Chronic lower back pain

[PlasmaShock]

About a year and a hald ago I went to the beach during the summer. When I got there, I noticed some sand pits that I could use for practising jumping techniques and flips. The pits where about a foot deep and had a perfect grassy edge to jump off of. I did this for about an hour or two(not consecutive because that would be completely exhausting). Anyways it was time to go and my legs where a little sore which is usual after doing a lot of jumping.

The next day I woke up with a really sore lower back and I thought that it was normal too. But my back would be sore from then on. The pain in my lower back would get pretty bad during jumps or tricking and it wouldn't stop. I have been enduring this for a year and a half and it has severly affected the quality of my techniques and is stopping the progression of learning new things. So a month ago I went to the physio and they diagnosed me with a injured hip. Jumping and landing on the right leg for certain tricks or techniques made my right hip higher than the left making the left leg longer. This also causes cronic pain in the right area of my lowerback.

After many physio sessions, I learned about exercises I could do to strengthn my core and hip area. Well after about a month of physio, the pain had diminished and was now in the left side or middle of my lowerback(better than pain the right side of my lowerback). But it never goes away. I keep bugging my parents to see the physio again but they said I don't need to go because I was done physio. This is really aggrivating me.

I really want to do these acrobatics because I enjoy it and there aren't any other hobbies that I'm interested in. Weight training kills my back and my legs are getting fatter which is slowing my kicks alot, I can't do plyometics to jump higher, and I can't train to get the body I want. I am desperate for help so I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me advice.

Thanks.

[Su lin]

Hi Plasma,

I have been getting lower back pain more or less constantly for the last few years now.It was diagnosed as 2 things really, mechanical problems with the joints down my spine which then causes the muscles to cramp, and also problens with my sacroilliac joint and the tendons around it. I had physio that didn't really help but I did get a friend to try a tui na massage- it's basically a deep tissue/muscle massage that can unlock muscles but also you can identify if there are other root causes. Often in lower back pain the pain is a sypmtom of something else being misaligned elsewhere in the body. I need to get one of these every month or, like I am now,I start being in pain more or less all the time. I do kung fu/mma so am rolling around or kicking a lot, which can really aggravate the pain and the muscles.
I also found Omega 3 oils helped, taking 3 on a regular basis keeps me more "oiled" and supple. Strengthening your core is essential, make that part of your routine and it will stand you well for your tricking and acrobatics anyway.
I find I can train through pain now with painkillers (tablets and gel) and I know when I need to take a break too.

Good luck with it anyway ,I know how it can get you down!

[Frodocious]

I pulled a muscle in my back about 2 years ago and it still aches now. However, I have noticed that since I've been doing heavy deadlifts the pain has got a lot better - probably as I have tightened up my core and improved my posture.

As Lou says, a lot of lower back pain is actually related to problems elsewhere in the body, e.g. tight hips muscles. If you can persuade your parents to let you see a physio that would be a good move, if not try to get a good massage, stretch and work on core strength and posture. Don't sit slumped behid a computer all day!

[yannick35]

Get yourself into a good sport medical clinic they work has a team not a one person type of thing.

You first see the sport doctor that runs the diagnostics, he might send you for an MRI since you have been having issues for a long time now.

You must understand that lifting heavy weights or anything to drastic will make it a lot worst since most of the time the underlaying muscles are weak compared to the musclemass.

If you train your abs and lower back muscles that will not work the under laying muscles of the pelvic region is what i am saying.

I have been suffering from back pain for 8 years now and upper neck pain because of heavy squatting and deadlifts.

The sport clinic is the only place that is getting me back on my feet, telling me what i can and cant do.

Also you need to have patience because an injury like this will not heal fast.

I have been doing PT exercises for 2 months now with some good relief but i am still not 100%

[Tom O'Brien]

I have a slipped disc in the lower lumbar area and some arthritis in the spinal canal for good measure. The doctors claim that although working out is good for you - high impact activities like MA can do damage over the long run. So mine is from wear & tear - now they tell me. I've been doing all types of MA for over 35 yrs. I just started physical therapy & we are hoping to move the disc back a little to get some relief from the pain. Anybody have a slipped disc?

