How do you train?

[pgm316]

How do you train? Is it Valuable? Realistic? Pointless?

To get the most benefit from training, I believe it must be as realistic as possible without the risk of injury being too great! Its never going to be like a real situation. But, what is a real situation? Its unlikely to be another martial artist is it? Could be somebody that only kicks, or somebody that only wants to get hold of you! So occasionally its important to have your training partner react in certain ways as opposed to the style of your club.

We’re never going to train with somebody using bites or eye gouges. Or even enough meaningful blows to leave you walking out of the club every week with a bust lip and bloody nose. For most people that would defeat the whole object of training in the first place. There should still be enough intent in their attack to experience how effective you’re moves are likely to be in a real situation. A training partner that acts like a compliant robot could get you in serious trouble in a real situation, when you realise the once effectives moves don’t work against somebody that doesn’t want to be beaten!

During sparring I’m sure we all do it [?]. That is, whether consciously or not, adjust the realism and fighting style as you change partners during a sparring session to get more benefit out of it. As you go from a novice to a black belt it should be more realistic to really test your abilities. Then you change your fight strategy to give you the edge over a difficult opponent. Whether its playing around with some new moves or going for something there weak at. Then unless you’re somebody that likes to bully newcomers, you’ll use less strength against a weak opponent or less speed against a slow one. Then you can still get some benefit out of the training without simply steamrolling your opponent into submission.

[ladyhawk]

OK, I want to touch on self defense and street technique training as being realistic training. Do self defense training in street clothes occasionally. I mean just like you wear in everyday life...
jeans, jackets, hats, watches, necklaces, pagers, cell phones, the
works. Now, work on your self defense techniques. You'll be surprised just how different it feels from a gi and bare feet.
You'll find that those kicks are a little hard to do if not impossible in those tight butt jeans. You need to learn to adapt your techniques not only to your circumstances and environment but also you personal self at any given time. Hats fall off, pagers drop, change comes out of your pocket and you have to learn to ignore all these things unless you are using them to your advantage as a distraction because you can't afford to be distracted by something that can be replaced.

Thoughts anyone?

[morphus]

Some items - mobile phone for instance make a good weapon, and you can always throw lose change (thats gorra hurt) or your hat for distraction, anything for survival!
I like this sort of stuff!!!!!!

[ladyhawk]

Yes, I agree that we as martial artists recognize these items as
weapons and distractions but the average person often tries to catch their possessions as they fall, thus leaving themselves vulnerable. If you can automatically use it to your advantage, fine but if you have to think about what to do with it...let it go. There's no time to think.

[pgm316]

Having some weapons training is valuable, it makes you realize how anything can be used as a weapon. I also find you respond better to other people when there using weapons.

We sometimes play a game that works well. One person starts off in the middle with a large plastic bottle, everybody else stands around in a circle. Their aim is to hit somebody on the head with the bottle, if they do that person is out of the game, but if the person manages to get the attacker in an arm lock etc they get control of the bottle.

Might sound silly, but you learn a lot of things you can’t do when you have a knife or stick in your hand. It really does prove which moves work and which don’t, and it doesn’t hurt much!

[ladyhawk]

Hey, good game. Gonna have to try that.

Not sure I understand your statement, "I also find you respond better to other people when there using weapons."

Do you mean you're more attentive?

Remember, don't focus so much on the artificial weapons that you
overlook the natural weapons.

[Andy Murray]

In every walk of life we find ourselves doing things automatically. Ever driven and suddenly realised you haven't taken in anything for five miles, or read three pages of a book only to have to go back and do them again? Soometimes we just let our sub-conscious take over.

As stated it is difficult to train for reality all the time, eventually an accident is going to happen if you are habitually training against an opponent with a real broken bottle in the Dojo.

Sometimes we spar automatically, especially with people we know very well. We can fall into set patterns and responses.

I feel that it is important to visualise reality, even when sparring for fun.

If you are sparring kicks n punches, instead of the safety equipment, imagine your opponent has broken glass on both hands and feet. Don't allow yourself to be struck, and don't strike unless you can be 200% effective. If grappling, imagine your opponent has aids or hepatitis, or a syringe full of weedkiller in their spare hand. Lock em up and choke em out.

We can't train for total reality all the time, but we can visualise it!

The mind is the ultimate weapon!

Andy

[pgm316]

Originally posted by ladyhawk

Not sure I understand your statement, "I also find you respond better to other people when there using weapons."

Do you mean you're more attentive?


I meant, when you learn how to use weapons, you become better at defending against them. I found it works for me. I become better at anticipating attacks and my timing improves. For example if you learn some stick fighting(Eskrima), you’ll be able to defend better against someone picking a stick up or other object.

