Favorite Programming Language [Archive]

Tosh

24-Dec-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by xubis
?! I am trying to learn java now, it is SO hard... just like "Well, object instance, class method with a bowl of fruit loops on the side!"

Ahhh to be a programming n00b again..... :)

Trust me mate, there are a lot more horrors that you will probably never have to come into contact with so be Happy! :D

Not that I've got a serious grudge against C++ inheritence classes mind..........;)

hongkongfuey

24-Dec-2003, 02:22 PM

Not that I've got a serious grudge against C++ inheritence classes mind..........

how about Microsofts 'visual' c++ then? Not much visual about it as far as I recall. Certainly not RAD.

Saz

25-Dec-2003, 03:25 AM

I remember having a compiler called Visual J++. It was the biggest pile of junk I ever got my hands on :rolleyes:

I voted for Visual Basic. Its Microsoft, I know, but its very good at what it does, and a baby could learn it. Its the only thing I can program in to a reasonable level. I don't know enough PHP to make a real judgement on it yet, (but its good so far) and I'd rather chew my leg off than program in Java again.

Isn't Pascal known as Delphi now?

MichaelV

25-Dec-2003, 04:29 AM

I voted C / C++ / C#, although I have issues with this all being the same choice. C# has less to do with C++ than Java does.

totality

25-Dec-2003, 05:53 AM

i hate vb, i nearly forgot c when i started with vb because it made me so lazy. but my vote is for php, because it's just so damn fun to write.

but hongkongfuey, no xhtml or css? ;)

LilBunnyRabbit

25-Dec-2003, 08:54 AM

Isn't Pascal known as Delphi now?

Different languages actually, same as the difference between C and Visual C++. There are similarities though.

However, on that note, where is Delphi? I wanna vote for that. :p

Cain

25-Dec-2003, 09:35 AM

Anyone tried revese engineering/assembly in depth? ;)

|Cain|

Redhotdragon

25-Dec-2003, 11:22 AM

Visual Basic. I've dabbled in C++ though...

xubis

25-Dec-2003, 11:51 AM

Cain... you mean.... CRACKING! *dun dun dun!*

Cain

25-Dec-2003, 12:06 PM

LOL! Yep! :D

I tried it abit but then I decided to keep my hair intact ;)

|Cain|

Aravi

25-Dec-2003, 01:45 PM

C\Java\Perl\BASH

4 tools to cover all situations.

Personally hate Visual Basic, just consider at an inferior tool barely suited to teaching programming and so often trapping students who never move on to a real language and yes I am an elitist about that.

*catches breath*

Yeah, C/Java/Perl/Bash as the toolkit.

WhiteWizard

25-Dec-2003, 02:52 PM

C# is closer to java than C/C++.

I prefer Java but i also really like coldfusion too.

also where is Ada95 :)

YODA

25-Dec-2003, 02:59 PM

What is this "Programming" you speak of?

Does HTML and CSS count? :D

TheBorderer

27-Dec-2003, 10:27 PM

Tough call... but so far, out of what I know I chose Java.

Was for me between VB and Java, but as I have maybe an 'edge' of experience on Java then I go for that. I'd say its quite a good language (even more so becuase it's free to get :D).

I like VB tho, it's quite nice to just draw up a GUI and then go on with coding. Althogugh it can make someone 'slack' with variable declaration, which in a way can be a bad thing.... also as it doesn't have (or seem to) have auto indentation, is a bit annyoing well maybe after a lazy point of view! (after the experience of using Emacs in Linux and have it auto indent for you :)) If someone were to make an extenstion to use the Java awt class to do that in a "VB style" that would be cool, I'd think so anyway.

C is alright, can be annoying(I know it made some of us when doing an assignment "I miss Java, where's my Java?!", which is kinda funny :)), but it's still good, better than tryin to program in binary code anyway! (well in my "humble" opinion :))

Cain

28-Dec-2003, 03:43 PM

What is this "Programming" you speak of?

Does HTML and CSS count? :D

Noooooo!!!!!!! That's just programming for men and kiddy scripting for the programmers/geeks :woo:

Believe it or not, HTML designers were given a luxury pay in the years 1995-1998 :woo:

|Cain|

abby

28-Dec-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Cain
Anyone tried revese engineering/assembly in depth? ;)

|Cain|

would anybody actually say that they're a cracker on a public forum where information can be easily accessed? maybe i'm just parinoid.....