Thanks,
Tom

[yannick35]

I have a slipped disc in the lower lumbar area and some arthritis in the spinal canal for good measure. The doctors claim that although working out is good for you - high impact activities like MA can do damage over the long run. So mine is from wear & tear - now they tell me. I've been doing all types of MA for over 35 yrs. I just started physical therapy & we are hoping to move the disc back a little to get some relief from the pain. Anybody have a slipped disc?

Thanks,
Tom

I use an inversion table and a lumbar extender, i am not sure if theres would provide relief for you but they have worked wonders for me.

Also working the pelvic muscles can stabilize the spin.

I have had so many chiropratic adjustments i did a year and a half of this crap and my ligaments are slack.

My current PT which is amazing gave me theses exercises to do to strenghten the pelvic region, maybe you should also look in sport medecin.

[Tom O'Brien]

yannick,

Thanks for the advice.

Tom

[PlasmaShock]

I use an inversion table and a lumbar extender, i am not sure if theres would provide relief for you but they have worked wonders for me.

Also working the pelvic muscles can stabilize the spin.

I have had so many chiropratic adjustments i did a year and a half of this crap and my ligaments are slack.

My current PT which is amazing gave me theses exercises to do to strenghten the pelvic region, maybe you should also look in sport medecin.

My parents are tired of taking me to physios and doctors. I've already seen two and my back has been sore for 1 and a half to 2 years now. Something is very wrong and I'm sick of this and desperate for any healing or relief.

[Schmeag]

Regarding pain relief (although it won't actually treat the actual problem), have you tried taking painkillers or asked your doctor about a nerve block? Painkillers tend to work short-term, but an injection could potentially relieve pain for about three months. Of course, you'd be wanting some kind of diagnosis and subsequent treatment as well...

[adouglasmhor]

My parents are tired of taking me to physios and doctors. I've already seen two and my back has been sore for 1 and a half to 2 years now. Something is very wrong and I'm sick of this and desperate for any healing or relief.
Tough for them, it sucks being a parent sometimes but they are your parents. You have to go to things like a physio or a sports doctor for a course of treatment not just one visit to get results.

[PCG82]

Lower back pain unfortunately is the norm, 80% of people suffer it at least for one spell in their life time. If you dont suffer from it your in the minority.

[yannick35]

Most people who have chronic pains and no spin damage must check out prolotherapy, most of the time chronic pains are due to lax ligaments and weak muscles do to supporting the lax ligaments.

You need to rebuild your muscles surrounding your back and prolotherapy will take care of the ligaments and tendons that are weak.

A good glucosamine supplement i use universal animal flex and universal animal omega which have won best supplement awards for 3 years strenght, plus i use genacol a 4 matrix collagen supplement.

This can really help rebuild the disks and rehydrate them.

BUt the most important thing to avoid disk damage or rebuild is to really decompress the back.

I have been very vocal on the rebuildyourback website because it works, you donate 20$ and download the e-book, this is the best program i have done yet, even better then what the PT gave me to do.

Anyone interested getting the program PM me i can send it to you via e-mail for free. This program is to good to be true.

The cobra is amazing and will decompress the back, eliminate most spams, also the e-book is packed with information, why most medical doctors will use drugs and nsac anti-inflamatory drugs instead of going to the root of the problem.

Why going to a chiroprator can do more arm then good. You know how i feel about chiros read my other post. Some people might have been brainwashed about there effectivness but the book will shed some light on all theses stinkers.

Living with pain is limiting our lives, life is just not worth living with pain, i know i have been suffering for 8 years.

I want to help anyone that i can help feel better and get back on there feet.

Good luck to all of you.

[Frodocious]

Lower back pain unfortunately is the norm, 80% of people suffer it at least for one spell in their life time. If you dont suffer from it your in the minority.

