Basic Kicking

[Jeff23]

Hi All--

I've begun to learn basic kicking in Combat Hapkido. For yellow belt, there's a front kick, side kick, and back kick. I find that doing the kicks is my current greatest challenge. I'm ok at punching and the elementary wrist grabs. But the kicks seem to require more balance and flexibility than I currently command.:) This is of course great news, since I can work on the kicks and gain some flexibility.

I have a lot of trouble getting my hips and body to rotate--specifically, I don't feel light enough on my feet to pivot on the ball of my foot when I kick. I have a new pair of wrestling shoes which seem to stick to the mat, but I'm sure it's me, not the shoes.:rolleyes:

I have slightly better performance kicking with my right foot. When I kick with my left foot, I have to put the weight on my right leg & my very hinky right knee, and I can't get myself to pivot on the toe at all. I've been favoring that knee since 1972.

Anyway, if anyone has any advice and/or knows some step-by-step exercises or good safe practice routines to do at home, I'd be grateful. I'm going to ask my instructor too of course, just didn't think to ask him last night.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Utotin]

There is no quick fix. Just be patient & practice alot. Copy your teacher's form. Make sure you practice your kicks slowly in front of a mirror to make sure you get the technique right.

[Jeff23]

Thanks--never thought of doing it in front of a mirror, so I've already learned something :) I'm in no rush--it will happen when it happens. But I admit to two ambitions: 1) not to practice bad habits and 2) to practice effectively. But maybe # 1 is part of #2.

[Bruce W Sims]

I second the idea of using a mirror at home. I would also add "use a chair". Most people do not flex their knee when they execute their kicks. In the name of speed and to rely on mostly their larger muscles they tend to keep the leg relatively straight. Not good.
You want to force ALL of the muscles in the legs and hips to pull their fair share of the work. Used to be the old masters would make young students do hundreds of kicks to get the big muscle groups tired fast so that the smaller muscles and structures were forced into greater activity. Nowadays we know that doing the kick S-l-o-w-l-y and to full extension is just as good if not better. Doing the kicks over a chair makes sure that you are truely lifting your leg and flexing your knee. 20x with each leg, for each kick is about all you need, but I might as well warn you that you will "hear about it" from your body the next morning! FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Schmeag]

Just a side question. Should you still execute kicks if your knees are feeling a little loose at the time? By loose, I mean that when you stand, your knees seem to be unable to rest in one place and flop backwards and forwards.

[Jeff23]

Thanks Bruce-- if I may, I have a further question: I'm envisioning your exercise as turning a chair sideways, then slowly lifting my knee all the way up, then extending the foot into the kick at an approximately ninety-degree angle, i.e. above the chair seat, then back to the positon with the knee all the way up, then foot back down to the floor. And this would be a front kick. Am I seeing it correctly?

[Bruce W Sims]

Thanks Bruce-- if I may, I have a further question: I'm envisioning your exercise as turning a chair sideways, then slowly lifting my knee all the way up, then extending the foot into the kick at an approximately ninety-degree angle, i.e. above the chair seat, then back to the positon with the knee all the way up, then foot back down to the floor. And this would be a front kick. Am I seeing it correctly?

Yes; thats correct. You are doing the kicks slowly over the seat of the chair. Later, when you start doing other kicks such as Inside Crescent, Outside Crescent and Sidekicks, you can start by going over the seat and later "graduate" to using the back of the chair, if you like. The key is still to do the kick S-l-o-w-l-y and not use momentum.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Bruce W Sims]

Just a side question. Should you still execute kicks if your knees are feeling a little loose at the time? By loose, I mean that when you stand, your knees seem to be unable to rest in one place and flop backwards and forwards.


One thing that is incredibly important in the Hapkido arts is the matter of the joints. Not only are these attacked repeatedly by the techniques, but executing the techniques pre-supposes that one moves from a stable posture to a stable posture as the technique is being executed. If your joints are unstable, with hyperextension, lateral motion, "popping" and discomfort, you need to listen to your body and start a separate program of caring for those joints. Even young people with very healthy joints need to be counseled to care for their joints as they train. Its embarrassing to have to report that there are huge numbers of KMA and Hapkido schools that simply do not emphasize this enough. The result is that people develop bursitis and tendonitis and continue to try to "train-through-it" until they are almost forced to stop by the discomfort. In the meantime their techniques get worse and worse. Rather stupid, really.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Thomas]

I have a lot of trouble getting my hips and body to rotate--specifically, I don't feel light enough on my feet to pivot on the ball of my foot when I kick. I have a new pair of wrestling shoes which seem to stick to the mat, but I'm sure it's me, not the shoes.:rolleyes:


I have a good friend who started off wearing wrestling shoes (he had trained at a NHB school for a while). The problem with the shoes was that as he pivoted his bottom foot (to open the hips), the shoes would "stick" and put pressure on his knee while slowing down his kicks. Try working the kicks barefooted as well as in other shoes. The wrestling boots may have "too much" grip. Work the kicks slowly too.