Cain

28-Dec-2003, 04:16 PM

They would :D

It's a martal arts forum not the microsoft website.......and it's the internet ;)

|Cain|

LilBunnyRabbit

28-Dec-2003, 04:30 PM

would anybody actually say that they're a cracker on a public forum where information can be easily accessed? maybe i'm just parinoid.....

1 4m 50 l33t th4+ 1 h4v3 41r34dy h4x0r3d y0ur c0mpu+3r 4nd cr4k3d ur p455w0rd. 1 4m th3 ub3r-l33t 0f l33ts.

I gotta stop burning that incense stuff...

Saz

28-Dec-2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by abby
would anybody actually say that they're a cracker on a public forum where information can be easily accessed? maybe i'm just parinoid.....

Cracking's not alway used for bad things and to wreck havoc. Saying you can reverse engineer stuff isn't illegal, plus, they'd need some concrete proof.

LBR, I don't know whats worse, you writing that, or me being able to read it! Don't troll the geeks by the way ;)

LilBunnyRabbit

28-Dec-2003, 05:00 PM

I think what's worse is that I've never written it before, but that it didn't slow down my typing speed at all...I'm a natural at l33t sp34k. Can someone remove my fingers now and put me out of my misery?

WhiteWizard

28-Dec-2003, 05:46 PM

Reverse engineering is a vital technique in day to day software engineering. it will be more than likely that most programmers will have used it at some point. can't say i've done it with assembly mind you.

rigsville

28-Dec-2003, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by hongkongfuey
I've voted clipper - truly a pioneering language. Object oriented database development tool (based on C) available in the early 90's.

I still dont think there is a tool available today that beats it.

I agree, I used to write Clipper Applications for a living many moons ago.

Terry Matthes

28-Dec-2003, 06:31 PM

Where's the love for Q BASIC :D

Greg-VT

28-Dec-2003, 11:51 PM

QBasic all the way!!!

WhiteWizard

28-Dec-2003, 11:54 PM

QBasic get a grip :D

Cain

29-Dec-2003, 02:29 AM

What about GWBASIC :D

|Cain|

rigsville

29-Dec-2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Cain
What about GWBASIC :D

Now I feel old!

spacepimp

10-Feb-2004, 05:51 AM

I voted for C- C#, I have always loved all of them, I am really into C# now. I am currently converting Legacy Linux programs into Managed C++ (not always as much fun as it sounds :D ) A standby will always be C, for driver development, but I am not really into drivers. The only thing with whole.net thing is they made it to open. There is even a COBOL.net and that should never have happend under any circumstances. It should to have been allowed to die a miserable and quiet death.

WhiteWizard

10-Feb-2004, 08:34 AM

The problem with letting COBOL die would be all those legacy systems still in it there are many i believe :). so someone get rid of them and we can give Cobol a good kicking along with Fortran :)

spacepimp

10-Feb-2004, 09:12 AM

unfortunantly they made fortran.net as well. The only good thing I can say about Cobol is it does handle data well. But, the whole premise was idiotic at best (creating a language even your manager could understand). Never quite lived up to the hyped just an overly wordy language with too many backflips needed to create a simple program. King of like Foxpro too damn wordy..

Virtuous

10-Feb-2004, 01:26 PM

C and C++ is what I use the most, supplimented with assembly.

Obi-Wan

10-Feb-2004, 02:19 PM

It would have to be VB

Overmind1984

11-Feb-2004, 08:49 PM

I will have to vote for C++. *cough* game programming *cough*

togakure_ninpo

14-Feb-2004, 03:12 PM

out of every language I have learned (C, C++, Perl, Python, Java, BASIC, and Aseembly), I would have to say that I most prefer Assembly. 32-bit Intel asm to be more specific. Too bad not many people ever learn asm, and if they do, they usually don't like it. The ability to have complete control over the code makes up for lack of portability, and stress of bug fixing. I actually started an OS project in Assembly about a year ago, but ended up loosing interest due to everyone else's uninterest. "why would you want an OS in assembly? why not write it in C?" *sighs heavily*

Adralian

14-Feb-2004, 04:16 PM

I voted for assembly. Yes, I have had to read hex from an x86 processor and reserve engineer to come up with the original asm, but only in a lab setting. It's a required skill for the embedded systems design classes at my college.