From what I've read it seems to me a lot of lower back pain is due to lifestyle issues rather than exercise induced. Its due to poor posture, too much time spent slouched in front of the computer/TV and lack of exercise leading to muscle weakness. There seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence that when people with bad backs start a decent exercise/weight training program and deal with posture and muscle imbalances, the pain often eases up or goes away completely. In my experience (after pulling a back muscle doing 'superman' type exercises) the only advice I got from the doctor was rest it and stretch it. There was no advice about (or offer of) rehab and no suggestions for exercises to help with strengthening the back muscles to prevent future problems. I suffered for a good year or so until I started to do heavy weight training and since then I've had virtually no pain.

[raydvd]

i have had chronic back pain for about 20 years but did nothing about it all this time.had to go to physio and am now working on my core muscles and am trying to learn to take it easy when i,m sore.

Also about the fat legs and fitness , cycling is a fantastic way to get fit.... my back maybe as weak as a kittens but my legs are like pistons now lol

[ramancity]

Hi yannick35.

Would appreciate if you could email me rebuil your back. I injured my L4/L5 & L5/S1 disc back in dec 2005 while training in MA. I've tried all kinds of things to help heal it including chiropractors, but nothing has workded for me. Hope you don't mind.
Cheers. . .

[yannick35]

Hi yannick35.

Would appreciate if you could email me rebuil your back. I injured my L4/L5 & L5/S1 disc back in dec 2005 while training in MA. I've tried all kinds of things to help heal it including chiropractors, but nothing has workded for me. Hope you don't mind.
Cheers. . .

What MA did you do to get injured like this? must have been rough, i did squatting with very bad forms 505 pounds and deadlifting and that scewed up my ligaments guess i was lucky.

I had to reformat my computer and lost everything including the rebuildyourback program, i know it by heart but you should really get it for 20$ its well worth the money, the exercises are heavily based on yoga, but you have to read the whole e-book at least one time and make sure to do the exercises has they are explained in the book.

Dean Moyer has put a lot of time to write this e-book its packed with information and well worth the 20$, its not a cure all.

You didnt say much on your injury, do you have a hernia, disc degeneration? or something else?

What have you tried so far with more info maybe i can help you a bit more.

[ramancity]

At the time of injury, I was very active in a number of things - MA, soccer, basketball and weight training. The day before i got hurt i was doing shoulder presses. the day i got injured i was doing MA - and we were doing circuit training, mainly ab exercises. then after that we did sparring and thats when it happened, as i spinned to kick. I won't say it the spinning kick itself that caused my injury, this was more like the final blow. I believe it was stress on my back from all the activities I was doing.

I did an MRI scan. and one doctor told me it was prolapse disc another told me it was hernia. I asked whats the difference between the 2, they both said it was the same things. LOL. so yeah, my injury is a herniated disc, mainly on the L5/S1. The L4/L5 is mildly affected. Initially it was pinching my nerves, but since I have stopped most acitivity i dont get that probelm any more.

I have tried chiropractic treatments, yoga, many different types of massages. they provided relief for me but , mostly it didn't work for me. And I have spent a lot of money hoping to improve my back. Now, I'm cautious to spend more money. Any advise will be helpful. Hope this gives you a better picture of my problem.
Thanks.

[yannick35]

At the time of injury, I was very active in a number of things - MA, soccer, basketball and weight training. The day before i got hurt i was doing shoulder presses. the day i got injured i was doing MA - and we were doing circuit training, mainly ab exercises. then after that we did sparring and thats when it happened, as i spinned to kick. I won't say it the spinning kick itself that caused my injury, this was more like the final blow. I believe it was stress on my back from all the activities I was doing.

I did an MRI scan. and one doctor told me it was prolapse disc another told me it was hernia. I asked whats the difference between the 2, they both said it was the same things. LOL. so yeah, my injury is a herniated disc, mainly on the L5/S1. The L4/L5 is mildly affected. Initially it was pinching my nerves, but since I have stopped most acitivity i dont get that probelm any more.

I have tried chiropractic treatments, yoga, many different types of massages. they provided relief for me but , mostly it didn't work for me. And I have spent a lot of money hoping to improve my back. Now, I'm cautious to spend more money. Any advise will be helpful. Hope this gives you a better picture of my problem.
Thanks.