[morphus]

I like this thread, theres some good ideas and info' going on - i'm learning a lot here about visualisation and getting some training games too, anyone else got any good training ideas? I also teach so i'm continuously looking for ideas.(i do get some of my own occasionally!):D

[ladyhawk]

OK pgm316, I understand your statement and I agree.

[ladyhawk]

morphus,
To keep everyone on their toes during class at any given time you may hear the following two phrases, "Kamae" and "On your back" spoken as a command from sensei. If you hear the word Kamae, it doesn't matter what you are doing at the time you immediately get into a good on guard fighting stance and be prepare to defend yourself. The same way when you hear On your back, you immediately do a back breakfall and bring yourself into a guarding position and be prepared to defend yourself on the floor.

Yes, someone is sure to come after you if you aren't paying attention.

[pgm316]

I agree with what Sean O said in the Ninjitsu section, there’s different ways of training. Different ways will suit different people. Maybe we don’t consider this enough when discussing topics.

Not only is there training for different styles of fighter, there’s the psychological aspect of the fight which is often overlooked. Somebody might have all the tools for a fight, but if there not mentally geared up they won’t use them right. And on the other hand you’ll all have seen the beginner that comes training and you just know they have the right attitude to be a good martial artist if they’re committed enough.

And then you must appreciate different people want different things out of their training. The majority of us seem to want to train realistically, but not at the expensive of picking up too many injuries. That’s why I’m always willing to learn new training techniques. Then you get people that want to train to the extreme like their going to enter the UFC, they want to train realistically regardless of injuries they will get. The other set of people appears to have forgot they do martial arts training, with little concern for their fighting ability. Maybe once motivated to learn martial arts, they now only train for fitness or to remain part of a club were they now have a lot of friends.

[ladyhawk]

Yes, an individual's training depends on their mindset. Regardless of the fact that each of us has different goals and we don't all personally train the same way I think we do a rather nice job of respectfully sharing our combined wealth of knowledge with one another.

[morphus]

Very well put ladyhawk!!!!:D

[pgm316]

Originally posted by ladyhawk
Yes, an individual's training depends on their mindset. Regardless of the fact that each of us has different goals and we don't all personally train the same way I think we do a rather nice job of respectfully sharing our combined wealth of knowledge with one another.

Don't you think the goals people have will govern their mindset?
To me, its all one and the same thing.

I agree we do a good job of sharing our knowledge. Sometimes too much knowledge sharing and not enough open discussion. Martial artists can be very unyielding in their views, often the one martial art they train in is gospel. I’ll admit to that myself. But I do try to be open minded and willing to pick up a white belt and spend time studying other martial arts.

[Freeform]

We can fall into set patterns and responses.


Ever notice when your practicing basic drills there seems to be a natural gap between each new technique?

What I try to do is break the rythem, when you do this with a partner who still trains to a rythem, you'll notice they start to move into the technique before you've even attacked them!

Thought?

[pgm316]

Its an easy mistake to fall into. Not sure how less valuable it makes the training. Its happened many times when I’ve been attacking and my opponent has already begun the block before I’ve punched. Amusing when you get blamed for not putting the punch in early enough.

Its always going to be a problem with set routines. Its really the job of the attacker to make the attacks more varied, maybe switching hands randomly and same with front hand/back hand.

[waya]

Try working in random drills. I use a drill that starts as each person using 3 random attacks, then holding the 3rd in place and the other counters and attacks with 3 random techniques, etc etc. This progresses to simultaneous attacks and counters that are all random, alot like sparring in a way.

Rob

[Thomas Vince]

I want to add my three cents, not two but three.
I personally believe that I will defend and execute the way I train. Some hardcore Karate like Shotokan and Isshin-Ryu as well as other traditional arts will have a very hardened attitude toward training, expecially if they are of eastern or asian ethnic group. It can also be hardened if the instructor has experienced war or street fights for what ever reason.

I train myself and my students to understand three important factors about an attack and their fighting priority:

1. Environment. Make it work for you and be aware instantly of where it can work against you. There should be a strategy, simple yet effective if followed evertime, where you insure safety in route and exit while traversing in any task.

2. Body Position. The body position that you are in when attacked. Creating directional harmony in every movement and direction that you travel. The position of your body at any given time, like bending into the trunk to put groceries in. Keeping mindful of this will prevent precarious situations and being caught off guard.

3. Range. The range of targets from you and what weapons would be most useful in that range, like you would not use a kick when an elbow or a knee would reach the target with more efficiency.

I believe that if you consider these three things it would cover virtually all other variables that could be added into any given scenario either empty hand attack or weapon attack. I also belive that redirecting an attack rather than stoping it allows you to gain speed and time, this is important in a life threatening situation.

[morphus]

You all make a lot of good sence there!