Cain, I still have hair, but I fear this will lead to premature loss of it.

togakure_ninpo

14-Feb-2004, 04:31 PM

this is interesting. I came to this forum because I have an interest in ninpo, and somehow I end up getting into a discussion about asm programming. the geek inside of me is just too strong.

must.....fight.....urge to....discuss....reverse engineering.....

praying-mantis

14-Feb-2004, 08:29 PM

Hey, I wanted to vote for Delphi, because it's great, but there's only pascal,
and the original pascal is a joke, so i don't vote at all.

And who the **** voted for Assembler???

amiller127

14-Feb-2004, 08:41 PM

wonder why prolog isnt down there? Cmon guys, how could you miss out such a wonderfull language!

xplasma

15-Feb-2004, 06:43 AM

wonder why prolog isnt down there? Cmon guys, how could you miss out such a wonderfull language! I remember last year when I was programmingin prolog for like a month straight. I started having nightmares. Head, Predicates, rules get out of brain!!

It was almost as bad as CLIPS (Don't think many of our Uk friends have seen that. Its a language created by NASA based on lisp used for AI programming)

Li Nan-Lung

10-Mar-2004, 09:33 AM

Well, I'm currently doing a Diploma of Software Development, which I wish to Followup with a Advanced Diploma of Games Development (Programming Stream), So my main focus is on C++.

SpinStorm

11-Mar-2004, 07:19 AM

i was tempted to vote for VB sinse im not bad at it and im a lightwieght when it comes to programming, but i voted for perl coz im drunk and the line
chomp($balls)
always makes me giggle :rolleyes:

Li Nan-Lung

11-Mar-2004, 10:47 AM

I voted for perl coz im drunk and the line
chomp($balls) always makes me giggle :rolleyes:Great mate, Now I want to learn Perl just for that reason :D

Saz

11-Mar-2004, 11:39 AM

i was tempted to vote for VB sinse im not bad at it and im a lightwieght when it comes to programming, but i voted for perl coz im drunk

Shouldn't you have voted for VB? Intoxication usually leads on to believe MS products are good :D

SpinStorm

12-Mar-2004, 01:09 AM

lol :D

Rus

12-Mar-2004, 06:51 PM

would anybody actually say that they're a cracker on a public forum where information can be easily accessed? maybe i'm just parinoid.....
Reverse engineering and assembler knowledge isn't just useful for cracking, it's more useful for algorithm optimisations, which is what I've mainly used it for.

spacepimp

12-Mar-2004, 08:55 PM

Reverse Engineering is very useful, and quite common. even Microsoft has tools for it in Visio (you also have to have Visual studio.net or 6.0). It will reverse engineer something into UML.

yes

27-Mar-2004, 11:56 PM

Really liking Java more and more I learn about it.

I don't have much basis to compare it to apart from a little bit of VB, C++, XHTML/CSS. Maybe if I learn C++ in more depth later on, I'll be able to weigh up the pros and cons for it myself.

Li Nan-Lung

28-Mar-2004, 09:44 AM

Man, I've just started learning PHP, and I'm in love. Although, It's not really a 'programming language', it's a 'scripting language' (Well, either way. No one really cares unless they're a Grammer Nazi or what not).

abby

29-Mar-2004, 06:27 AM

wow, a lot of java lovers out there.....

i'm hating java. not that it's hard, but i just dont' like it. (or maybe it's the way the instructor teachers it.) gimme my c++ any day over java.

yes

29-Mar-2004, 12:49 PM

What's to hate about Java?

Pros/cons Vs C++?