Hernia is the weakned outline of the disc, some people have weaker disc then others, i did squats with 505 pounds very bad forms and i could have really rupture my disc so i guess i was lucky.

At some point for a hernia you could look into surgery to have it removed, because most treatments wont solve that problem, some say with rest a hernia can cure iteself some others say different.

An inversion table works for me, i am not sure in your case if it would work or not but its it really decompresses the spine.

Might want to look into this, i know what you mean about spending so much money and how frustrating it can get i saw 2 mofo chiros for a year and a half that jerked me around real good.

There are also cortisol shots but they are just a band aid and will make you a lot worst in the long run.

[bewatermyfriend]

I would encourage you to keep looking for a good sports med doctor. I know you haven't had much look with that so far, but a good one should get you back where you need to be.

I am fortunate to live in a city where we have some of the top rated hospitals in the US. Recently, there was an article in the paper on chronic back pain. The local doctor interviewed stated that yoga practice has been found to do wonders for those who suffer from chronic back pain. Maybe this is something you could try or look into.

[elastigirl]

Last summer I herniated L4 L5, my doctor told me it would be 2-3 months before full recovery. I was totally healed in 4 weeks using the AlphaSonic. Ask your doctor about it or check it out www.alphasonic.com

[Spinmaster]

Have you had it x-rayed? I've had a herniated disk for several months now (think I got it when we were moving). We weren't sure what was causing the pain until I had an MRI done. It doesn't really affect my MA training a whole lot, but it really limits my stretching ability. :( It also acts up occasionally during BJJ, but usually changing position or taking a short break relieves it. Then there are those wonderful occasions when it hurts so bad I don't even want to stand up, but thankfully those are quite rare (only had it get that bad once or twice). The doctor says I can continue my normal activities, just to watch how they seem to affect me, work within my limitations, don't lift too much, etc. and hopefully it will heal on it's own in a year or so. He did offer surgery or steroids, but I really don't want to go through that, and he didn't think it was necessary anyways.

P.S. elastigirl, is your username from The Incredibles? I love that movie. :)

[elastigirl]

You are spot on Spinmaster. It's part of my occupation - injury recovery, increasing range of motion, flexibility, superstretching, etc. It looks like you've been through the ringer. It sounds like your doctor is fairly conservative which is refreshing. Steriod injections are temporary and surgery should be performed only when absolutely necessary. an inversion table might be beneficial for you as well. Dietarily, consume more greens and limit acidic foods to help with the inflammation. You'll want to get a handle on the inflammation. Chronic inflammation leads to scar tissue build up which leaves the area prone to reinjure.

[yannick35]

You are spot on Spinmaster. It's part of my occupation - injury recovery, increasing range of motion, flexibility, superstretching, etc. It looks like you've been through the ringer. It sounds like your doctor is fairly conservative which is refreshing. Steriod injections are temporary and surgery should be performed only when absolutely necessary. an inversion table might be beneficial for you as well. Dietarily, consume more greens and limit acidic foods to help with the inflammation. You'll want to get a handle on the inflammation. Chronic inflammation leads to scar tissue build up which leaves the area prone to reinjure.

What do you think about prolotherapy and pulse signal therapy i did both and am quit pleased.

Pulse signal therapy rebuilds the whole region muscle tendons and ligaments its a magnetic signal sent 19 inch into the affected zone, was develop by the germans.

Not sure if it would be any good for hernia tough.

[yannick35]

You are spot on Spinmaster. It's part of my occupation - injury recovery, increasing range of motion, flexibility, superstretching, etc. It looks like you've been through the ringer. It sounds like your doctor is fairly conservative which is refreshing. Steriod injections are temporary and surgery should be performed only when absolutely necessary. an inversion table might be beneficial for you as well. Dietarily, consume more greens and limit acidic foods to help with the inflammation. You'll want to get a handle on the inflammation. Chronic inflammation leads to scar tissue build up which leaves the area prone to reinjure.

What do you think about prolotherapy and pulse signal therapy i did both and am quit pleased.

Pulse signal therapy rebuilds the whole region muscle tendons and ligaments its a magnetic signal sent 19 inch into the affected zone, was develop by the germans.

