spine and can cause a number of injuries, so take precautions.

As for height, I'm 6 foot 2 and I can pull it off.

Good luck

[dormindo]

I'm also 6'2" and can do them--though I started doing them as a kid, messing around with friends in the schoolyard. I almost never have occasion to do them in adulthood, though I still can. At any rate, I think form is at issue as opposed to height.

paz,

dormindo

[vernox]

yeah, the most important thing is bridges i reckon

[Fire-quan]

OK, forget everything that's been said so far, lol. I was like you once, unable to do them - worse, because I was on a wushu class, and I really needed it, even to do the less acrobatically demanding nan quan! I thought I would never do them. I tired and tried and tried and tried and tried....

And eventually, I did it.

I've seen tall people, fat people, lazy people, do it. Immensely flexible people do it, unflexible people, and I've taught other people to do it.

I do it differently to many - I don't put my hands behind me and bridge at all - I put my hands on my knees, and push my legs forwards.

Elevated positions, bridges - no. I don't believe that they are of any use. It's simply about the shape you are making with your body, the technique, the speed, and the landing.

Try this - lie down, and lift your legs up, and back, so that they are over you in the "beggining position". Now, check the straightness of your legs. Are they all bent up? Are you throwing them forwards bent? Don't! Straighten!

The technique is to straighten them - and throw them UP and FORWARDS... when they are pointing directly up, they should still be pretty much straight - most people bend them long before, and wonder why they are getting no lift or forwards momentum. Use the force of your lengthened legs. If you are using the push behind your head method, use that push as well to get extra force - but remember to bring your arms forwards fast as well - get their weight and momentum in front of you, not dragging you back.

Now, as they come down you need to do two things - one, flick your torso up... many bad neck days I'm afraid, until you strengthen up! And two, begin to bend the legs. Bend and open the legs - get them to either side, and as far back as you can.

Now perfect the movement - your initial aim should be to "land" it with one hand on the floor beside you - i.e., at first, try not to let yourself fall back at all - try to put a hand down to keep you on your feet. You'll notice then how many people actually do that.

The most important thing, apart from the legs, is to commit to the move - you can't do it half hearted. Putting a hand down will protect you from the fall back, and build your confidence to really, really go for it.

No matter who the person, they "did it" it one go - the first time that they did everything right. It is technique and commitment - nothing more.

Best of luck!!!

[unknown-KJN]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with Fire-quan. I view the variation of not using your hands to help push out of the start position as an advanced method, which is tremendously easier to do once the coordination and timing necessary to orchestrate the movement of various body parts at the correct moment has been ingrained from successfully doing many repetitions of the basic method first. (the advanced maneuver is required in my chosen style when getting up from being flat on your back while wielding double weapons, i.e. a matched twin set with one in each hand).

I also think reaching a hand to the ground as you land could either make you tend to bend your legs too much (see below), or it might make you lean unnecessarily (whether it be to the front, side, or rear), compromising your balance in the landing phase. The best place for your hands/arms, after getting airborne, is in front of you, to help stabilize your balance.

I do agree that you should land as vertical as possible (upright or standing posture) as landing all your weight in a squatting (or even semi-squatting) position can be hazardous to your knees. But this is usually a "cheat" that people do when they're unable to get sufficient height in the thrust phase. As long as you "explode" with the initial movement of your legs and keep the direction going UP until peak height is attained before whipping them forward or down, then you shouldn't land with overly bent legs.

[Fire-quan]

Obviously you'll have to tray all the various things that people have advised. I think if there's one thing that I've seen consitently allow people to do this posture when before they couldn't, it's to start with legs straighter, and not bend them too soon - so that's the one piece of advice I always give, and it has worked for many people.

The second important piece of advice is, like many postures that rely on momentum and lift, that you have to go for it - you have to commit to the posture. Many times I think people could do this posture, but their body just doesn't commit enough, so of course they fall back. Like riding a bike - you have to go for it to stay up!

There are many, many variations on this posture - some people can flick right through on their front, and some people can combine it with a "leg swirl" ala kung fu movies. The one thing to keep in mind, and I've seen it many times, is that it CAN be done, even when you've spent years dreaming of it and unable to do it. DOn't hope - believe. It can be done, and like many things, you realise it's a lot easier than you thought, once you break the barrier of actually doing it.