I used to dislike calling methods in Java I had no idea how they worked. Now I actually like it, because it means less code for me to write being a lazy bugger. :D I don't like being made to write my own data structures from scratch though at all! :(

WhiteWizard

29-Mar-2004, 04:21 PM

I think it depends on how you are used to programming to be honest i first programed in comal at school and then moved onto ada95 for the most part during the first two years at uni. I then learned java it took me a wee bit to get used to OO programming in general but i just like the power delivered by the API it has sometimes the code can be a bit clunky but in general i think you get used to the way it works. On the other hand someone who started in C++ will probably find the way java works horrible. I haven't used C++ myself i have used C though from the small bits of C++ i have seen i don't think i would like it much but it does has advantages in some areas

abby

29-Mar-2004, 08:39 PM

i really don't know what i dislike about java so much.... i just don't like it. (i know, that's the worst excuse in the world! but it's personal taste. just like some people like chocolate and some don't.)

and yeah, c++ was my first programming language, so it will probably always be my favorite. i'm biased!

yes

30-Mar-2004, 06:10 AM

VB was my first language.. doesn't mean it's still my favourite! ;)

Nukie

30-Mar-2004, 10:45 AM

Anyone ever used or heard of AsmL?

Its a language developed by microsoft.. seems pretty straight forward to use but I haven't seen much of it in the past few years! Thought it had maybe died a death like most other languages!

http://research.microsoft.com/fse/asml/

hongkongfuey

30-Mar-2004, 12:54 PM

Weird stuff - a programming language based around c#, dotnet and Word! I get the impression it is more of a prototyping tool (that also happens to be able to execute code as well)

spacepimp

30-Mar-2004, 06:05 PM

I do not know for sure, but I believe it could be related to ilasm (the intermediate language that all .net programs are translated to before they are really compiled). It is microsofts version of assembly.

Scipio

30-Mar-2004, 06:24 PM

Samurai_24

23-Apr-2004, 08:53 PM

Why I don't like Java.

Bigtime Virtual Memory consumption.

The most ambiguous error messages ever. (ie. "error: -1"... I saw that one in Sybase SQL Anywhere, which is written in Java).

Java is not "faster than any other OO language", like it was touted to be.

Java is not as "portable" as we were told it was.

Java syntax is a b*tch to write, let alone remember without having a book in front of you. Ugly code, even for a curly-bracket language!

I'm not saying it's the worst, but it certainly isn't the best!

WhiteWizard

23-Apr-2004, 09:16 PM

WhiteWizard

23-Apr-2004, 09:17 PM

I voted Java...I LOVE it!!!

Started many years ago with QBasic...Tried COBOL, C, C++ (and MFC). Java is the best IMHO. I also love ColdFusion, though I don't consider it a true Programming Language...more like HTML on Steroids...
i also like coldfusion especially as it is based on java technology and allows you to integrate jsp's servlets and even java code if you want too

Samurai_24

23-Apr-2004, 09:32 PM

i disagree with the error messages i find them really helpful especially with the automatic stack trace.

I find java syntax really easy to write personally.

and yes there are some cross platform differences but it is still very portable

The stack trace argument is valid, but that's from a developer standpoint... a lot of consumers like to see an error message that makes sense.

I'm guessing you find the syntax easy because you write in java the most? That's true about any language, you do it enough and it becomes second nature.

Java assumes a 32-bit machine with 8-bit bytes and IEEE754 floating-point math. Machines that don't fit that model won't run it efficiently. The majority of machines out there DO run it fine, however, my point was that it's not perfect. It was hyped up a lot.

It's still a slow memory-hog.

Lao

03-Jul-2004, 05:56 PM

Soapbox time:

I use ruby whenever possible. Since it wasn't on the list I voted for perl.

Here's the homepage: http://www.ruby-lang.org

This book is free to download (but worth buying): http://www.rubycentral.com/book/index.html

Here is a link to a free windows installer: http://rubyinstaller.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl

If you're running any other OS, ruby is probably already in the install tree.

Oh, and grouping C# with C/C++ is a travesty. C# is Java minus Sun's license, with a few keywords changed.

hongkongfuey

04-Jul-2004, 10:50 AM

Oh, and grouping C# with C/C++ is a travesty. C# is Java minus Sun's license, with a few keywords changed.

Yeah - good point. I should probably have said c/c++/c#/java/clipper/php if I'd wanted to group c# with c for some strange reason. Still too late to worry now!

Ruby - looks interesting. Will check it out.

Lao

04-Jul-2004, 04:17 PM

Yeah - good point. I should probably have said c/c++/c#/java/clipper/php if I'd wanted to group c# with c for some strange reason. Still too late to worry now!

No offense on calling it a "travesty", it can be one of those holy war topics.

What we need are tree based polls.. wait that wouldn't work, php would need perl as a root and C as a root..

yeah. that's polls for you. At least it's not a butterfly ballot.