[Jeff23]

Thanks Thomas-- it's interesting about the shoes. Back in the early 80's I was wrestling with a pair of running shoes on, my opponent went for a hip throw, and my shoe sole got caught in the mat. The result was a dislocated left kneecap. So when I took up CH I went out and found a pair of wrestling shoes. They're ASICS with gum soles--and I have noticed that they do grab pretty solidly.

But if I were better at footwook I don't think it would be such an issue. I'm going to try it barefoot as you suggest. Meanwhile, if anyone has suggestions for a shoe that grips enough but not to much I'd like to know about it.

Best,

Jeff

[Bruce W Sims]

My own experience has been that its not the shoe but rather the surface that you are on when you are wearing them.

I have trained on concrete and tile and was very happy to wear any sort of shoes at all since there is always some hint of dust that generally keeps the shoe from locking-into the floor surface. But on mats----especially vinyl or rubber coated mats--- bare feet are pretty much the best way to go. The only grey area I can think of are the recent spate of textured mats where the surface is mottled in some way such as to produce a "tatami-look". Into this group I also toss the "puzzle piece" mats with their many oppotunities to catch on an edge. I don't know what to tell you about these latter examples but I would suggest caution---- and maybe a harder-surfaced mat shoe rather than the soft gummy ones. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Last Empire]

Hi, I am not sure if you have already worked this out with your instructor or not, but I thought I might drop an idea or two that may in the least support or not support what you may have been told.

I admit my kicking experience comes from WTF Tae kwon Do, which I know isnt Hapkido, but I believe because of the style there is some focus on some basic ideas that I see alot of times looked over

Firstly, when you are doing your kicks, if you are new to kicking, I have to agree with the slowly advice offered by Bruce. To really understand the move its better to do it slow to work out the mechanics of it. Alot of the times I see black belts throwing their legs out like they have been told to, probably cause their teacher got told to back in the day, and not only is the kick sloppy, inefficient but also dangerous to the joints.

When you do kick front kick, round house kick, do not kick so that the kicking leg goes absolutely straight with force, this will cause alot of bad impact on the knee when there is no resisting force on the other end (ie a bag or pad)

Take your kicks slowly when you practice at home, if done wrong they can give you unbelievable back problems, knee problems, muscle problems. try and understand the kicks and most importantly look at the people who have "Beautiful" kicks (ie Bruce Lee, Taejoon Lee of Hwarangdo, Nicholas Tse). A person who does a beautiful, not just a fast hard kick usually has alot more controll over their body and you can learn alot from them. Not to say that is how you would do it in a fight, but it is at times a good way to learn how not to hurt yourself.

But read all you can, the last thing you want to do is listen to bad advice and hurt yourself

[Hapki-jutsu]

one thing a hapkido friend of mine suggests is isolating the part of the movement you're having trouble with.

work on the hip rotation only. not the extension.


one thing that really helped me was...bend your knee, the support leg knee. it puts your balance in a different place.

and example of what i mean.

with a side kick you chamber across your body. chamber very high, and thrust only your knee out sideways, not the full kick. use the power of your knee thrust to pivot your support foot. dont even extend the kick yet. just do this over and over. chamber and thrust your knee, and allow that movements momentum to pivot your foot. so you work only on getting your hip in the right spot.

then later as you extend your leg, you let your hip roll over..you should be looking over your shoulder behind you for a side kick.

for a round kick, the kick should extend around 3/4 of the way to the target before you add your hip to it. your hip twists at the same time your support foot pivots. the momentum of the kick is what pivots your support foot. i find it helps to "think UP"..or even kick upwards at first. i chamber like a front kick personally, and deliver the kick as a front kick (at least at first) about 3/4 of the way to the target you snap your hip over and pivot on the ball of your support foot...thats what changes it from a front kick to a round kick, your hip, not your kicking leg.

[Jeff23]

Hi All--

Wow, thanks to all for the excellent advice! I wasn't kicking very hard or fast to begin with, but I've slowed down even more and am just trying to feel and understand the mechanics. Some of the checkpoints you've all given me seem very helpful, i.e., about the position of the hips, the supporting knee, etc. I am using Bruce's original advice re: kicking over a chair seat. I've been away on a camping trip for the last few days (but I did some gentle kicking, stretching, yoga poses, and pelvic tilt crunches every day--we were camping near the beach and I think some of the other vacationers thought I was a crazy old coot).

One thing I'm starting to notice is that my hips are opening a bit more easily every day and each kick is getting easier to execute. I am amazed at the balance issues though--if I lean back too much or not enough, or mis-execute the kick, I end up out of balance and ready to fall over. But if I'm doing it correctly, I come back to my stance right in balance. I am getting my instructor and peers at the dojang to help me too.

This whole thing of staying in balance and stable seems like my current challenge. If I do the same three or four techniques in a series, say backfist, cross, elbow, knee, I come out in good stable balance on one side, but not the other. So I stop and go back with my training partner and do it more slowly until I can stay in balance. I don't know whether this is a typical problem, but I'm working on it.:)

I am off to Wales for a conference on Saturday, but will do my little routine in my hotel room.

Thanks again!