Not sure if it would be any good for hernia tough.

Nice to see that a hernia can heal i was not sure since i read some studies saying yes and others saying no and surgery cannot be avoided.

[ramancity]

Hernia is the weakned outline of the disc, some people have weaker disc then others, i did squats with 505 pounds very bad forms and i could have really rupture my disc so i guess i was lucky.

At some point for a hernia you could look into surgery to have it removed, because most treatments wont solve that problem, some say with rest a hernia can cure iteself some others say different.

An inversion table works for me, i am not sure in your case if it would work or not but its it really decompresses the spine.

Might want to look into this, i know what you mean about spending so much money and how frustrating it can get i saw 2 mofo chiros for a year and a half that jerked me around real good.

There are also cortisol shots but they are just a band aid and will make you a lot worst in the long run.

Sorry for the late reply. and thanks for your input. I did borrow an inversion table from someone for a month. but i never overcame the dizzy feeling i'd get everytime i used it. so i stopped.

Anyway, at the moment i'm just building my core muscles and started taking animal flex. hopefully i get better. one doctor told me that i can only be 95% better at best and never 100% unless i go for surgery. but I'm not buying it. I'm gonna overcome this one way or another without surgery.

[yannick35]

I have been using animal flex for 4 months now i also been using a collagen supplement they both do wonders to rebuild the cartilage each in is own way.

I am also using animal omega EFA caps work fine too.

Note that you dont need to fully invert on the table, a 30 degree inversion is enough to remove the pressure on the spine.

I used to invert fully change to 60 degree at one point and that put way to much stress on the lower back muscles, that is just not good.

[Mr Punch]

Couple of points:

1) X-rays don't always pick up slipped discs. You can have perfectly clean-looking cavities between your vertebrae and the disc membrane can still herniate. X-rays are very limited.

2) So most people jump on the MRI thing: MRIs are great, but they often don't show semi-healed tissue, or badly healed tissue. If you have a chronic problem it is probably the case that the tissue has healed in a bad position, in which case ultrasound scans are better for picking it up (and cheaper if your parents are worried about the cost).

3) Check Dr Stuart McGill online, the world's foremost lower back specialist. he has written books, but again, if money is a problem you can find some of his exercise sequences online for free. I used a basic one of four exercises every day which soon sorted out my second or third recurring disc problem, and still use them nowadays after particularly heavy weights or after a hard day when I can feel it in my lower back.

4) McGill and others will tell you: about 80% of lower back pain comes from poor muscle structure in the hips and especially the hamstrings. Tight hamstrings are a huge problem, as they pull all the muscles the wrong way in the pelvic girdle and up your spine. Stretches and also heavy deadlifts are pretty much essential.

5) The anecdotal stuff about weights? Plus one. I haven't had a serious recurrence of my herniated disc problems since I started seriously weightlifting: the longest time without relapse since my initial injury. Make sure you have a good trainer and get down the gym. Deadlifts are excellent for your lower back and your hams and of course squats to balance the deads. There should be no pain from deads: if there is you're probably doing it wrong.

6) Elastigirl is spot on about diet too. There's pretty much no way I could increase my greens and precious little way I could increase my fresh fish oil intake... but I still take fish oil supplements on the odd day I don't eat oily fish (I live in Japan so I'm lucky to have ready access to fresh fish every day): and also amino acids to make sure my protein intake is doing what it should to rebuild. These have almost certainly helped with my joint problems (as I've tried and noted every combination of exercise with supplements over seven years or so I've noticed what makes a difference).

7) A good sports masseur or if you have access to one, a traditional Eastern anma (blind masseur in Japanese, dunno what it is in Chinese) can work wonders. I have an anma who is a flipping magician, I kid you not. He seems to mostly work my butt and hams for my lower back which again concurs with McGill et al.

8) At last I just found a good sports therapist clinic and am getting rehab (for a horrendous injury to my upper back/neck!) and I couldn't recommend it more.

9) As some have said you really need to work on your parents. These problems need long term care to prevent them from becoming really chronic...