Ruby - looks interesting. Will check it out.

On of the frequently quoted reasons for using ruby is that it "makes programming fun again". Mostly I think this is because there aren't alot of hoops you have to jump through to get the code to do what you were thinking. I particularly like the iterators and class member access tricks.

Jang Bong

13-Jul-2004, 09:30 AM

I voted C/C++ because I've done it the most.

Nobody's voted for COBOL... i wonder why..... *sarcasm*

I voted for it so it wouldn't feel left out. Systems I wrote for the retail sector 15 years ago are still rock solid - they may have moved from mainframes to UNIX networks, but the code is stable. :)

While working in a software house I got stuck with the legacy systems (because I could make them work), and the new environments have passed me by. I always hope that the 'new' stuff is simple enough to learn if I ever need it - but that doesn't help getting work if you don't have the relevant experience.

Someone cheer me up and say the new stuff is easy for an old-style programmer who knows logic and system design. :rolleyes:

Transaction Processing on an ICL mainframe involved designing the interactive screen - having the user fill in all parts of the screen and press the [SEND] button - and the program behind the screen processing the information and either returning with the same screen for correction or moving onto the next screen. One program per screen and each program having a number of specific directions it could move in. Ancient history? or a reasonable analogy to the Internet?? :(

I started out hundreds of years ago with 14k of usable programmable memory on an Olivetti mini-computer using and assembly language called BAL. It's amazing what we got that kit to do.

JohnnyX

13-Jul-2004, 12:08 PM

Transaction Processing on an ICL mainframe involved designing the interactive screen - having the user fill in all parts of the screen and press the [SEND] button - and the program behind the screen processing the information and either returning with the same screen for correction or moving onto the next screen. One program per screen and each program having a number of specific directions it could move in. Ancient history? or a reasonable analogy to the Internet?? :(

Blummin heck!

I worked in ICL sites for about 12 years. C02/C03/FXBM, OSLAN, DRS300 CDOS, DRS/NX, etc, etc.

Them were the days!

Jang Bong

13-Jul-2004, 12:26 PM

Hi Johnny - checked your profile (in the past), and I think we may have a fair few things in common. Are there many older bods than us about??? :rolleyes:

Hui Lai

13-Jul-2004, 01:18 PM

Voted Java. It's just so fun. .NET just makes me think of fast ways to end my career. C++ is pretty sweet too... but-ya know, the whole memory thing...

Tika

13-Jul-2004, 01:37 PM

I write in C#. Absolutely hate c++. It was the first language I started learning in college and it turned me off from programming completely. Doubly linked lists *vomit*.

Now we decided that we need to learn enough c++ to translate unmanaged code into mangaged code so we can write a wrapper for the API thingamabob. Im devastated. I dont want to go back to C++....

And whats this about grouping C# with C being a travesty? I dont know much about the other languages (just started programming four or five months ago if you dont count the classes I took in college). All I know is that the programmers we have been working with that work in c++/c that were going to write us something in c# were a little tentative at first. They had writting their trading platform in c++ and didnt know if c# could handle it. They did some testing and found that c# and c++ were very comprable when it comes to speed. (faster in some areas slower in others) .

I dont know which is better memory management wise. But im just happy there are no seg faults in c#. Although Im sure the error just has a different name, debuggin in .NET is soooo much easier then debugging was when I was learning c++... (maybe thats allt he college professors fault, I will find out when I have to teach myself c++ :( )

.NET just makes me think of fast ways to end my career.
I dont get it?

KenpoDavid

13-Jul-2004, 05:28 PM

I debuggin in .NET is soooo much easier then debugging was when I was learning c++...

the ease or lack of ease of debugging is more dependant on the development environment than it is on the language. For example, it is possible to write Java code using notepad. Debugging tools : none. We use Eclispe, it has some debugging tools, but nothing like what I was used to when I was writing VB and uing a MS IDE. MS has the IDE thing down! MS is the Grandmaster of IDE's! SO when you are writing c#, I think (and I would be interested to hear detailed analysis of where this is wrong) I think you are basically doing C++, just with an advanced IDE. Is that close to correct?

But anyway, my favorite applications development language is VB6. MS Office automation is fun and can make business users go "WOW! Holy Cow how did you do that in just 2 days!! You are a freakin genius!" which is usually a good feeling ;)

Tika

13-Jul-2004, 06:24 PM

We used VB6 at first, and found that when we switched to C#, it took us half the time to write our programs. Both good Development environments, althought I think Visual Studios needs some fixes.

I think I hated C++ more for linked lists and null pointers than my problems with debugging. I guess those debug problems had to do with the fact that we were made to use unix.... I hate unix...

LilBunnyRabbit

13-Jul-2004, 06:25 PM

I have to say, having just got it, that Delphi 8 Studio for Microsoft .NET is absolutely beautiful. I mean, its just perfect, beats Visual Studio into the ground in seconds. Delphi could've been designed for .NET, they blend perfectly.

HearWa

13-Jul-2004, 07:17 PM

C++ all the way! As far as the memory leak problems go with the langauge, you can write your own simple memory manager easily. Just put it in global scope, and write a definition in the copy constructor to get rid of all the memory on the heap. Also, of course, include a method so you could do this whenever you want. This may not be as fancy as commercial memory managers, but it'll cut the cake just as well. ;)

I'm actually playing around with 6502 assembly as of now. I don't have the time or patience to learn the x86 assembly language, but I do want to learn the fundamentals of assembly. 6502 asm is perfect... you don't have to worry about the heap, there's a minimal amount of registers and a small(er) instruction set!

Any girl geeks/MAists feel free to hit me up: I'm looking! lol :o

Saz

13-Jul-2004, 08:06 PM

l
I dont get it?

I think he means he hates it? :D

Wesker

13-Jul-2004, 08:46 PM

Have any of you become bored or burned out with programming? I've been at it now for 10 years and it just doesn't hold the excitement that it used to.

One of these days I'm going to run away and work at DisneyWorld.

Tika

13-Jul-2004, 08:52 PM

10 years wesker? Damn, I dont think ive ever done any one thing for that long :D. Except maybe karate or softball, but those arent 40 hour a week things...Ack. I hope you change languages to keep you interested. What have you gone through in 10 years? (Ive only been into it about 6 months, but I can say Id never go back to my first language again...do you switch from language to language for different tasks ? do you have your favorites? Or do you just use your current language for all tasks during that time period?)

sorry, that may have been jibberish, but lets see....

Jang Bong

13-Jul-2004, 09:04 PM

Wesker / Tika - I'm diving in on this one.

20 years with a software house in the North East of England was based on the fact that technology changed an we got the chance to change with it. Also the idea that company loyalty and dedication counted for something. (OK, I've grown up a bit since then and know exactly what loyalty is worth :( )

The problem was getting good at old stuff, and also being an 'old style' analyst being able to decypher other peoples lousy code. Ended up stuck maintaining the COBOL section (section??? ME!!) and trying to force a 3rd party heap of 'Can't Read All Programs' accounting software programmed in 'C' to behave. :woo:

Won't bore you with what followed, but I am adaptable. ;)

Can people still do the whole job? Analysis / Design / Development / Installation / Training / Support. That's the way we used to do it, but the job seems to be too comparmentalized (sp) these days.

I can still see BAL assembly code in my mind, and I joke with my current students (night classes) that not only do I go back before MOUSE, I go back before SCREEN. We had a 32 character strip display to have every question asked and answered. [I know - I am a dinosaur :eek: :D :eek: ]

JohnnyX

13-Jul-2004, 09:10 PM

[I know - I am a dinosaur :eek: :D :eek: ]

My friend is nodding in agreement. :D :D :D

http://hjem.get2net.dk/petermad4/animals/dinosau2.gif

Wesker

14-Jul-2004, 12:24 PM

do you switch from language to language for different tasks ? do you have your favorites? Or do you just use your current language for all tasks during that time period?)

Currently, all projects are in Java. Occasionally I'll tinker and put together a Perl script just for the fun of it.

At one point I downloaded the source code for an old ASCII D&D game called Nethack (www.nethack.org). It's written in C, and is approximately 100K lines. It's fun to look around and track variables, relocate #define macros to actual functions, etc.

I hope to one day be able to port Nethack to Java, and give it a graphical UI. I need a structured plan. I can't rush in all guns blazing and start ripping out code. I'll also need to convert the game rules to D&D v. 3.5. Ugh.